Ivern should have his own jungle item

LegacyDAP·Mar 22, 2019·48 votes·15,055 views

Similar to Viktor's hexcore.

It's stupid that none of the jungle items work on him so he's forced to rush support items first.

Edit: It's stupid that none of the jungle items work on him. I don't really think it's that stupid that he rushes support items first, in fact it's part of his uniqueness. I think the wrong point got across.

Ivern, as a jungler, should have a jungle item that works with him. I think it would be cool if this item was specific to him since he's so unique with how he clears the jungle. No, I don't care if he builds support items first because they're better, but I do care that building jungle items on him is pretty terrible.

62 Comments

Frog goes mooMar 22, 201934 votes

It's not really a problem, you get to skip an entire item, rush mobis and then finish your support item. It's an advantage not a disadvantage. Meanwhile you stay healthy and full of mana due to the chalice from athene's. Are you new to ivern right now or just someone that saw an ivern on your team or enemy team play and wondered what they were doing?

EleshakaiMar 22, 20199 votes

I was gonna say... don't Iverns WANT support items?

LordGeovanniMar 22, 20192 votes

One play style does.

LegacyDAPMar 22, 20192 votes

I've played him a couple times, but I will admit I'm not an Ivern main nor have I played him recently.

Thematically, as a champion that's friends with all the jungle creatures, he'd have his own jungle item given to him by the mobs or something.

Balance wise, I think it's strange that it's better to build your jungle item last. I think Ivern should have his own specific jungle item that's more useful on him than any of the other 4. If he still builds it later that's totally fine, but there is no reason to build a jungle item on him once you hit level 18 from what I understand.

Frog goes mooMar 22, 20192 votes

{quoted}

I've played him a couple times, but I will admit I'm not an Ivern main nor have I played him recently.

Thematically, as a champion that's friends with all the jungle creatures, he'd have his own jungle item given to him by the mobs or something.

Balance wise, I think it's strange that it's better to build your jungle item last. I think Ivern should have his own specific jungle item that's more useful on him than any of the other 4. If he still builds it later that's totally fine, but there is no reason to build a jungle item on him once you hit level 18 from what I understand.

That's the thing. You don't finish your item. For some reason whichever rioter made the recommendations for ivern, I'm guessing don't play him or plays him sparingly. No high ranked ivern main finishes the jungle item. It's usually sold at or around level 14-15. Many will then buy either an ap item to finish or another support/tank item. Another thing is that the jungle item doesn't really give any extra stats. You get the same amount of exp you would with a finished jungle item as you would the starting item. The only thing you get is either the slow from the blue smite or the damage reduction and dueling power from red. And since ivern already has so much cc, blue smite isn't really that useful and since he can't really duel anyone without the help of another teamate, red smite also doesn't work. That's why it doesn't really matter if he builds it or not.

MarshbouyMar 22, 20198 votes

Why should a supportive jungler not rush support items?

BlackEtherianMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Why should a supportive jungler not rush support items?

Thank you, finally an intellectual on this point.

MarshbouyMar 22, 20193 votes

IvernGreenFather made a better comment than I, but this whole post reeks of "I don't understand Ivern at all, but I'm going to comment on his balance and kit anyways."

LegacyDAPMar 22, 20197 votes

Why should a support jungler not have a support jungler item?

When did I ever say that this item would NOT be a support item?

MarshbouyMar 22, 20192 votes

So what's the issue?

LegacyDAPMar 22, 20194 votes

I never said it was an issue. It's a suggestion.

I think Ivern should build/have a jungle item that fits him. I think thematically it'd be cool if he had his own.

Even if I am a guy like this: "I don't understand Ivern at all, but I'm going to comment on his balance and kit anyways." There was literally nothing wrong with my suggestion in the slightest.

You have a really smug way of typing/arguing and I just want you to know it makes you seem like a douche.

BlackEtherianMar 25, 20191 votes

{quoted}

IvernGreenFather made a better comment than I, but this whole post reeks of "I don't understand Ivern at all, but I'm going to comment on his balance and kit anyways."

I agree, like is he supposed to be a machine gun that deletes people after 3 items? Did I miss the memo or...

Warlord RhinarkMar 22, 20197 votes

Branch of the God-Willow:

+100% Base Health Regen while in Jungle or River.
+100% Base Mana Regen while in Jungle or River.
UNIQUE PASSIVE - Monster Savior: Freeing large or epic monsters grants +50 bonus experience, and gain +50 bonus experience for each level the monster is higher than you. The first large monster freed grants +120 bonus experience. If your gold from minions is greater than half your gold from monsters, lane minion kills will grant 10 less gold.
~~ UNIQUE PASSIVE: Freeing a Jungle Camp instantly restores 10% missing health & mana and doubles the regen to 200% for 10 seconds.~~
Limited to 1 Jungle or Gold income item.

And then you can upgrade the Branch to either Chilling Smite or Challenging Smite, and then further upgraded with Enchantments.

Edit: Removed the Unique Passive because it might be too strong.

Frog goes mooMar 22, 20195 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAHcvnd8,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-03-22T14:45:53.578+0000)

Branch of the God-Willow:

+100% Base Health Regen while in Jungle or River.

+100% Base Mana Regen while in Jungle or River.

UNIQUE PASSIVE - Monster Savior: Freeing large or epic monsters grants +50 bonus experience, and gain +50 bonus experience for each level the monster is higher than you. The first large monster freed grants +120 bonus experience. If your gold from minions is greater than half your gold from monsters, lane minion kills will grant 10 less gold.

UNIQUE PASSIVE: Freeing a Jungle Camp instantly restores 10% missing health & mana and doubles the regen to 200% for 10 seconds.

Limited to 1 Jungle or Gold income item.

And then you can upgrade the Branch to either Chilling Smite or Challenging Smite, and then further upgraded with Enchantments.

That would literally make him uncounterable. One of ivern's only weaknesses as a champion that doesn't have to farm and can pretty much gank the entirety of the game is the fact that he can be invaded earlier in the game when he uses much more health and mana to use his passive. This item kind of covers up that weakness and would most definitely make him overpowered.

Warlord RhinarkMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

That would literally make him uncounterable. One of ivern's only weaknesses as a champion that doesn't have to farm and can pretty much gank the entirety of the game is the fact that he can be invaded earlier in the game when he uses much more health and mana to use his passive. This item kind of covers up that weakness and would most definitely make him overpowered.

Good point.

Would removing the Unique Passive (the one that restores health and mana instantly) solve the problem?

As in, the only benefit he gets from the item is increase health and mana regen in the Jungle, and more EXP?

Z3SleeperMar 22, 20192 votes

Make it build out of Talisman first, so his first clear isn't nutty strong. Basically it would be a stalker/skirmisher

50g + item 1006 + item 1004 + item 1039 (total 1000g), equal to stalker's/skirmisher's cost.

You could even make it item 3114 + item 1039 or item 3801 + .

Also remove the instant restore and make it health over 10 or something. Sounds obnoxiously strong if someone is trying to kill him and he smites a camp with passive for smite heal + 10% missing health.

Warlord RhinarkMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Make it build out of Talisman first, so his first clear isn't nutty strong. Basically it would be a stalker/skirmisher

50g + + + (total 1000g), equal to stalker's/skirmisher's cost.

You could even make it + or + .

Since it is supposed to be a "Viktor-esque" item, I imagined him to start with it in his inventory by default, just like how Viktor starts with his Hex Core by default.

Therefore, it would be completely free and not build out of anything, but also not give anything beyond base health regen and base health regen that only triggers in the Jungle, and then bonus EXP.

It would then cost 1000 Gold to upgrade it to either Chilling Smite or Challenging Smite (without any other benefit), and then further into Enchantments.

Also remove the instant restore and make it health over 10 or something. Sounds obnoxiously strong if someone is trying to kill him and he smites a camp for smite heal + 10% missing health.

Removed it. Now the only thing the item gives is more base health regen, base mana regen, and EXP.

Z3SleeperMar 22, 20193 votes

The problem is it being straight better than Talisman, which he is already balanced around.

I can see it being a replacement to the Machete side of things (thus the upgrade and not a starter), but not the Talisman side where this concept is a straight buff.

That essentially means asking for early game Ivern nerfs to compensate.

Warlord RhinarkMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

The problem is it being straight better than Talisman, which he is already balanced around.

I can see it being a replacement to the Machete side of things (thus the upgrade and not a starter), but not the Talisman side where this concept is a straight buff.

That essentially means asking for early game Ivern nerfs to compensate.

It's only "straight better" than Talisman in the sense that it grants health regen, a bit more mana regen, and it's free.

Ivern is unable to make use of the damaging part of the Tooth passive of Hunter's Talisman, so these increased stats is to make up for that.

Z3SleeperMar 22, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAHcvnd8,comment-id=00060002000000000000,timestamp=2019-03-22T17:27:00.098+0000)

It's only "straight better" than Talisman in the sense that it grants health regen, a bit more mana regen, and it's free.

Yes he can't make use of Tooth. But Ivern is balanced around not being able to make use of Tooth in his Talisman. So having that health regen and a bit more mana regen on a free item is something his current early game is not balanced around. Thus his base power (early levels) will be nerfed to compensate.

No matter how small a buff in the form of QoL, it must be matched with a compensation nerf, unless it's a dark sunny day with clear skies and dark clouds such as January 9th where we say f@#$ it and overbuff a champion who isn't even underperforming.

KFCeytronMar 22, 20194 votes

Why is this a problem?

huhndogMar 22, 20194 votes

Trackers Knife. Makes you more like a support and provide more vision

Mast3rShakeMar 22, 20196 votes

that has been removed from the game forever ago

huhndogMar 22, 201910 votes

im saying give it to him specifically because hes a support jungler

Anu3isIIMar 22, 20191 votes

But that would give him way too much vision control...

WAZZZUP500Mar 22, 20192 votes

yeah but supports get 4 free wards with a completed item, ivern is a support who got lost in the jungle. I think he should have vision control.

Anu3isIIMar 22, 20192 votes

All I want to say is that this change will most probably lead to some nerfs elsewhere because it has a huge impact.

RAKCUSMar 22, 20193 votes

Good idea! But Ivern's build Path is already unique to himself, plus it seems to work so its not definitely necessary.

NhifuMar 22, 20193 votes

Try glacial augment and item 3030

Awesome on him

ButterwoodMar 22, 20193 votes

You take one jungle item for mana regen, never upgrade it and end up trading it in mid game. I don't see the issue.

RekSai CoffeeCoMar 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

You take one jungle item for mana regen, never upgrade it and end up trading it in mid game. I don't see the issue.

Monster hunter maybe?

14daysuspensionkMar 22, 20193 votes

I buildt AP on him.

item 1402 item 3027 item 3742 item 3065 item 3102 item 3026

TotalJerkMar 22, 20192 votes

Why are you even picking Ivern if you're gonna not buy support items on him? His whole shtick is being a support jungler. That's like picking Zed and going tank.

Chembaron YamadaMar 22, 20193 votes

Eh, this comparison is not that true.

At least building AP increases Iverns damage and shield. Tank Zed literally gets nothing....

TotalJerkMar 23, 20191 votes

Ivern's scalings suck, though. He's much better off building for raw utility.

DaCurtisMar 23, 20192 votes

His scalings suck? What. He literally has 70% and 80% scalings.

TotalJerkMar 22, 20192 votes

It's not that none of the items work on him, it's that support items are so much better on him that he ignores the jungle item. It's like how Hecarim rushes Triforce first before his jungle item because its just that good on him.

DrippyBrownHoleMar 22, 20192 votes

The item should be a basketball because he's a DUNKMASTER OHHHHHH

The Highest NoonMar 22, 20192 votes

Why don't any of the jungle items work on him?

SanKakUMar 24, 20192 votes

Why not give us a healing smite so we can have supports in the jungle?

WublerdudeMar 24, 20192 votes

what about a pink smite, one that heals ally champions? that could be interesting

Linna ExcelMar 22, 20191 votes

Ivern should just be reworked into the support role.

Salvor HardınMar 22, 20195 votes

Pyke should just be reworked into the Midlaner role. [slayer-jinx-wink]

Chembaron YamadaMar 22, 20194 votes

Why tho?

I think it is pretty fun that Riot actively tries to bring "uncommon" subclasses to role, like Ivern as an enchanter/catcher jungler and Pyke as an assassin support. I want them to do more stuff like this and not change these champions to fall into the same role like all the other members of their subclass.

It brings diversity to the game.

Linna ExcelMar 22, 20191 votes

Wrong type of support for jungle IMO. While he's got a little CC and the shield, I think someone who was more focused on CC would have been a better option for the role. If his E was a stun instead of a shield, I think his kit would have filled the jungler and CC support roles better.

Chembaron YamadaMar 22, 20192 votes

I don't think so, honestly.

He has 2 hard CCs in his kit with Q and R, then additionally a slow on E. That's enough CC in my opinion. And the dash for allies on his Q is a pretty strong ganking tool.

LordGeovanniMar 22, 20191 votes

Yeah but his Q is slow as hell and mid ranged unless standing in a bush. And his R takes so long to get out start hitting get to 3 stacks then the knock up has additional delay on it. his entire kits cc is harder than landing Arhi Charm and arhi mains on the boards love to stress how they need their charm.