Why are Ahri and Nami getting nerfed but not Graves/Lucian/Jhin/Kassadin/Jax etc.?

HP Crookshanks·Oct 3, 2018·112 votes·29,200 views

And why is Ahri's ult getting nerfed instead of her E? [sg-lux-2]

162 Comments

RiotAD YuumiOct 3, 201884 votes

Nami and Ahri are incredibly powerful in their respective roles at all MMR's. Makes sense to nerf them.

We will be hitting Jhin's HoB synergy this patch. Currently there's a bug where about 80% of the time Jhin gets HoB's AS bonus applied on his first attack (this makes him THE FAST when he crits with stormrazor). All other champions in the game don't get the AS until AFTER their first attack. We'll be fixing Jhin to be in line with the rest of the roster (only gets AS on attacks 2 and 3).

SweedishGunnerOct 3, 201826 votes

Any news about Graves and Kaisa as well?

FlashesOct 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Any news about Graves and Kaisa as well?

They aren't going to nerf them ANYTIME soon, and when they do, next patch they'll say shit like "This champion was hit a little too hard because their impact on the game isn't extremely high. We're giving them compensation buffs to help tide them through this rough patch" and do some insane shit like give Graves' smokescreen a displacement and Kaisa's Q bonus damage against isolated damage

Emo TwinkOct 4, 20183 votes

Kai'sa is getting a skin in a few weeks, doubtful.

2Charmnot2CharmOct 4, 20184 votes

Kai'sa is getting a skin in a few weeks, doubtful.

Same with Ahri but here we are.

KyunseiOct 3, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot jinxylord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-03T18:35:46.422+0000)

Nami and Ahri are incredibly powerful in their respective roles at all MMR's. Makes sense to nerf them.

We will be hitting Jhin's HoB synergy this patch. Currently there's a bug where about 80% of the time Jhin gets HoB's AS bonus applied on his first attack (this makes him THE FAST when he crits with stormrazor). All other champions in the game don't get the AS until AFTER their first attack. We'll be fixing Jhin to be in line with the rest of the roster (only gets AS on attacks 2 and 3).

That's actually quite not what I felt in game.

I played quite a bit of HOB with Tryndamere, and the bonus AS always seemed to get going from the get go, AKA first auto on a champions goes fast, so do 2nd and 3rd.

ÆtheistOct 3, 20185 votes

{quoted}

That's actually quite not what I felt in game.

I played quite a bit of HOB with Tryndamere, and the bonus AS always seemed to get going from the get go, AKA first auto on a champions goes fast, so do 2nd and 3rd.

If you're auto-ing back to back, you'll notice the AS "right away" because the second auto will come out that much faster than normal, yeah.

Jhin is a unique case because having that AS during his first auto actually benefits him directly, due to him gaining bonus AD and movement speed on criticals based on his bonus AS, so the bug makes Stormrazor hit even harder than it should in addition to making him The Fast.

Lunar ArcSOct 3, 2018108 votes

Not to be a %%%% to you but like.. Saying "Nami and ahri have been powerful in all mmrs|" As if graves hasent dominated every tier for months? Ok

im smallOct 3, 201816 votes

But Nami and Ahri have been powerful in all mmrs and their nerfs are perfectly fair.. just because Graves is also very strong doesn't mean Riot can't nerf any other champions until they nerf him.

FOR JUSTICEOct 3, 201820 votes

Nami winrate by tier: Bronze: 50.15%

Silver: 52.05%

Gold: 53.62%

Plat: 53.71%

Diamond: 53.91%

Master: 52.94%

Faker tier: 52.83%

notice the trend? shes only stronger the higher in elo you get. being considered balanced in the first two of bronze and silver. shes only pulling up such numbers higher up mainly because shes decently easy to play combined with the fact that they left every other enchanter in the gutter, (lulu is 47.60% globally, karma is 47.36% globally, janna just got buffed, but is at 50.09%) this isnt even considering that fact that were in a damage meta, and nami is healer, but is a better pick then say soraka simply because of reliability, though soraka and sona are still doing fairly well (soraka 50.67%, sona 53.25%)

now to put things in perspective, lets take a look at Jax: Bronze: 51.82%

Silver: 51.78%

Gold: 53.11%

the ones above gold, but who are not diamond: 52.65%

Diamond: 53.51%

Master: 55.73% and no that ones not a typo

Challenger: 58.29%, (though this one you can feel free to omit, its biased against the fact that no one really plays him very often, as jax hovers only at just about 200 games played in this elo)

fifty five dude. let that sink in. while being about 52% in the lower baseline elo's. winrate source

edit: for ahri i cant reliably draw up her winrates due to the fact that after diamond shes at 390 games total, which is an extremely small data pool to derive from. but for the sake of being fair to both sides of the argument:

bronze: 50.21% silver: 52.21% Gold: 53.88% Plat: 54.02% those that reside in the promised land: 54.63%

ill admit these numbers make her look astoundingly busted, but remember the arguement (for why such strong picks like jax, lucian, jhin) is how can ahri be nerfed almost immediately, but champions like jax, graves, lucian, or jhin are allowed to be at the top of their class for such great lengths of time

Unstoppable MonkOct 3, 201825 votes

BuT YoRiCk Is PoOrLy DeSiGneD AnD iS DuMb ChAmPiOn- Jax Mains, 2018

BarcidOct 3, 20187 votes

It's funny because Jax naturally counters literally every aspect of Yorick's kit except the fact that Yorick is supposed to be stronger early game (no longer since the nerfs, go figure).

Unstoppable MonkOct 6, 20181 votes

Technically he was in the middle while not winning against early strong champions which generally like to be top tier in top lane.

AirKingNeoOct 3, 20181 votes

what? no? Jax mains are part of the top laners and are mourning the death of Yorick.

GayFluffyUnicornOct 4, 20182 votes

He 100% saw the 20 seconds clip of hash saying yorick rework is poorly designed. And i mean he isn't a good design. Illaoi isn't either. Sincerly a gp main who doesn't give a fuck about any of the champs.

AirKingNeoOct 4, 20182 votes

funny part is Hashinshin has played Yorick and also agrees that he shouldn't have been nerfed

ShablagooOct 3, 20183 votes

Quickly? Huh dude she's been the strongest enchanter for so many patches man, even after the heal/shielding nerfs shes been strong this entire season. Graves is strong because so many other junglers got nerfed, I am not saying he isnt strong but it was the result of many jungles being weak. Nami has been strong all the time.

FOR JUSTICEOct 3, 20187 votes

it was the result of many jungles being weak

Thats just it though, the same deal for nami just with supports.

And that second part wasnt applying to nami btw, ill edit that in to reflect that. I mean when someone is discovered to be busted, they are strong for a while. So how come ahri is almost instant, but jax takes millenia? And remember how long it took them to tone down irelia? Or camille?

KuroCaliberOct 4, 20183 votes

I just looked up s@20. Graves and jhin are both getting nerfs. What's all the shit about?

StephenizgodOct 3, 201816 votes

Doesn't Nami have a decent Winrate overall? Like nothing impressive but also not too low? Isn't that because she is fairly balanced? I agree that it can be frustrating to deal with a Nami when you don't have sufficient poke, but I wouldn't call her too strong or incredibly powerful. If i had to describe Nami it definitely wouldn't be incredibly powerful, to me she has periods of strengths and weaknesses like any balanced champion.

I think most of the deal with her is that out of the supports, she isn't feast or famine like most of them or just straight up oppressive like some others. If there were going to be nerfs to a Support I would think like Pyke, Ali, or the mages going Support like Brand.

BestPudgeNAOct 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Doesn't Nami have a decent Winrate overall? Like nothing impressive but also not too low? Isn't that because she is fairly balanced? I agree that it can be frustrating to deal with a Nami when you don't have sufficient poke, but I wouldn't call her too strong or incredibly powerful. If i had to describe Nami it definitely wouldn't be incredibly powerful, to me she has periods of strengths and weaknesses like any balanced champion.

I think most of the deal with her is that out of the supports, she isn't feast or famine like most of them or just straight up oppressive like some others. If there were going to be nerfs to a Support I would think like Pyke, Ali, or the mages going Support like Brand.

Nami has been the number 1 solo Q support in terms of WR for like 4 patches she has a high pick rate so it's not like it being carried by a few mains. The champ got really good when they nerfed the starting support items by 50 gold. Turns out Nami 1 less pot on the best trading support in the game isn't as important.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 3, 201826 votes

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

Nami is NOT that strong as you make her out to be. It's just that all of the other enchanters are STUPIDLY WEAK thanks to your horrible balance changes.

Take this nerf off the board please. It's not needed.

French CourtesanOct 3, 20185 votes

What is wrong with enchanters being bad?

SnugglePuggle94Oct 3, 20189 votes

What I'm trying to say is that Riot has made the other enchanters too weak, so Nami being untouched, has been able to shine because of that. Also, she is meant to be able to do well against enchanters because of her kit. She's countered by the high engage sups like Blitz, Pyke, Ali, etc.

But instead of helping the other enchanters, they decide to just nerf her when it's not needed, and will only make her worse especially since they buffed some of her counters for the only sole reason of Worlds and LC$ big plays.

French CourtesanOct 4, 20181 votes

Buffing enchanters again? Just right after they got nerfed? Literally in same season when ardents censer was meta? Are kidding me?

SnugglePuggle94Oct 4, 20183 votes

{quoted}

Buffing enchanters again? Just right after they got nerfed? Literally in same season when ardents censer was meta? Are kidding me?

........

Ardent Censor was last season's meta, bro.

And where did I say enchanters and buffs? .....

[sg-lux-2]

Edit: now I realize. Yes, the other enchanters need buffs. Especially with the ones below a 50% winrate.

AdormasOct 4, 201813 votes

What kind of a question is that? You don’t like to play them, don’t. You don’t like to play against them, ban the ones you don’t like.

There are ppl who do enjoy enchanter supports (including me), and their state is just abysmal right now.
So please keep your har-de-har jokes to yourself.

Sharpest glassesOct 4, 20182 votes

it dosnt matter the reason tbh. the rioter is right, she's strong at every mmr.

After you can argue about them taking so much time for Graves, Kai'sa, Alistar... But Nami and Ahri deserve their nerfs.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 4, 20182 votes

From the looks of the rioter's downvotes, and common sense, she's WRONG.

Nami does not deserve her nerfs. Other enchanters needs buffs instead.

Sharpest glassesOct 4, 20182 votes

From the looks of the rioter's downvotes

Downvotes coming from Silvers of this boards have no weight.

Other enchanters needs buffs instead.

They need reworks if anything.

Nami is top tier even in high elo.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 4, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=00050008000100000000,timestamp=2018-10-04T18:55:33.361+0000)

Downvotes coming from Silvers of this boards have no weight.

Wow. 1) Not everyone on these boards are silver rank, so don't assume every single downvote is silver. 2) And if you are insinuating that my downvotes have no weight, that's elo shaming and very rude. EVERYONE'S downvote has weight, regardless of their rank.

They need reworks if anything.

Nami is top tier even in high elo.

Top tier doesn't mean they need nerfs.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Sharpest glassesOct 4, 20181 votes

Wow. 1) Not everyone on these boards are silver rank, so don't assume every single downvote is silver. 2) And if you are insinuating that my downvotes have no weight, that's elo shaming and very rude. EVERYONE'S downvote has weight, regardless of their rank.

Wasnt talking for you, i dont know your elo. But yeah, most people here are silvers and below : have no clue about the game. Downvote shouldnt be used for disagreeing with someone, its used for when a post is relevent or no.

Top tier doesn't mean they need nerfs.

fair enough. But 53% for 13% pick rate in Chall, she deserve it.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 4, 20181 votes

No, the majority of these boards are not silver and below. And even if people are a lower rank, doesn't mean that they don't know anything about the game. That's fucking mean.

And no. She does not deserve it.

Sharpest glassesOct 5, 20181 votes

No, the majority of these boards are not silver and below. And even if people are a lower rank, doesn't mean that they don't know anything about the game. That's fucking mean.

Mean... maybe, but still true. Just seeing look at most surprised by Ahri recquiring these nerf, even the one saying Wukong is tankier than Riven, the ones saying better bot win during theses Worlds...

Its the truth, can hurt your ego, but if you're silver they're a reason. Even Golds are far from understanding the game.

And no. She does not deserve it.

u think so cause you dont know how to use her kit fully.

SnugglePuggle94Oct 5, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sharpest glasses,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=000500080001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-05T12:57:37.306+0000)

Mean... maybe, but still true. Just seeing look at most surprised by Ahri recquiring these nerf, even the one saying Wukong is tankier than Riven, the ones saying better bot win during theses Worlds...

Absolutely NOT true. Some don't, but not all.

Its the truth, can hurt your ego, but if you're silver they're a reason. Even Golds are far from understanding the game.

Nope. It's rude, mean, and offensive, not to mention the boards mods don't tolerate elo shaming. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say it at all.

u think so cause you dont know how to use her kit fully.

Are you serious? I'm a fucking level 7 Nami mastery. I know how to use her kit just fine thank you very much. Stop assuming things as if they are true statements.

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

BrightWîngsOct 3, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot jinxylord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-03T18:35:46.422+0000)

Nami and Ahri are incredibly powerful in their respective roles at all MMR's. Makes sense to nerf them.

We will be hitting Jhin's HoB synergy this patch. Currently there's a bug where about 80% of the time Jhin gets HoB's AS bonus applied on his first attack (this makes him THE FAST when he crits with stormrazor). All other champions in the game don't get the AS until AFTER their first attack. We'll be fixing Jhin to be in line with the rest of the roster (only gets AS on attacks 2 and 3).

Thank you for responding to the community even if you was down voted I appreciate this.

FOR JUSTICEOct 3, 20187 votes

Speaking of @jinxylord its nothin personnel, thanks for speaking out on riots behalf on this, we appreciate that you didnt leave us with dead silence [sg-ahri-2]

Wizard BlazeOct 3, 20188 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot jinxylord,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-10-03T18:35:46.422+0000)

Nami and Ahri are incredibly powerful in their respective roles at all MMR's. Makes sense to nerf them.

We will be hitting Jhin's HoB synergy this patch. Currently there's a bug where about 80% of the time Jhin gets HoB's AS bonus applied on his first attack (this makes him THE FAST when he crits with stormrazor). All other champions in the game don't get the AS until AFTER their first attack. We'll be fixing Jhin to be in line with the rest of the roster (only gets AS on attacks 2 and 3).

IS it hard to have competence and figure out why are they powerful? really dude think twice before nerfing or buffing anything. Why Nami is powerful? because people who play her are skilled for her. if you really going to nerf her heals then decrease the mana cost and not just throw her in the garbage bin and the living fuck out of her. jesus 130 mana for a heal.

FlashesOct 4, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Wizard Blaze,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ZOs3fuE5,comment-id=00050018,timestamp=2018-10-03T23:57:35.852+0000)

IS it hard to have competence and figure out why are they powerful? really dude think twice before nerfing or buffing anything. Why Nami is powerful? because people who play her are skilled for her. if you really going to nerf her heals then decrease the mana cost and not just throw her in the garbage bin and the living fuck out of her. jesus 130 mana for a heal.

Nami is powerful because she's the only enchanter left. Janna, Lulu, and other enchanter supports don't have any tools left to them. Nami also does pretty well early game, and has a lot of power in skirmishes, which is primarily why she's so good right now in this fast meta.

Wizard BlazeOct 4, 20184 votes

{quoted}

Nami is powerful because she's the only enchanter left. Janna, Lulu, and other enchanter supports don't have any tools left to them. Nami also does pretty well early game, and has a lot of power in skirmishes, which is primarily why she's so good right now in this fast meta.

so they will gut here instead and let braindead champs play over instead.

IllabetheOct 4, 20184 votes

She's not powerful because she is an enchanter. She's powerful because she's by her very nature a low death champion. That's it. She stays at safe ranges, takes about 10-13 k total damage a game. It has nothing to do with the scaling or cooldowns or CC influence of her kit. It has to do with the fact bounty scores in games with her = basically 5v4 Bounty possibilities.

It's the same problem that occurs when someone leaves a game: 4 people can carry the game for awhile..... because they are sharing XP with less people, not giving up as much shutdown gold as their opponents are, and have a clear objective: preventing lane pushes.

Most supports die. Nami doesn't.

FlashesOct 4, 20182 votes

{quoted}

She's not powerful because she is an enchanter. She's powerful because she's by her very nature a low death champion. That's it. She stays at safe ranges, takes about 10-13 k total damage a game. It has nothing to do with the scaling or cooldowns or CC influence of her kit. It has to do with the fact bounty scores in games with her = basically 5v4 Bounty possibilities.

It's the same problem that occurs when someone leaves a game: 4 people can carry the game for awhile..... because they are sharing XP with less people, not giving up as much shutdown gold as their opponents are, and have a clear objective: preventing lane pushes.

Most supports die. Nami doesn't.

e.e you realize enchanters are meant to be anti-die champions right... That's why I said she's the only enchanter left. Nami is now the only support champion that can keep a champion consistently alive while allowing the ADC to do the trading. All the other supports right now are either disengage kings that double function as lockdown tanks, like Alistar, Leona, and Pyke (his passive and his E dash allow him to function very well as a damage absorber/disengage unit when required during laning phase). Bounty phases don't play as large of a role as you think, because Nami's W and Ignite will net about the same amount of kills as a Leona's W's shield popping and a Leona's Q's empowered auto. That's not the main issue, it's that everyone hated the enchanter playstyle for so long because they were TOO good at trading and disengage and healing, but now that they've mostly been gutted, Nami's the last one left.

IllabetheOct 4, 20183 votes

No. Her healing someone has nothing to do with her win rate. It's an ENTIRELY different argument. SHE doesn't die. When I'm playing Nami, I rarely die more than twice.

Nami actually sucks at keeping others alive. Meta builds only heal about 1/4 or less of a health bar or less, depending on who it is, and it's on a base 10 second cooldown. So at best, it's a 6 second skill. Ie, in combat, it's not spammable. After she uses it, you have 6+ seconds to kill her/her allies. And that's just in mechanics. That doesn't include diminishing heals from grievous wounds.

Soraka and Sona can BOTH keep people alive better, with what ends up being lower cooldowns and much more influential abilities.

When hits are 600-950 regularly, and heals are 272..... the heal is a joke. It rarely saves the target, unless the other team is dramatically behind.

Bounties play a HUGE role. Nami can take kills, but not give them back. If Leona or Pyke or Alistar takes kills, they DO give them back. The Nami might net 575 gold in bounties an entire game. Leona will probably net about 1500 gold in bounties (5 kill trades, 5 deaths). Pyke will probably net closer to 2500-4000 in bounties a game, since his entire purpose is to steal kills, and often in sequence. Alistar is iffy and depends on how early the opposing team gets grievous wounds. If they don't, he likely gives 1500 -2000 in bounties. If they do, more.

Also, Nami generally doesn't take Ignite. She exhausts.

TormentulaOct 4, 20181 votes

Idk what you mean by her being an anti death champ, because I cringe when I see nami on my side and I nut when I see her on the other, squishy immobile, slow telegraphed abilities, the only thing really good about her is the W healing and damage. Even her laning phase can end off of one bind or hook.

When I'm jungle, nami lanes are usually one of my top priorities due to how easy it is to pick her or her ADC, atleast soraka and lulu can peel for themselves with silence, poly, and instant ults.

I'd say buff the poor fish before nerfing her, she's not good just her W is the only healing and poking potential in bot lane ATM since the other supports were nerfed.

IllabetheOct 5, 20181 votes

Except..... Nami is antithesis to Elise.... If she's saving her Q and W, Nami can completely void Elise's gank, by reducing your % damage by healing, and Elise is extremely easy to bubble.

I also think you've been playing against too many meta Namis who build no defensive items.

If there's a jungler that's a threat, I literally start off item 3025 or item 3174 item 3065

boricCentaur1Oct 3, 201811 votes

why is nami getting nerfed before morg, ali or band like nerf the better supports first!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chembaron YamadaOct 3, 201851 votes

[...] or band [...]

I agree, nerf Pentakill, music is OP. Yorick Olaf Mordekaiser Sona Kayle Karthus

boricCentaur1Oct 3, 20186 votes

{quoted}

I agree, nerf Pentakill, music is OP.

This just made my day.

BlinkZZ182Oct 3, 20184 votes

Soon all of them will be nerfed

yeulxOct 3, 201825 votes

Sadly not soon enough... id rather have .. Graves. Jax.. jhin and lucian nerfed before nami and ahri... nami is balanced... its just the other champions she verses are weak atm.. tho the moment they buff those types of champions nami will be to weak and probably never touched again.. imo id rather have a bunch of monkeys and gorillas balancing the game instead of riot