Meanwhile you let mages go bot lane, build full ap, and let them oppress 2 people instead of 1. Plus, where solo lane enchanters really that bad? I think I would rather lane against pre nerf lulu than lane against quinn or jayce as a melee bruiser/tank. I remember back in season 3, enchanters had extremely powerful kits on their own and didn't need items like redemption and locket to do their job.
Salron41 voteswhere solo lane enchanters really that bad?
yes.
I think I would rather lane against pre nerf lulu than lane against quinn or jayce as a melee bruiser/tank
no you wouldn't Lulu's entire kit is built around being able to cover up mistakes If Jayce or Quinn fucks up, they're much more vulnerable
Only Play Darius11 votesNot to mention a Jayce/Quinn who loses lane is generally deadweight to their team, an 0/10 Lulu can still give her teammates game changing buffs
nice table24 votesi guess you don't remember laning against a lulu, sure quinn and jayce might have more kill pressure early on but lulu top for example never had any counterplay while quinn and jayce still do.
AntonioSenju17 voteswtf is an enchanter
Häßlich4 votesUtility mages--those with strong poke/wave clear/CC.
InTheory79 votes[deleted]
Häßlich4 votesNo, those are just supports. That's not the same thing.
InTheory33 votes[deleted]
Häßlich1 votesWhere are you getting that definition? You only listed supports, when the hybrid mage-supports were the ones that were considered "problematic" before the huge changes to support items. I think your selection doesn't reflect the term at all, because it's too general.
Just for the sake of argument, let's assume you are correct here. If the TC just means "supports," then this goes from a legitimate "Why is this thing this way?" thread into a simple whine thread, and should be outright disregarded.
InTheory23 votes[deleted]
Häßlich2 votesI see. You guys were going off some arbitrary "class" naming scheme that Riot used which never held any meaning (and still doesn't). That's fine, but half the champions in that list don't even fit the description of what this thread is complaining about, so there's no reason to give it any consideration.
Thanks for the links, btw. +1
Salron55 votesNo, those are just supports. That's not the same thing.
Yes they are http://puu.sh/uGQzu/7bb19c9276.png Lux and Zyra aren't enchanters are you insane
Häßlich3 votesYeah, my bad. Didn't know we were using Riot's "classes" as the basis for this nonsense. Thread rendered meaningless by it, btw.
TyrekGoldenspear73 votesIt's Riot's classes.
It's Riot's game.
Try again.
Häßlich3 votesIt's an arbitrary class system based on a few generalizations that seldom hold up in actual game play.
Try again.
TyrekGoldenspear64 votesAn arbitrary system that Riot is actively balancing around.
Try again.
Häßlich2 votesI think you've just made my point for me.
TyrekGoldenspear47 votesIf that point was these systems aren't set in stone but they are legit guidelines and therefore not nonsense, then i did.
PeponiPoro22 votesYou, I like.
Thilmer7 votesAn arbitrary system that Riot is actively balancing around.
Try again.
I gave you a +1 because you made me laugh. "Riot is actively balancing around"... LOOOOL. Balancing my ass; the metagame has been a chaos during the whole season 7, more tan half of the champions in the game are out of meta, the snowball effect is absurd, and power creep is the worst I have ever seen. And things are not getting better.
TyrekGoldenspear7 votesAt least I inadvertently cheer people up.
ChaoticPinecone1 votesUh, maybe YOU should try again. Lets look at the most recent patch, shall we?
It actually doesnt look like Riot is balancing around their classifications at all. They seem to be looking at each champion individually and balancing accordingly.
HateDaddy3 votesCorrection:
I would only add that Zilean and Morg sit somewhere in between because they can both wave clear really well.
InTheory7 votes[deleted]
HateDaddy10 votesI consider Karma being a hybrid battle mage, Morgana being a pseudo battle mage, Zilean somwhat of a disruptor and Taric a warden.
I think Taric falls in between too because he definitely has elements of an enchanter. Karma probably functions as mage early, enchanter late and that term battle mage, or hybrid in your case, fits that bill really well.
Skias1 votesI think Taric falls in between too because he definitely has elements of an enchanter. Karma probably functions as mage early, enchanter late and that term battle mage, or hybrid in your case, fits that bill really well.
Taric is basically a Enchanter/Fighter.
Veraska7 votesA class of caster that's abilities focus more on buffing and healing allies then damage or controlling the enemy
Stuff like Sona/soraka/janna/lulu as opposed to things like zyra or malzahar which could be considered disruptors
InTheory3 votes[deleted]
Veraska1 votesBrand and zyra are both disruptors (brand is also a bit burst mage too)
Annie is like the poster child for burst mages
Malzahar is a disruptor
Leona is a vanguard
but ur terms get the same general point across
SteelMankind5 votesI think Annie used to be more of a burst mage, but the 6.9 update shifted a lot of the burst power of Tibbers into sustained damage through the bear autos + utility the bear provides while alive, like tanking turret and blocking skillshots. It makes Annie less of a pure burst mage and more of a Burst Mage/Battle Mage hybrid.
SpecterVonBaren12 votesBrand isn't nor has he ever been a support. One source of cc does not make you a support.
InTheory4 votes[deleted]
Phreaktastic5 votesJust because you _can _ play a certain champ support doesn't mean they're support. He's not a support champ, regardless of how people play him. AP MF can be played support but that doesn't make her a support - that simply means you can make it work. Is Morgana an ADC because you can build AD?
Also, what exactly is the purpose for the quotes? Doesn't appear you're quoting anyone. Do you use quotations as a means of showing emphasis? Just because you can use quotations to try and convey emphasis, doesn't mean quotations are meant for that.
ShaolinToilet3 votesWhen role selection came out it's called bot not adc meaning anyone can play the bot Lane and anyone can play support.
Phreaktastic2 votesUh, yeah. Not sure how that has anything to do with Brand not being a support. Guess you just wanted to post for the sake of posting? High five.
ShaolinToilet4 votesYou really don't understand? Riot is telling you that anyone who plays with the bot laner and does typical support activities is a support it doesn't matter who you pick
Phreaktastic1 votesUmmmm... No. There are certain champs who are classified (by Riot) as utility/support. Yes, if you go bottom with any champ and play as support then for that round you are support. However, that champion by definition is not support simply because of that occurrence. Nice try though :)
ShaolinToilet2 votesThere is no support class or subclass. I suggest you read the dev blog which explains it all.
Ariel the Cruel4 votesIsn't it great how Supports (player) get to enjoy their supports (class) being confused with "supports" (non-class champions) while playing Support (role)? It's so confusing to support (assist) people now days. Someone should send a complaint to Player Support (customer service).
Support problems
Kaioko16 votesMeanwhile you let mages go bot lane, build full ap, and let them oppress 2 people instead of 1. Plus, where solo lane enchanters really that bad? I think I would rather lane against pre nerf lulu than lane against quinn or jayce as a melee bruiser/tank. I remember back in season 3, enchanters had extremely powerful kits on their own and didn't need items like redemption and locket to do their job.
I remember back in season 3 where Soraka would go mid lane and just spam starcall on you and continuously heal herself while silencing you and being able to restore her own mana as well. That's the very definition of oppressive and I'm sorry but the old Lulu mid lane (which is where she actually was oppressive) was no better.
At least laning against Quinn and Jayce you know that they're going to fall off hard starting at the 25-30 minute mark. Champions like Lulu don't because of the insane amount of utility they can bring to a fight.
HateDaddy12 votesNo, I'd rather lane vs Jayce/Quinn as a melee and I'll explain. Jayce and Quinn are prone to being snowballed on. Even if Lulu feeds her ass off to a melee laner, she's going to be more useful because of her kits design. Supports are designed to not have gold, so they function extremely well no matter what. Why should Lulu get to bully me into non existence and still no matter what happens, be more useful later on? That's absurd.
Solo lane supports have almost never been balanced and a big reason for that is because as I said above, they're designed to have limited gold. Suddenly when you get AP, not only is your utility insane but so is your damage. They literally had to rework Lich Bane because of old solo lane Lulu because she'd stack AP, get a lich bane and delete squishies with lich bane procs.
The Yetii Rider7 votes"Were solo enchanters really that bad?"
Yes. Absolutely. Soraka could farm the entire wave with one skill that was cheap and spammable. She could target herself, heal herself and give herself armor. She had a point and click silence to completely deny harass.
Solo mid Soraka was toxic as hell.
