Revert Mordekaiser's changes and let Colt "Ezreal" Hallam do it

LegacyDAP·Oct 17, 2015·211 votes·5,354 views

He's the guy who reworked Sion. I'm sure he can make Mordekaiser amazing while still keeping his distinguishable character unique.

82 Comments

Malix FarwinOct 17, 201520 votes

As long as it is not CertainlyT then i am sure it would be better then what we have now. At the very least i think he should only stick to champion creations and not reworks.

SaiannaOct 17, 201513 votes

You sure?

Be careful, Stashu lurks in the shadows~~

Bouffon dAnglaisOct 17, 201515 votes

Stashu, spare us! I have no more E keys left!

AxxukaOct 18, 20158 votes

{quoted}

You sure?

Be careful, Stashu lurks in the shadows~~

Don't bring that demon Here, after destroying Cassiopeia he sent Fiora Rework on us.

TurquoiseYoshiOct 17, 201510 votes

To be fair, Sion was a complete re-imagining of that champion. Morde was supposed to be a small-ish rework to give him an extra niche he could fill.

TengrichanOct 17, 20155 votes

Except Riot said before that they want to give Morde a Sion scale rework then decided to create this abomination instead with shitty VFX.

Daedalus871Oct 17, 20159 votes

I want to point out that the only thing that was kept from Prework Sion was the shield, but even that had some pretty major changes.

And while I think that starting from the ground up is the way to go on Mordekaiser, I'm not sure what his mains would say.

Edit: Was counting the infinite scaling health as part of Sion's shield.

MordepoolOct 17, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I want to point out that the only thing that was kept from Prework Sion was the shield, but even that had some pretty major changes.

And while I think that starting from the ground up is the way to go on Mordekaiser, I'm not sure what his mains would say.

S1 Mordekaiser Main. And I approve this Message

LegacyDAPOct 17, 20154 votes

I'm sure with creative thoughts and approval of the community they could make a Mordekaiser that not only Season 1 mains would like but everyone would.

xl Kirito lxOct 17, 20154 votes

The "mains" would complain about any changes, regardless of what they were.

MordepoolOct 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q0gTd96w,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:44:23.613+0000)

The "mains" would complain about any changes, regardless of what they were.

Less so if they were in the correct direction

BiffoloOct 18, 20151 votes

All the skarner "mains" bitched he was ruined and garbage. Riot actually caved in and buffed him on pbe. And again. And look how fucking well that turned out.

MordepoolOct 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

All the skarner "mains" bitched he was ruined and garbage. Riot actually caved in and buffed him on pbe. And again. And look how fucking well that turned out.

Considering riots proper assessment and treatment of the situation. Overbuff. Hot fix nerf. I'd say it turned out fine

BiffoloOct 19, 20151 votes

Coming out with a 68% win rate to the point where he needs the hotfix is a problem. It's why riot shouldn't listen to the community for balance reasons, that just showed how braindead the general populous is.

MordepoolOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Coming out with a 68% win rate to the point where he needs the hotfix is a problem. It's why riot shouldn't listen to the community for balance reasons, that just showed how braindead the general populous is.

PBE testers are a small group who are supposed to provide relevant feedback about the champion. But the major problem is everyone wants to play with the new champions. So with the Juggernaut's Skarner may have appeared weak in a large group of games featuring a small pool of champions 3 of which are now considered op

So that doesn't have any implications that the general populace is braindead. Granted you could use almost any evidence to get an agreement from me what with the troll population and other problems

BiffoloOct 19, 20151 votes

90% on every board flipped shit, even those who weren't on PBE. Yea, that's still a small percentage and whatever, but that's the only group that is vocal, so that is all we can go by.

MordepoolOct 19, 20151 votes

{quoted}

90% on every board flipped shit, even those who weren't on PBE. Yea, that's still a small percentage and whatever, but that's the only group that is vocal, so that is all we can go by.

We can only hope they notixed

RedCycloneOct 17, 20157 votes

I miss the @Ezreal megathread

LuciferOct 18, 20156 votes

TBH Ezreal is probably the best champion designer in the game. He's done an amazing job making champions feel balanced to play AS and AGAINST. It's actually really cool this guy has been so good at his job for as long as he's been at Riot. Not all of his champions are perfect, but every single one of them has some kind of trade off.

Hasztalan2Oct 17, 20151 votes

Sion's rework was an utter garbage as well.

Only thing which kept him alive was the stupid 10% max hp dmg on the shield (same as gp's bs 50% arp on his barrels which keeps a terrible rework on surface for now) but asap theese points g(e)ot nerfed Sion (and gp too will) disappeared into oblivion.

Prospector PeteOct 17, 2015102 votes

Sion's rework was probably one of the best reworks ever made, and maybe even the best champion design in the game.

ReazaleOct 17, 201514 votes

I wouldnt go as far as "best champion design in game" as that has a lot more to do whit tastes, but he is indeed one of the best(if not the best) rework so far

KeevalroyOct 17, 201530 votes

I would say he's one of the healthiest in the game.

NarasimhaOct 17, 20151 votes

He's 'healthy' because it's so easy to make him useless. Kind of sad that's the standard, really.

KeevalroyOct 17, 201522 votes

So many ways to make him useless = abundant meaningful counterplay options.

I'd call that healthy.

TheFPSPowerOct 17, 20156 votes

{quoted}

I would say he's one of the healthiest in the game.

I call that one Thresh

KeevalroyOct 18, 201514 votes

{quoted}

I call that one Thresh

I hope you're joking. You want to call one of the most overloaded, toxic, overbearing, overpowered supports in the game healthy? What are you smoking? Are you the balance team's supplier?

TheFPSPowerOct 18, 20159 votes

{quoted}

I hope you're joking. You want to call one of the most overloaded, toxic, overbearing, overpowered supports in the game healthy? What are you smoking? Are you the balance team's supplier?

I only see you using other people's arguments, how about make your own? Thresh is one of the most balanced supports available, it requires skill, practice and thought, it is not for no reason that his winrate is under 50% all the time, but once you see a thresh main you get wrecked by him. He can't do anything alone, he can do alot in team, he can't escape alone but he can save others from dying. Play him, main him and then come back to tell me the experience.

KeevalroyOct 18, 201512 votes

You really are defending him...

Alright, I HAVE played him, I abused him twice to get gold in season 4 and then this season because there are no drawbacks whatsoever to picking him.

He has EVERYTHING in his kit. He is the PERFECT support. "Oh but he doesn't have sustain!" Buy Relic. Problem solved. He now possesses an immobilizing lockdown with a lowered cooldown on champion contact, a get out of jail free card for your allies on a low cooldown that also shields, an AoE displacement knockup that also slows AND gives a bonus attack ratio, an AoE borderline stun on contact for zone control and lockdown, in addition to having free armor and AP from collected souls.

That leaves sustain as the ONLY thing he doesn't have...and you can buy Relic. He fits into every team comp, can be picked into any enemy team, and will always be relevant no matter how many nerfs he receives because his kit is fundamentally broken with the inclusion of so much unnecessary shit tacked onto it for no reason.

AdanimOct 18, 20157 votes

{quoted}

You really are defending him...

Alright, I HAVE played him, I abused him twice to get gold in season 4 and then this season because there are no drawbacks whatsoever to picking him.

He has EVERYTHING in his kit. He is the PERFECT support. "Oh but he doesn't have sustain!" Buy Relic. Problem solved. He now possesses an immobilizing lockdown with a lowered cooldown on champion contact, a get out of jail free card for your allies on a low cooldown that also shields, an AoE displacement knockup that also slows AND gives a bonus attack ratio, an AoE borderline stun on contact for zone control and lockdown, in addition to having free armor and AP from collected souls.

That leaves sustain as the ONLY thing he doesn't have...and you can buy Relic. He fits into every team comp, can be picked into any enemy team, and will always be relevant no matter how many nerfs he receives because his kit is fundamentally broken with the inclusion of so much unnecessary shit tacked onto it for no reason.

You don't seem to understand the concept of "someone will always be stronger". Thresh is a strong support, yes. Probably the strongest in the game. But he isn't overpowered. He is only the strongest by a small margin (I do believe Braum and Alistar are right next to him in terms of power). I made a comment on Thresh on the boards a month ago in terms of his power compared to every other support, and it went like this:

"Thresh is the Jack-of-all-Trades support. He does a bit of everything and does it all well, but he doesn't have anything that he himself does better than any other support other than his lantern.

Displacement? Alistar Blitzcrank Nautilus are better at that. Lock down? Alistar Braum Leona TahmKench are better at that. He has no sustain without item 3302 , and even then it isn't nearly as good as Bard Nami Sona Soraka Taric . Shield? Karma Janna Lulu all have better shields. Peel? Alistar Bard Braum Janna Lulu can all peel better than Thresh can. And the list goes on. He is strong, yes, but he does not need nerfs. The last couple to his lantern and to his ult were enough to put him in a solid spot.

Also, to point out, if you nerf Thresh to a point where he isn't that strong anymore, another support will take his spot and be "the strongest", and then people will cry for nerfs for them, and the cycle will continue. Supports are in a great spot now, no need for changes at this time."

Thresh isn't overloaded. He is really really balanced. The only thing that I would ever change, if anything at all because he is really solid right now, would be the passive damage on Flay. I would reduce it a little bit, because it gives him a lot of lane power. However, even I wouldn't change that since it is almost meaningless late game. And that's another thing. Thresh's late game is kinda poor compared to his lanning phase. He is like Blitzcrank in that his design is to win the lane and showball the team by roaring out of the bot lane. Early-mid game, a hook means death. Late game, a hook means almost nothing if the other team is positioned correctly (if they are positioned poorly, that's on them, not on Thresh being "OP") because you will hit the tanks, and going in on the tanks is stupid unless you can turn that into killing the carries, which is difficult in its own right.

I'm getting tired of people senselessly complaining about meaningless things on the boards. And you, Keevalroy, have a history of complaining. I have to assume that you only complain instead of changing strategies in-game and working around difficult decisions, because the people that do aren't complaining on the boards, and they have nothing to complain about.

ShatoSummonerOct 19, 20151 votes

They could nerf the damage on his e, but lets just all be honest and say that AD thresh is fun as hell (if unviable).

Midder ScrayOct 19, 20151 votes

Thresh annoys the shit out of me, but I agree with you. That was really well said, people are always gonna be bitching about something, and it mostly starts because people don't know how to play against a champion or get annoyed by them so they start complaining about it and it's so dumb

People need to understand that "annoying" and "overpowered" aren't the same thing

sp441Oct 18, 20152 votes

The problem isn't that Thresh is easymode or too powerful, it's that he's just too good at too much shit, everything that a support can do, he can do too, and sometimes he can do better, with the exception of healing. He's choking pick diversity just because there's never a situation in which he's not an optimal pick.

aura trifireOct 18, 20151 votes

Disengage comp: janna. Soraka is a good generic pick too... Protect ADC comp, braum, janna, morgana, etc. knock up comp: malphite, naut, etc. I'd say maybe leona is slightly UP, but there is pick diversity with supports (nami needs a buff tho).

Troll for TrumpOct 17, 20152 votes

He's really healthy, and the ideas were great, but it came out as a really bad champ. Morde's rework had both shtty ideas and bad execution. And by bad execution, I mean making the numbers too damn high, and the idea of multiplative damage and melee ADC bot lane is shtty.

CertainlyT does have his good share of ideas and designs. Although kalista, yas, and dar are all broken champs, they are still fun to play, and yas and kalista are really popular champs, which are unique champs in LoL.

Zenthon PrimeOct 17, 201516 votes

Sion wasn't a bad champ when he came out. Riot went overboard on nerfs in early-mid Season 5 because of Cinderhulk and the Tank Meta.

Hyrum GraffOct 18, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Sion wasn't a bad champ when he came out. Riot went overboard on nerfs in early-mid Season 5 because of Cinderhulk and the Tank Meta.

tbh sion is still plenty strong.

LegacyDAPOct 18, 20151 votes

Except not really because his shield is awful and he gets interrupted on nearly everything. Besides his ult.

Hyrum GraffOct 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Except not really because his shield is awful and he gets interrupted on nearly everything. Besides his ult.

His shield is the only place that could use buffs, and very small ones at that.

His ult is fairly easily dodged if your opponent is smart, but not if you flash first, and even if you completely miss, it still serves its purpose as a near-100%-reliable engage. Few champions have this ability (maybe rammus? he needs more time to charge up though).

His E is not interruptable. It's pretty reliable and impactful.

If your Q is interrupted, it goes on a lowered cooldown. If the enemy is blowing CC on the tank, you're doing it right.

Out of curiosity, how do you build him? I usually go titanic + tank. Sometimes another bruiser item situationally. Titanic gives you absolutely insane amounts of waveclear and pretty decent damage in teamfights, too (plus, makes your passive HURT, and you can use the active during your passive).

Or you can go full cheezeballs (not in ranked) and build pure juggernaut items on him. Like: item 3748 item 3156 item 3022 item 3111 item 3053 item 3083 item 2138 + + Ult. Hillarity ensues.

48983507DEL1Oct 17, 20152 votes

Xerath had a pretty good rework as well. Both of them fit their concepts, gameplay, and overall theme better than their original kits did, which is so much more than anyone can say for Modekaiser.

LudovicoOct 18, 20152 votes

Xerath? ... item 3070

After over 200 ranked games in season 3 (not counting the normals), I played him about 30 times up today... Please don´t remind me that he is still in the game, in his generic way, without character item 3070 .

ShatoSummonerOct 19, 20151 votes

Xerath was a bit overbearing before his rework though. He did have clear counters in that he was/is an immobile sniper, but his locus of power gave him way too much magic penetration, especially combined with people rushing void staff on him. It meant there was very little you could build against him.

LegacyDAPOct 17, 201520 votes

How? Not only did his kit seem amazing to him and kept him fun and interesting, but they made him look like an actual dead juggernaut instead of Shamrock Malphite. Sion's rework was probably the best rework yet. If anything the Mordekaiser mains deserve "Ezreal" to remake Mordekaiser after all the stuff CertainlyT did to them.

Slamurai JackOct 17, 20151 votes

You want the guy who designed Vladimir Teemo Kassadin to redesign Morde? Are you sure?

LegacyDAPOct 17, 20157 votes

Yes. I do.

ChaosThiefOct 17, 20157 votes

They're annoying, yes. But at least, they aren't overloaded with passives and actives.

Slamurai JackOct 17, 20153 votes

You're right, they just have extremely linear and low counterplay kits instead. That's so much better.

LegacyDAPOct 17, 20156 votes

No counterplay. Right because upgrading sweeping lens for Teemo isn't counterplay. Because getting ignite and morellonomicon for vlad isn't counterplay. Because Kassadin is really weak early and easy to shut down is no counterplay.

Slamurai JackOct 17, 20151 votes

Are you really arguing in defense of Vlad, the champion Riot themselves admitted never should have been released?

Dar RaksadaOct 17, 201510 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Q0gTd96w,comment-id=00040001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T22:37:34.652+0000)

Are you really arguing in defense of Vlad, the champion Riot themselves admitted never should have been released?

yet people still prefer vlad over CertainlyT's work.