The hypocrisy of boards as its best

Anime Fizz·Jun 13, 2019·24 votes·6,718 views

https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/9.12/platinum/plus/champion/Mordekaiser/

This right here, means the champ is perfectly balanced.

55% wr, 23% pick rate, 70% ban rate, total 93% presence in plat+ games, almost 56% wr in diamond +.

First time players are getting those kind of results, is it hilarious?

"BUT JUST DODGE HIS SPELLS NOOB, HES A JUGGERNAUT hes supposed to be BROKEN" -boards 2019

Can you guys imagine if riven, yasuo, zed, or any other champ not on boards "favorites list" hit stats anywhere like this? Lmao.

Fun fact : release reworked irelia and akali were all weaker than morde is currently (and they were ridiculously overpowered/both hotfixed).

And this is why its completely pointless to talk balance here, the golden champs on their favorite list will always be either balanced (when they are ridiculously overpowered ) or weak (when they are actually balanced).

Meanwhile that 47% wr yasuo that never sees competitive play is the most broken thing in the game ever made, right boards?

46 Comments

Critmaster GarenJun 13, 201921 votes

[{quoted}](name=Anime Fizz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fx3q4kkT,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-13T21:53:16.921+0000)

Can you guys imagine if riven, yasuo, zed, or any other champ not on boards "favorites list" hit stats anywhere like this? Lmao.

riven has 57% winrate and 10% pick rate at master+

id call that pretty close. infact, riven and vayne were massively overtuned like this for month.

id call it pretty hypocritical to call for hotfix nerfs after one day, when other champions are left in a similar state for almost half a year. thats not to say morde isnt overtuned, but it was hard to tell after a single day.

RagnaveilJun 14, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fx3q4kkT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-13T22:17:05.994+0000)

riven has 57% winrate and 10% pick rate at master+

id call that pretty close. infact, riven and vayne were massively overtuned like this for month.

id call it pretty hypocritical to call for hotfix nerfs after one day, when other champions are left in a similar state for almost half a year. thats not to say morde isnt overtuned, but it was hard to tell after a single day.

Overtuned in Riven's case for MONTHS, and it was chopped up to "Western Phenomenon" before they gave her the low effort nerf that only impacts bad riven players. Mains are completely unaffected by this nerf whatsoever cuz her Q got buffed in return.

Brain Errör 404Jun 14, 20192 votes

Master+ is a terrible place to quote statistics due to low game count. A 56% wr over 3k games is incredibly small.

Critmaster GarenJun 14, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Brain Errör 404,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fx3q4kkT,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-06-14T03:50:33.271+0000)

Master+ is a terrible place to quote statistics due to low game count. A 56% wr over 3k games is incredibly small.

not when this winrate is consistent over 6 month.

if it was a result of variance, youd see her winrate actually spike up and down. she should have days or weeks where her winrate is like 40% and days where her winrate is like 60%.

but thats not the case. it had been consistently above 55% for a very long time.

oh, and maybe the fact that master, grandmaster and challenger is full of riven 1 tricks, but what the fuck do i know right?

JamareeJun 13, 20199 votes

People are still bitching about Riven, and Yasuo though, that never stopped, hell, people were bitching about Sylas up until his nerf and now his win rate is even more below the average then it was before.

14daysuspensionkJun 14, 20192 votes

{quoted}

People are still bitching about Riven, and Yasuo though, that never stopped, hell, people were bitching about Sylas up until his nerf and now his win rate is even more below the average then it was before.

Ofc they were bitching about Sylas, Riot tends to release champs/reworks strong and then nerf them to the ground (ezccept for a few others, they decide to keep them meta for whatever reason). Honestly I'm just used to seeing this happen at this point so I won't bother complaining, Tahms meta phase might die off soon aswell.

RagnaveilJun 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

People are still bitching about Riven, and Yasuo though, that never stopped, hell, people were bitching about Sylas up until his nerf and now his win rate is even more below the average then it was before.

And now look at the poor boy, completely mechanically ruined by nerf after nerf after nerf.

LordGeovanniJun 14, 20191 votes

They are broken TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO not instead

usul1202Jun 13, 20198 votes

I may be blind, but aren't there a lot of threads calling for nerfs? Like, things claiming the ult is 0 counterplay are getting down voted from what I've seen, but scrolling through there's a good bit talking about how strong he is. I don't think I've clicked a thread yet that says "ah yea, good job on the perfectly balanced champ riot" it's more of "damn, new more is fun" on the positive threads that I've noticed.

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 13, 20192 votes

I've seen more posts that QSS shouldn't block Morde's ult than nerfing his ult.

The main point is that if Yasuo had that winrate, all you would see on the boards is nerfs. However, I just scrolled through, and I mostly saw -Morde has a bug (of course) -Bot lane determines too many games -Why did I get banned -muting everyone

with the very occasional post like this one.

usul1202Jun 13, 20191 votes

Idk if it's the sort (I sort by new because I spent way to much time here while bored at work), saw a good bit that were posted and didn't have much discussion point, so they got posted and just sat.

Seen salty people on both sides of the qss thing. I'd say give it some time to see how it works out.

These boards would bitch at yas if he had a 40% win rate. Expecting them to be reasonable is useless.

LordGeovanniJun 14, 20191 votes

people have long since learned that morde has a powerful boards main presence and the followers of those morde mains because the meme on boards. and that a section of adc and mage mains on the boards down vote anything that suggests that a mage or adc may be op they dont get all posts but usually 80% are hit.

LordGeovanniJun 14, 20191 votes

His ult is Camille's ult but it casts from where morde is not where his target is so the target can run to the edge of morde's ult by time he's finished casting and have no where to go but into morde. this move largely relies on you having mobility and invisibility to survive it. Cammiles ult didnt last 2 months before riot nerfed its duration per rank because people were crying about it now you can walk to its edge and it disappates before you reach the edge but she got no compensation for the majority of her nerfs except for more true damage on second Q which is what me and some other people pointed out as her main problem on release her Q being more heavily skewed to true damage rather than 85% physical damage 15% true damage. the true damage is what makes Black cleave shit on her depite it scaling with her passive more than trinity and the reason why people find her over bearing even when she loses lane.

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 13, 20195 votes

This

My main issue with Morde is how big his abilities are, and how fast they are. For example, I can't help but compare Illaoi's Q to Morde's.

Morde Q - (+ 75 / 95 / 115 / 135 / 155) (+ 60% AP) + (20 / 25 / 30 / 35 / 40%) for single hit targets Illaoi Q - 10 − 180 (based on level) (+ 120% AD) --Same for all tentacles

Lvl 1, they deal about the same amount of damage due to the ability scaling, outside of the single hit targets, in which Morde's definitly wins. Lvl 18, Illaoi's would definitely outscale Morde's, if it wasn't for the fact that it's much harder to build attack damage on her compared to ability power on Morde.

However, the main issue is the ability speed and size. I do not own Mordekaiser at the moment, so I can't test this for actual numbers. According to Morde videos and experience fighting him, his Q takes about .5-.75 seconds from cast to deal damage, while Illaoi's takes one second. I am 95% sure that Illaoi's takes twice as long to do.

I also believe that Morde's is bigger than Illaoi's as well. Illaoi's seems to be slightly longer than Morde's but his is definitely wider. If they were to have the same perimeter, Morde's would take more surface area that Illaoi's. However, I think that Morde's is wider than Illaoi's is long, making his even bigger.

Thus, not only is his much harder to dodge due to how fast it is, but you also must move farther to dodge in most circumstances. Only the 5% missing health heal is in Illaoi's favor.

Edit: Got rid of penetration stats, since I was wrong.

So many people are misunderstanding the point of this post

VanTurinoJun 13, 20191 votes

Agreed. I play Illaoi top a whole lot now and he is officially perma-ban for me. He chunks me far more and weakens my team fight even more than it already is when using her.

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 13, 20191 votes

Plus, his ult completely counters you without QSS, which isn't the best on Illaoi. You either have to use your ult on him during his, in which you can't use it for the rest of his team, or he uses his after your's, in which case you guaranteed lose the 1v1

Meteora707Jun 13, 20194 votes

Also, best armor penetration: , -- 35% BONUS armor pen

cmon mate, a little bit of research goes a long way.

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 13, 20191 votes

Sorry, I was in Texas for 6 months and was unable to play, or even read patch notes. There's probably other changes and reverts I am completely unaware of.

I took that out of the post, although its more viable for Morde to buy Void Staff than Illaoi to buy armor pen

Meteora707Jun 14, 20191 votes

its far more viable (actually meta) for illaoi to go black cleaver while morde never goes void staff tho

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 14, 20191 votes

First, that's an armor cleave, not penetration. Illaoi doesn't hit people much outside of her ult, meaning its hard to get six stacks until late game teamfights.

Second, I've seen many Mordekaisers build void staff against tanky teams already, and do amazing. Many builds also suggest it, but thats not the best thing to go off of.

Meteora707Jun 14, 20192 votes

https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Mordekaiser

I don't see a single void staff here, also you proc cleaver off of illaois E so pretty much landing 1 ability guarantees full stacks.

VanTurinoJun 13, 20191 votes

You know why they call it LoL right? [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

Sewer SideJun 14, 20193 votes

Except besides his passive and Q, Morde has zero damage.

His E maxes out at 140 base damage, which is hilariously low. Not to mention the incredible cooldown. The penetration simple exists because Juggernauts can’t afford to get LW/Void because they need the slots of defensive investments.

Illaoi has Tentacle Slam, her passive, and her Harsh Lesson.

Sire HippingtonJun 14, 20192 votes

Mordes Q has a per lvl scaleing on top, so it's 5-139 based on lvl +75-155 based on abillity rank, ending on 294 +0.6AP on aoe, 411 + 0.84AP on single target

Illaoi gets 10-30% increased tentacle damage based on Q rank, so up to 234+156%ad, which with only base ad is 234+239 = 473, so quite a bit more than mordes Q, both in base and scaleing even vs a single target

Also, how is it harder to get AD on her than AP on morde? her 3 core items item 3071 item 3053 item 3812 give her a combined 195 AD with equals ~325AP(based on adaptive force) Mordes new core is item 3151 item 3116 item 3157 / item 3165 so ~240AP

Asides from that, you can hardly compare two abillitites in isolation like that, Illaoi has alot more slappening going on in her kit than just her Q, while morde has basically his passive+Q as only damage sources, which there are powerfull.

not saying he isn't overtuned or has some deign issues(still think his ult will proof very problematic in high elos and pro), but i still dislike such comparision, especially useing missinformed numbers...

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 14, 20191 votes

I've seen Mordekaisers build all kinds of nonsense and get super fed, like item 3146 item 3152 item 3089 item 3907 item 3041 , and more. While item 3116 and item 3151 are usually seen, he works with almost anything.

I'm also not saying his Q is very strong, I'm just comparing two similar champions Q abilities, one champ who's very strong at the moment, the other on the weaker side of the champ pool.

I personally don't have much of a problem with Morde. I just wrecked one with Yasuo 10 minutes ago. He might be too rewarding for little skill, but otherwise, he isn't much of a problem for my mains. However, he counters too many kits with his range and ult, and I don't think a late game champ should be such a lane bully.

Sire HippingtonJun 14, 20191 votes

and I don't think a late game champ should be such a lane bully.

what makes you think he's a lategame champ? All the stat sides have his winrate falling off past 20 min, and for good reason.

RoakeyDoakey36Jun 14, 20191 votes

That used to be his main goal pre rework, and I've seen a lot of "Morde vs Yas 1v1," and "the only mage Yas can't 1v1" stuff, so I assumed he is the same. I believe he is late game, but doesn't bring much to a teamfight. He's more of a duelist, hence his ult.

RainbowIceeJun 14, 20192 votes

You hit the nail in the head with my issue with him. His E is also pretty damn huge for a pull. Insanely huge for a pull, it's outrageous. There's huge counter play to Blitz, thresh, and swains pull. But this guy just pulls everything in the range of it and it's a pretty wide range for a pull that's threateningly quick. The delay is that of him missing rather than you dodging i feel. His only dmg does come from his Q though however he has really good sustain and too much damage no to mention doesn't use mana so his Q being his only dmg move doesn't make up for the threat he is.

EedatJun 14, 20195 votes

20 Riven QQ threads with 51% WR, 9% pickrate, 7% banrate

"Morde is fine" with 55% WR, 23% pickrate, 70% banrate

The funniest thing is those completely fucking useless "tiers" that people shout about non stop have Riven in "Challenger Tier" and Morde in "Platinum Tier" LUL

D357R0Y3RJun 14, 20191 votes

he's getting nerfed on PBE according to riot scruffy's twitter

Sewer SideJun 14, 20192 votes

Using Irelia and Akali as metrics is poor form. Both champions are more mechanically intensive than “hit E or be useless” Mordekaiser.

Irelia got hotfixed nerfed btw, just like Morde is.

PaffWasTakenJun 14, 20192 votes

I mean, it was really easy to expect that the community would struggle against a rather easy to pick up champion (so, higher expected winrate compaired to Irelia or Akali who are """"""""""""""""""""""""supposed"""""""""""""""""""""""""""" to be higher skill floored). Add in the fact that pretty much everyone forgot what it was like to fight a juggernaut who isn't either straight garbage tier or ping pongs between 45 and 52% winrate every patch they are in, and you can see why he definitely SHOULD, by definition, have a positive winrate on release (easy champion + new playstyle that people are unfamiliar with + class of champion that a lot of people are unfamiliar with nowadays too). It should be expected to see him drop in winrate in the next few days, when people will figure out that going all in on him if he ults you is probably the worst thing you could do in that situation.

Riot should just disable him in ranked, hotfix his animations/cast times to be slower and just see where this goes from there. He needs adjustments that should've been done ever since day 1 on PBE, but hard cold nerfs would just be the AurelionSol situation all over again: new gameplay introduced into a a really forgotten champion category at the time (battlemages), gets straight up nerfed several patches in a row just to become a champion being played by like 5 persons.

Brain Errör 404Jun 14, 20192 votes

Currently a Riven post up now asking for more nerfs. People won't be satisfied until a champ is absolutely neutered. And half these people don't even play top lane, which is even more upsetting.

JackMcCarryJun 13, 20191 votes

"No one knows how to play against him! the stats are like that because he's new!"

then how come people can "master" him day one and reach 56% winrate?

"Oh he's just simple to understand"

So he takes no effort to win with but EVERYONE ELSE needs to learn how to interact with him just to be on equal grounds. Also "buy QSS" is not a solution to anyone who isnt AD/not a damage dealer.

General Esdeath Jun 14, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"No one knows how to play against him! the stats are like that because he's new!"

then how come people can "master" him day one and reach 56% winrate?

This one is pretty simple. They're not exactly "mastering" him. Think of it this way, if you play a new champ 5 times in a row, you get a basic idea of them. You can also see their scalings, numbers, and cooldowns, the enemy doesn't know them yet. Every person you fight could be going against Morde for the first time.

"Oh he's just simple to understand"

Mechanically, yes he's very simple. But for some reason people don't like to read skills on the champion page and understand. I've seen people say "wtf where did morde and Jax go" and I sit there like "bruh do you not read?"

So he takes no effort to win with but EVERYONE ELSE needs to learn how to interact with him just to be on equal grounds. Also "buy QSS" is not a solution to anyone who isnt AD/not a damage dealer.

QSS for AP champs when?

Ahri BakaJun 13, 20191 votes

No one cares about boards anyway I did post about it on reddit and thankfully got attention , 900 Upvotes+ and some Rioters saw it

Meanwhile on boards I get downvoted , they even dare to defend him , in what world will we get attention here at this point ?

The thigh guyJun 13, 20191 votes

Are you blind? Every other post is about how broken Morde is. :/

FlashesJun 13, 20191 votes

Is anyone actually saying Mordekaiser is broken? Afaik there's a hot post right now about how Mordekaiser needs a hotfix nerf, and I completely agree.

14daysuspensionkJun 14, 20191 votes

I remember when they were complaining about lane Nidalee for a day,

Oh boy, why do laners want to play my main? Nothing against them specifically nor am I biased against laners I respect their want to play lane Nid and it may have deserved few changes to work but she just isn't meant to be a strong laner anymore. Sure, it was meta seasons ago but she's not meant for stuff like midlane anymore. It's like trying to play Elise in the midlane. They also didn't seem all that devoted to getting this change to me, as they stopped completely after just a few days. Idk, maybe they did get something, I don't read the patch notes.

Linna ExcelJun 14, 20191 votes

He'll get nerfed in the next patch and probably the one after that. Riot just released him a little too strong.

haaaaaaalpJun 14, 20191 votes

The boards are calling for a nerf on an obviously overturned champion. How is that at all hypocritical?

Yordle GunnerJun 14, 20191 votes

Yasuo doesn't need a nerf he needs a rework because he is awful to play against and play with. The same can be said about many other champions. Zoe doesn't do much damage, it's how she does it that pisses people off. Same with Brand, Annie, Xerath, Rengar etc etc etc.

Malix FarwinJun 14, 20191 votes

I mean your problem is that you are assuming the boards are one entity when it is not. "The boards" aren't saying Morde isn't OP. The Boards arent being hypocritical its just your memory is really bad. There gas always been people who defended an OP champ, i am in the opinion that actually the majority of the boards believe Morde is OP as well, you just have some people(like always) defending it.

If people are willing to bring up more logical arguments as to why he is balanced it would be one thing but saying "you just don't know how to play against it" or "pick this" is not one.