Right now she's the most nerfed champion in ARAM along with Ziggs and she is getting nerfed more.
Tip: If you nerf the ADCs (strongest class in ARAM), Sona's win rate will also decrease.
The team with more ADCs usually wins the game.
Ricje9 votesBuffing/nerfing individual champions is ridiculous in the first place. Take a look at Akali and Leblanc for example. "But they have a lower winrate!" Well, often it has to do with team comps and a player's skill. By giving them insane damage done & damage reduction buffs these 2 are now destroying squishies by pressing 2 buttons if played by a player that's familiar with them. Not our fault that we get dodgy MMR ratings (almost always placed with, and against, platinums and diamonds while friends get silver and gold)
The recent nerf to 
's shield was questionable as well because other champions with stronger shielding capabilities (
for example) were left untouched.
I've made a lengthy feedback response to Mortdog's post over a month ago but as usual, they don't listen to feedback of their players (even those who only play ARAM don't get heard when it comes to ARAM-specific feedback. Go figure) because Riot thinks they know best. Sorry Riot but I highly doubt that anyone on your balance team has played close to 10% of the games of an ARAM player (Sitting at over 9,000 games currently including pre-queue).
Unfortunately, their way of thinking will ruin ARAM in the long run if they keep up with it. It won't be "ARAM" anymore then but "ABAD" (All "Balanced" All Deadly).
If they want to try and balance it then they need to look at the bigger picture. Adjusting numbers on specific champions will not help. They need to stop balancing around win percentages (because RNG on team comps is also a factor) and think what the reason behind those percentages could be.
wolvius1 votesBuffing/nerfing individual champions is ridiculous in the first place. Take a look at Akali and Leblanc for example. "But they have a lower winrate!" Well, often it has to do with team comps and a player's skill. By giving them insane damage done & damage reduction buffs these 2 are now destroying squishies by pressing 2 buttons if played by a player that's familiar with them. Not our fault that we get dodgy MMR ratings (almost always placed with, and against, platinums and diamonds while friends get silver and gold)
The recent nerf to
I've made a lengthy feedback response to Mortdog's post over a month ago but as usual, they don't listen to feedback of their players (even those who only play ARAM don't get heard when it comes to ARAM-specific feedback. Go figure) because Riot thinks they know best. Sorry Riot but I highly doubt that anyone on your balance team has played close to 10% of the games of an ARAM player (Sitting at over 9,000 games currently including pre-queue).
Unfortunately, their way of thinking will ruin ARAM in the long run if they keep up with it. It won't be "ARAM" anymore then but "ABAD" (All "Balanced" All Deadly).
If they want to try and balance it then they need to look at the bigger picture. Adjusting numbers on specific champions will not help. They need to stop balancing around win percentages (because RNG on team comps is also a factor) and think what the reason behind those percentages could be.
I would add Eve to that list (15% damage boost ), if your team doesn't play completely incompetent before level 6 you can legit nuke someone before they can react. With 
I barely need the ult to kill someone before they land an auto........Cant say it isn't satisfying to nuke a lethality vaarus and escape before 
can press W.
Yeah this balance of numbers wont work when things like veigir will always be powerful as long as his E covers the whole width of the lane. _As well as kill builds such as AP sion, full AP maokai and a stacked AD nasus. _
Ricje1 votesEvelynn is pretty strong indeed. Played with, and against, Evelynn several times over the last week and each time she had no problem whatsoever insta-gibbing squishies (ADCs and APCs) even going as far as to insta-gib them in a 1v2 or 1v3 while surviving through her ultimate.
AbiwonKenabi2 votesIt shows how clueless they are when they don't touch any tanks except Maokai (who builds AP half the time) and they BUFFED Sejuani. Since you have more experience than me, tell me, was Sejuani really struggling in ARAM? I always thought she was a solid tank for most comps, doing better in comps with a melee ally or two.
Or most enchanters being good, but they only nerf a few.
Or ADCs going mostly untouched unless they were poke-focused.
Poke was the only reason these classes weren't running rampant, except for tanks, I think they were stronger than people were giving credit for even before balancing.
HP Crookshanks3 votesI agree that they are clueless about ARAM. They thought 
(or any other tank that supposed to build tank items) was weak because of her low win rate but actually her win rate was low because some people built her AP.
Sir Saltarin6 votesWow what an unaccurate comment
https://lolalytics.com/aram/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Sejuani/
Literally not even a single AP items shows up on her 11 more popular items on ARAM and you want me to believe that her winrate is bad because ppl play her AP too much ?
Sure that some ppl build her wrong but that goes for all champions and it's not like Sejuani is a special case in which so many ppl build her wrong
Thanks godness the Gameplay Boards are trash that no one cares about and no rioter comes to this place to talk about balance since they acknowledge how meme this place is
HP Crookshanks3 votesWow what an inaccurate comment
That link only shows platinum+ players who got a brain to build her tank items but most ARAM players' ranks are lower than platinum. Notice how her win rate is much lower when she builds AP items which becomes more common as the rank gets lower.
Since ARAM matchmaking is terrible they can't balance champions based on rank.
Sightless661 votesThat link only shows platinum+ players who got a brain to build her tank items but most ARAM players' ranks are lower than platinum.
The winrate from the same site is also plat+, and it's crap. So, if these plat+ players have a brain and aren't ever buying AP, and those same plat+ players are losing, then clearly this isn't actually a case of bad data and is really a case of a champion who is shittier in ARAM than on Summoner's Rift.
Ricje3 votesSejuani has always been an acceptable pick although in a lot of cases she'd need the help of DPS champions (against CC comps for example). In terms of engaging and being a nuisance for the other team however she's pretty strong. The only time she'd be struggling is against disengage comps (disengage comp = comp with a lot of CC in the forms of slows, knocks and roots) since she can only "block" the first hit. Lux and Zyra are pretty strong against her since they can both root more than 1 enemy and also have slows (Lux undetonated E, Zyra's E+W).
The 900 unit 15% damage nerf was acceptable for long range pokes (Heimerdinger W, Ezreal Q, Varus Q, Xerath Q, Nidalee Q, Kai'Sa W, Ziggs Q, Morgana Q, Lux Q+E etcetera) and helped short ranged range champions (ADCs reliant on AA's and short ranged APCs) and melee champions survive (even though the +15% Nidalee and 15% Kai'Sa (12% now, was 15% initially IIRC) buffs were strange since their poke damage reduction from the unit range nerf was negated) and allowed them to get in there and kill stuff. Individual champion buffs however are not. As I mentioned previously: Some champions are dealing ridiculous amounts of burst damage now as a result offering little to no counterplay (LeBlanc getting in there and instantly killing someone after which she can dash back immediately, Akali getting in there and instantly chunking someone for 50-70% of their health with just E Q Gunblade while being able to survive through her W before killing someone off etcetera).
I've already made a lengthy feedback post a month ago suggesting they make changes elsewhere (more global rather than individual). Increasing damage on individual champions however is not the way to go. Ever since they applied these "balance" changes I've noticed that champions such as Sona are so squishy that they literally drop dead after 3 hits.
Champion buffs/nerfs through patches are also directly added to ARAM so if a champion gets a change/rework and they have an ARAM-specific buff added then they could spell trouble (such as Aatrox for example. Seen Aatrox 1v4 the other team and surviving easily multiple times before they made changes to his ultimate).
AbiwonKenabi2 votesThe 900 unit 15% damage nerf was acceptable for long range pokes (Heimerdinger W, Ezreal Q, Varus Q, Xerath Q, Nidalee Q, Kai'Sa W, Ziggs Q, Morgana Q, Lux Q+E etcetera) and helped short ranged range champions (ADCs reliant on AA's and short ranged APCs) and melee champions survive (even though the +15% Nidalee and 15% Kai'Sa (12% now, was 15% initially IIRC) buffs were strange since their poke damage reduction from the unit range nerf was negated) and allowed them to get in there and kill stuff. Individual champion buffs however are not.
This was my feeling, too. Poke was maybe a little too good, especially against Champions who are otherwise fine in ARAM but were struggling to dodge all that long range damage and survive. But the flat buffs/nerfs were a little much. Champs like Lux or Ziggs can feel terrible now, while someone like LeBlanc is chunking them. LB wasn't even that BAD before. I don't think there were many Champions that were truly BAD, and even the ones that were not good could just be rerolled away. If they are going to balance like this, it needs to be little taps, not "Sona takes more damage" "Akali deals more damage" "oh who woulda thunk? Sona is blowing up" etc.
Sir Saltarin2 votesAnd yet Lux and Ziggs still sit among the champs with higher winrate and pickrate and LB is on the bottom with just 5 champs being worse than her
https://lolalytics.com/aram/worldwide/platinum/plus/grid/
The ARAM crew on the Gameplay Boards really is as awesome as the SR Gameplay Boards analysis I see
AbiwonKenabi2 votes"Pickrate" means very little when you only get 2 potential rerolls a match each. Otherwise a Champ is randomly chosen for you.
Winrate has always been wonky on ARAM as well. Winrates will never be 50% or even close to on ARAM, due to the random nature of the comps.
Don't be so mean just because we are discussing.
Sir Saltarin2 votesPickrate matter, that's why the most played champ, Ezreal, has 13% pickrate and the lowest pickrates dont even reach the 2%, because those champs are the ones you literally only play if you are left out of options.
Winrates on ARAM are not wonky, and by how unbalanced this game mode is the gab between good champs and bad champs is always bigger than on normal 5c5
You want to believe that is just luck that Sona has 65% winrate and Rek Sai 46%
Go ahead, but you would be wrong
Edit: I'm mad by default on the Gameplay Boards, it's nothing personal against you
AbiwonKenabi1 votesI'm not saying Sona isn't strong, I'm saying there are other, stronger factors involved. An inexperienced Sona will still contribute to an ARAM. Winrate is only one metric to go by and it is even less consistent on ARAM than it is on SR.
Sona excels at team fighting (which ARAM is basically one big teamfight), so her contribution to ARAM is strong. Meanwhile, Rek'Sai is a jungler, and is actually quite strong at the moment...but since there's no jungle and no skirmishing on SR, she's a little bit weaker.
And yeah, luck IS a factor, as it is in every game of League. It just so happens that luck plays a very large role in ARAM. I just had a game where our comp was decent, all Champions that typically perform well in ARAM, but we had basically no hard CC and Irelia rolled over our squishies. That was mostly luck based.
Also, where are you getting these winrates anyways? How accurate could they be, considering I'm sure sites that provide them aren't focused on alternate modes? Isn't player perception also a factor?
Sir Saltarin1 votesLuck afects games individually.
The patterns shown among all the games played is not luck, it's useful data to understand which champs are strong and which ones weak.
I get the stats...from the website that I linked to you maybe?
Lolalytics has a part for ARAM stats, it's really useful.
I think that you saying that champs as Lux and Ziggs feeling terrible to play is a good example of talking about feelings and not balance because they are not weak by any means on ARAM.
And no, Rek Sai isn't "a bit weaker", she's just fucking horrible on ARAM why are you afraid of saying it, and for the same reason why she sucks other champs are broken, being Sona the strongest champ on ARAM due to all her aoe stuff so she getting nerfed it's something logical.
Champs are designed around SR, this means that their design may suck or be overbearing on other modes like ARAM, Riot sees that and nerfs the strong champs on ARAM and buffs the weak ones that's what happens, period.
And even if you dont trust the data that I'm showing you, why do you think Riot keeps nerfing Sona on ARAM? 99% because by their data they are aware that she's still busted, there's no other reason it's not that Riot suddenly hates Sona randomly, she gets nerfed because she's broken.
AbiwonKenabi1 votesYes, Riot balance team is so well-known for immediately nerfing Champions that have Winrates out of line.
In actuality they don't always nerf a high winrate Champ right away, depending on a variety of factors. Stop insisting that they do. Or at least stop insisting that winrate is the end-all, be-all. I think everyone is aware that it isn't.
I find Rek'Sai to be perfectly serviceable on ARAM, though she's more comp reliant and player experience reliant than Sona. Sona can work on basically any team. Rek'Sai can't. She's not horrible, she's just less reliable in a mode that values reliability in a variety of comps.
Also, the site you linked (which I missed, sorry about that) uses Plat+, which seems kind of useless for ARAM. Feels like the majority of ARAM games (or at least ARAM players) are played below Plat. Not to mention I doubt MMR is very reliable.
And to your last point, our entire discussion is how we disagree with Riot's decisions. We aren't saying that Riot is randomly "hating on Sona". We are concerned that they don't understand what is strong on ARAM. Winrates are only a single factor when it comes to balancing, and there is no way Riot is solely using winrate to nerf/buff ARAM. Even going by your precious winrates; there's Fiora, who was buffed, 58% winrate; Caitlyn, untouched, 57%; Urgot, untouched, 57%; I'm not saying we should nerf these guys, but my point is that we dislike the "nerf all poke" mentality that Riot seemed to be going for, because clearly poke isn't exclusively winning.
Sightless663 votesFeels like the majority of ARAM games (or at least ARAM players) are played below Plat. Not to mention I doubt MMR is very reliable.
The majority of all games are played below plat. Using plat+ is still a good metric because it tells you what is succeeding in games with players who have demonstrated they have a relatively solid foundation in the game. Also, MMR isn't exactly hard to track. Track wins and losses, compare against others and their wins and losses, and that's it. It's a pretty simple type of formula, particularly for wide generalizations like "who is plat+".
Even going by your precious winrates; there's Fiora, who was buffed, 58% winrate; Caitlyn, untouched, 57%; Urgot, untouched, 57%
Fiora's buff was based on a time when she was at a 48% winrate, and probably could have held off until the poke nerfs went through. However, Cait wasn't winning as much before many other adcs got nerfed, and Urgot got much better after poke went down and frontlines became more prevalent as a result. There will likely be more changes. We're still better off than before the balance changes happened in the first place.
clearly poke isn't exclusively winning.
No, but it's still the best thing to have, and that is despite this being post-nerf. Pre-nerf, Sona and Ziggs had over a 70% winrate. They were the best, unquestionably. All the champions near the top were either poke champions, or champions like Maokai who rolled poke champions. Also, poke is still great, despite the nerfs.
Once poke with a basic frontline isn't blatantly the best strategy, then I'll worry about Riot's "nerf all poke" mentality. Until then, nerf poke more. I want to see more poke champions sitting in the middle winrates like Morg and Zyra (previous members of the top 15).
Exin02 votesIt shows how clueless they are when they don't touch any tanks except Maokai (who builds AP half the time) and they BUFFED Sejuani. Since you have more experience than me, tell me, was Sejuani really struggling in ARAM? I always thought she was a solid tank for most comps, doing better in comps with a melee ally or two.
Or most enchanters being good, but they only nerf a few.
Or ADCs going mostly untouched unless they were poke-focused.
Poke was the only reason these classes weren't running rampant, except for tanks, I think they were stronger than people were giving credit for even before balancing.
Sion can outright int tower and whole team must focus him to kill him and on top of that thanks to his pasive and tiny map he still get kill. Malphite is walking ult and when he ult somebody dies no exeptions, nunu is more or less same. And of course MF with ult deleting whole team. But yeah sona too stronk nerf plz.
Sir Saltarin1 votesThat sounds like a comment that needs a /s at the end because yes, of course that Sona is stronger than any champ you listed there
xDogMeatx5 votesWRONG team with the most hypercarries to unlimited poke range wins added with the fact they have one hyper cc
.
Infernape5 votesBut she sure as hell is the biggest. Even with the nerfs Riot gave her she still has a 65% win rate.
Saianna4 votesDid you read the OP at all? Here's the important quote:
Tip: If you nerf the ADCs (strongest class in ARAM), Sona's win rate will also decrease.
Her winrate isn't result of her own strenght, but the synergy with one of the strongest ARAM classes - ADCs. And because both sides have ADCs, their winrates are usually more in 50%s. Sona on the other hand is always only on 1 side.
Infernape3 votesDid you read the OP at all? Here's the important quote:
Her winrate isn't result of her own strenght, but the synergy with one of the strongest ARAM classes - ADCs. And because both sides have ADCs, their winrates are usually more in 50%s. Sona on the other hand is always only on 1 side.
Except Sona's kit works well with literally every champion. Having infinite healing/shielding and being a stationary ambulance is part of the problem.
AirKingNeo3 votesExcept ADCs aren't the strongest class in ARAM. Mages are.
Saianna2 votesIt's common misunderstanding actually. Mages aren't the strongest, but the most obvious annoyance. Poke wins when you don't know how to dodge spells. But once you do, you learn that mages aren't all that scary. ADCs are.
AirKingNeo1 votes5 people in a single lane. I think your spell is going to land more than not.
Sightless661 votesThat's horseshit. Everyone can use healing and the AOE shield. Any champion that autos once every few seconds can use her Q. ADCs are nothing special to her. OP is fucking wrong.
Sona is strong because she provides a huge amount of AoE shielding and the AoE damage buff, while bringing sustain that is good enough to get through ARAM's healing nerf. There is no team that doesn't work for. She doesn't need an ADC, she just needs to be Sona in ARAM.
Seriously, have you ever fucking heard anyone say "oh, you should reroll that Sona, we don't have an ADC for her?" No, and if you did, you'd get dodged because no one wants to play with someone who misunderstands the game that much. You just keep Sona, because she's fucking broken.
Z3Sleeper4 votesWouldn't have to balance ARAM at all if they just gave us bans
AbiwonKenabi6 votesAs someone who plays ARAMs fairly frequently, I didn't like bans. There's only a few Champions I don't care to see in the mode, and even then no one is an instant win. It also doesn't feel in the spirit of the mode.
Raven Redeemed3 votesNot to mention you wait an extra 30 seconds in lobby and then someone leaves at litteraly the last second, putting you back in que.
AbiwonKenabi3 votesYeah, it made Champ select far too long
Jaspers4 votesMost of what people have said in this thread I agree with. ADCs win ARAM. A couple of tanks and Ziggs is basically useless, he has -15% damage, -15% poke and certain champs take -5-10% damage so he does even less. I don't mind losing to a Ziggs when he wasn't nerfed, now he is, the achievement of winning over him isn't an achievement anymore.
Sir Saltarin4 votesAnd she's still the strongest champion on ARAM so I welcome her nerf
Thank you Meme Boards for making me smile once again
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=g6dYZFEI,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-05-28T23:35:16.028+0000)
And she's still the strongest champion on ARAM so I welcome her nerf
Thank you Meme Boards for making me smile once again
and she will continue to be the "strongest" champion in ARAM until she literally cannot do anything whatsoever
AbiwonKenabi3 votesI honestly think the blanket poke nerfs (further than 1000 units decreases damage) were enough for the most part. Champs like Sona, Lux and ESPECIALLY Ziggs feel terrible right now because they barely deal damage and just fall off after ~10-12 minutes (or in Sona's case, has baby heals). I always believed tanks win ARAMs and a good engage could dismantle a poke-reliant comp. Now, tanks and ADCs are crazy strong and, like I said, certain Champions feel terrible.
Poke was always strong on ARAM, yes, but they completely dumpstered it. Now tanks are unkillable and ADCs are strong, as you said.
AirKingNeo3 votesWhat? Mages are the strongest class in ARAM.
Vonyalo2 votesPoke champs were never a problem. Maybe somewhere in lvl30 games where bots play vs bots they were, I dunno... I'm pretty sure I have lower winrate in aram with ziggs and xerath and higher winrate with champs like leona, cho and sion. But riot decided to balance aram around those bot games I guess. That's why we see Zed buff (stupidest idea), overall tank buff (also dumb) and poke nerf. Well... still fine for me, just gonna reroll those useless ranged pokers.
Ninjas Flossing2 votesthey need to balance aram by making it actually random, as in every player gets one champion. from the entire list of available champions. not just from their "owned" list. and this should include duplicates on both your team and the enemy team.
Ackelope2 votesIf nerfing ADCs nerfs Sona, then nerfing Sona should also nerf ADCs, considering their support gets less powerful, and I'd argue that Sona synergizes with a larger champion pool than most ADCs do and is generally a better champion in most ARAM games compared to most ADCs. I'd say that nerfing Sona more is a fine option here, as she's still performing amazingly well in ARAM and probably will largely continue to, if to a slightly lesser degree.
LetMeAfkPlss1 votesI hate sona in aram she has a gigantic stun hitbox and that allows her to go full aggro the entire game cuz if her team follows up its game over
ZephyrDrake2 votesI hate sona in aram she has a gigantic stun hitbox and that allows her to go full aggro the entire game cuz if her team follows up its game over
and how is that any different from things like 
among many others i'm sure where they have the same or very similar effects?
LetMeAfkPlss1 votesI didnt say it was different dude i equally hate malphite and veigar as well the others i don't see much so i cant judge
Anihaku1 votesFrom what I have seen.....she is easily one of the most complained about champions concerning ARAM, but hardly the worst to play against. Maybe round 4 of nerfs will do the trick? I gave up on the changes to aram because the casual/non aram player will ruin the mode just like all others in the past.
Hopefully I’m wrong.....
Alzon1 votesThe problem in ARAM is that a single counter-engage champion can invalidate an entire team. This is why I permabanned Anivia when ARAM had bans, and I frequently saw Lux and Veigar banned as well. No one likes being useless for an entire game.