Why does this only cost 950 gold?

deadlychuck··2 votes·711 views

The combine cost for item 3071 is 950 gold.

Compared to the base items item 3044 and item 3067 it provides +25 AD +200 HP +10% CDR Which is rather easy to calculate the gold values. Those stats alone are worth 1,677 gold, which is understandable because generally stats get cheaper on higher tier items.

However, that's before you put a price on 30% armor shred, and extending the bonus 20 MS of phage to all physical damage(from auto only) and the bonus 60 movespeed to all assists (from kills only). The 30% armor shed scales with enemy investment, so if the enemy buys say item 3068 then the 50 armor costs him about 1,000 gold. Shredding 30% of that reduces gives the armor pen an effective 300 gold value. (brings it up to 1,977)

The extension of MS change is rather tricky to quantify, but it is blatantly worth something. In light of this, let's just call it X.

So the gold value of BC's combine cost is 1,977g + Xg.

Though, i'm curious how does this compare to other items? How much more gold efficient do they become for being higher tier? To do this i'll use the equation. 950 = (1,977 + X)*t, where 't' is the efficiency multiplier. Solving for 't', t = cost / (effective value) or 1/t = (effective value) / cost. [this makes the multiplier > 1]

Let's use an item of about the same price, but easier to approximate. item 3110 Using the same method, combining item 3024 and item 3082 costs 700 it provides

  • 25 armor
  • 150 mana
  • 10% CDR Those stats are worth 777 gold. Now the attack speed slow, of 15%, against item 3087 (picked because it's about the average bonus atk spd), would give an effective value of 131g. So before the application changes of the atk spd slow, it's combine value is 908g. The change in application also can't easily have a value attached so i'll refer to that as Y.

The 't' value for frozen heart, let's consider 'Y' negligible for now (i'll do the same for BC). t = 700 / (908) = 0.7709

The 't' value for Black Cleaver, considering 'X' to be negligible. t = 950 / (1,977) = 0.4805

Really, this multiplier is inversely related to efficiency, where the lower the value is the more efficient the item. Taking the inverse of the values you get... FH = 1.297 BC = 2.081 Meaning, BC has a 365% higher efficiency multiplier than FH, before you factor in those dismissed X and Y values.

However, to avoid making this wall even larger, and doing through a long inference proof, just consider this. In order to make FH's multiplier equal to BC's, the changes in the effect would have to be worth 549g (assuming BC's was worth nothing) in order to bring the efficiency multiplier up to that of BC's.


Basically, BC is broken as fuck and no stat redistribution, of what was effectively 83g, is going to do shit about fixing the item. Reasonable solutions would be changing the "physical damage" to "on auto attacks" or removing the a substantial amount of all the bonus stats provided from the combining of the base items.

So again, why does this all only cost 950g???

8 Comments

Variks the Loyal1 votes

Making the armor shred only work on AAs would not only eliminate it's use by it's intended wielders (AD Casters like Renekton), it would also cement it in the hands of Marksmen where it is unhealthy.

BC isn't a problem. The way penetration stacks and the other sources of armor penetration is the problem.

deadlychuck1 votes

I'm not referring to the armor shred, frankly that comes out of nowhere on the item.

I'm talking about item 3044 -> item 3071

There is no reason to make the movement bonus go from auto-attack -> physical damage, as it's indented users (AD casters) basically get a constant 20 movement speed, because every single one of their abilities functions to trigger it.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

... So?

That's like saying item 3046 is OP because it provides constant movement speed all the time just because you can see somebody, and it's unwarrented because it doesn't come from it's components.

BC isn't overpowered, and the recent change made it even more not-overpowered (Since it's builder can't come to lane with 3 long swords to kill you).

deadlychuck1 votes

No, consider the circumstances of the effects.

Yes, it provides +7% ms, when in 550 units of an enemy champion. However, it doesn't apply to minions, and doesn't function at all positions in a fight. If you're ranged taking it, then rarely are you going to be within 550 units of an enemy champion in lane. If you're melee taking it, then you still need to get within that range, to activate it.

If physical damage didn't basically describe every spell of many champions, then it wouldn't be that big of an issue, but due to the existence of AD caster, the expanded conditions of activation are almost completely ignored in the cost of the item.

Variks the Loyal1 votes

You're saying all this - need to get within 550 range to activate PD's MS...

You need to be within that range to activate BC's movement too, at least, within range to hit them with an attack. For the vast majority of AD Casters (Varus and Jayce stick out as outliers to this), you need to be really close to do it anyway.

So, I remain unconvinced.

deadlychuck1 votes

within range to hit them with an attack

item 3071 "dealing physical damage grants 20 movement speed"

No, you don't, you only need to be near a minion or them, which is going to be a true condition for pretty much any point in the laning phase.

Edge of Daybreak1 votes

I'm trying to figure out why the movespeed matters to anyone. It's not exactly why people buy cleaver.

deadlychuck1 votes

It's mostly just to do with sticking and escape.

It's basically providing an extra pair of item 1001 to a subset of the champion pool (AD casters), on top of the already extremely efficient gold to stat ratio of the combination.

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