making sheen on manaless champions a little more viable

LilxPaprika··2 votes·470 views

Was thinking what if we gave sheen a way to regenerate some of the wasted gold spent on an unused stat for manaless champions.

Something relatively conservative would go a Long the lines of : receive 5 gold per 10 seconds for up to a maximum of 10 minutes. As such It would only refund no more than 300 gold. Its not a full refund but its a good place to start to make it less unappealing for manaless champions. Sheen is a fundamental part of the game. And "denying" it, or setting champions back who would otherwise synergize nicely with it feels harsh. Namely on akali,kennen, more with regards to lichbane. Or triforce on shyvana/shen. Not giving the discount upfront means they need to at least spend 1200 for the sheen upfront. Otherwise getting sheen for just 800 gold would be op/give too great an early damage spike. Such that they could recuperate much of that setback on their next back. By then the early powerspike sheen gives will no longer be overpowered.

11 Comments

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

item 3057 Riven Yasuo

Holy shit, fk no man

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

item 3057 Riven Yasuo

Holy shit, fk no man

I'd still much rather rush CDR on riven with brutalizer and static shiv with yasuo. Also FYI yasuo can already theoretically get a lot of "free" gold by going avarice blade to put towards triforce., It hurts their early game so much they d have to sit on sheen for 10 minutes. If need be it could be less gold for 15 minutes Would still be balanced IMO worth testing on pbe.

Triforce would still be 750 gold less efficient on her since she doesn't scale with ap. If she does get triforce it'll usually be like last item to make it worth while on her. I'd get much more out of hydra/ ghostblade, or BT on her. Why does yasuo even have any ap scaling if he wasn't expected to build triforce?

Sirsir2 votes

The mana isn't sufficient to turn it off of champs that really sync with it.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

The mana isn't sufficient to turn it off of champs that really sync with it.

They are still at a disadvantage. If the item is no less synergistic on them why are they being gipped? Imagine if Hecarim didn't have mana you guys would all be like "no dont, triforce would be so op on him. " or same for Vi

I think you'll see them build it later or if they find themselves ahead. Otherwise its safer not to. Sure late game at full items it works because you have all that extra gold to put into anything you please. For example on shen I might get phage early into botrk and complete all my items or see if we're ahead enough that I can splurge a bit and complete triforce.

In the case of item 3025 the 1000 gold you spend on mana really is a turn off. Also my suggestion would coincide well with this change to IBG: http://i.imgur.com/yYNBdOk.jpg

King Odin2 votes

Not all items have to synergize with every champion type. Resourceless and Energy champions are really strong currently and having them efficiently use sheen would be a real balance pain. Also 250 mana on Lich Bane for Akali/Kennen really shouldn't make a difference considering they already have 90% of the benefits of then item. I really disagree

LilxPaprika1 votes

[{quoted}](name=King Odarth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fjiAFHEB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-22T15:36:07.499+0000)

Not all items have to synergize with every champion type.

I agree except its such a fundamenetal/characteristic/iconic item . nothing really there to replace it. Also riot likes to keep redundancy at a minimum such that you can't really replicate it elsewhere. And Sheen builds into 3 other items thereby affecting a set of items not just one.

Atmas is gone now too, even though it was lousy there isn't much else that comes close to replicating a bruiser crit item like triforce.

[{quoted}](name=King Odarth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fjiAFHEB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-22T15:36:07.499+0000) Resourceless and Energy champions are really strong currently and having them efficiently use sheen would be a real balance pain. Also 250 mana on Lich Bane for Akali/Kennen really shouldn't make a difference considering they already have 90% of the benefits of then item. I really disagree

what if i told you that their win rate won't be affected. it'll just give those champions different play style options. plus they're already building them anyways late game with the exception of ibg.
This is just a delaying action such that they simply have to wait till they have surplus gold to get it as their 5th or 6th item. if they wish to use the sheen playstyle with said champion.

King Odin1 votes

Why do you think their "winrates" won't be affected?

Rather how do you know so... That's a massive change, Tryndamere and Garen taking item 3078 cause perfect synergy

UberAffe2 votes

I'm sorry but this way of thinking is backwards, If you need compensation for an item to be worth getting then it doesn't really have synergy with that champion.

LilxPaprika1 votes

{quoted}

I'm sorry but this way of thinking is backwards, If you need compensation for an item to be worth getting then it doesn't really have synergy with that champion.

triforce is the one item that literally has the most synergy in the game overall across all champions, bar none. The other sheen items aren't far up there either. Assuming you overlook the extra expenditure you put into mana. Thank fully at least triforce is the one with the least amount of mana on it. being sardonic: Lets see so this champions scales with attack speed, ability power, plus they’re melee and would benefit from the movement speed enhancement you get from phage. Oh and since they can trigger a spell every 3 seconds lets create an item that can do all those things and allow their next auto attack to double their base damage every time they trigger a spell (1.5sec cooldown). But get this, here’s the kicker we’ll give it mana which they’ll have to pay for if they really want all those delicious stats. Then if anyone asks to give some sort of compensation for useless mana. We’ll go on telling people your wrong in thinking this item has synergy as it has mana on it.

With said compensation you couldn't find an item with that much synergy anywhere else. Its so synergistic, in fact, that people are well prepared to overlook the extra cost in unused stats.

UberAffe1 votes

For any item, if you feel that the useful stats/passives/actives that you gain minus the useless ones are overall worth the gold it costs then the item does synergize and there is no reason for you to get compensation.

my point is that you should look at either adding a new item with similar stats/passive minus the mana or recommending a change to the build path to remove the mana from sheen/triforce no champion should get compensation for an item that they like just because it has some stuff that they can't make use of

IcyPepper1 votes

Considering those champions don't have mana, I'd say it's fair they have to pay the price for dat sheen proc just like everyone else.

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