Friendly reminder: Just because you don't WANT to counter doesn't mean counters don't exist.

Lao Fu the Tiger·Jan 4, 2016·4 votes·833 views

Zed's entire kit is countered entirely by 2 great items.

Does it weaken you ability to harass and poke early on? Certainly. It weakens your early game. In my opinion, that's an AMAZING trade for protection from his ult for the next 30 minutes of the game.

See them instalock a Yasuo? That guy has TONS of counterpicks (not to be confused with in game counter play, but still a way to counter). They're not popular? Who cares?

Just because you don't want to rush a Seeker's or play Annie mid doesn't mean they're not options.

Shoot, when I play Yi or Zed against Malzahar I don't WANT to rush a QSS first item and delay my damage either, but man, when I do, the rest of the game is a piece of cake.

But it works.

16 Comments

Slamurai JackJan 4, 20164 votes

Yasuo has tons of counterpicks and counterplay, which is why people complaining about him so much is so astounding. There's a reason his winrate goes down and down the higher elo you go.

RalanrJan 4, 20162 votes

After watching a few YouTubers, I'm honestly not even pissed off at Yasuo anymore.

He's dangerous when fed (every champion is more or less) but he has the Yi problem of being squishy as fuck.

Lock him down and you will have him.

This is why you should always have a source of hard CC on your team! Because champions like Yi, Yasuo, or Kat go unchecked without it.

j jJan 4, 20161 votes

Daily yet friendly reminder just because there are counters doesn't mean everyone is comfortable utilizing situational items, champions or certain match ups. Also reminder QSS is a bad item to use vs malzahar.

Sakura MirageJan 4, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=j j,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiZPzKv5,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-01-04T14:16:29.514+0000)

Daily yet friendly reminder just because there are counters doesn't mean everyone is comfortable utilizing situational items, champions or certain match ups. Also reminder QSS is a bad item to use vs malzahar.

Since when????

legionnaire99Jan 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Support Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiZPzKv5,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-04T14:33:17.796+0000)

Since when????

i would like to have a item 3140 then to let there team have there way and kill me as a stand there and i take it.

Sakura MirageJan 4, 20161 votes

{quoted}

i would like to have a then to let there team have there way and kill me as a stand there and i take it.

Exactly

j jJan 5, 20161 votes

Point being malzahar should be using his ultimate to peel mid to late game as opposed to kill mid laners or adcs. He should be ulting top or junglers, so the only people who should consider buying it are them. Anybody who delays their damage as a zed mid just to counter a malzahar ultimate when he shouldn't even be focusing his ult on him in the first place is just burdening their team. VS any good team if you ult zed mid to late game even if he did not have a qss you would most likely die or be interrupted or heavily out of position. Where as if you ulted to peel for your team while still doing reliable damage to the person you're peeling your team would be better off granted you fit into the composition. Mind you, prior to ulting you were poking with Q and probably landed an E or W off reliably on a squishy and healthy heart targets.

NeomeaJan 4, 20161 votes

I think they mean it doesn't stop the damage just removes the suppress, but at least then you can try to get away

The Sword SaintJan 4, 20161 votes

Works great for me as riven, but thats because I can insta qss and then shield in to block the damage stream followed by a stun to stop the ult which means I take very little of the ults damage and can start my own combo on him (assuming I wasn't silenced right before the suppress in which case i would take some damage waiting for the silence to wear off).

Lao Fu the TigerJan 4, 20161 votes

doesn't mean everyone is comfortable utilizing situational items

That's the point.

It doesn't matter if a person is comfortable or not. League doesn't always go the way you want it to; you can't always stick to the same strategy, build the same items, or approach lane in the same way each game.

That's what I'm talking about; people are merely whining about the fact "waaahhh I can't play the game the way I want to" rather than learning to adapt.

The DeckownerJan 4, 20161 votes

i dont think rushing qss first item is a goodidea against malzahar because zed will barely deal any dmg with no ad.

Sakura MirageJan 4, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fiZPzKv5,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-04T14:42:47.995+0000)

i dont think rushing qss first item is a goodidea against malzahar because zed will barely deal any dmg with no ad.

Not first item but like 3rd maybe 4th would be good just when team fights start. I wouldn't rush qss if you had chemistry with your team but in solo queue you don't want to take the chance of somebody not being able to stop it.

warpenguin555Jan 4, 20161 votes

Zed huh? instalocks Lux, rushes ludens, feeds 0-5 WTF NOOBS

Espy PsycheJan 4, 20161 votes

The problem with Zed is not that he's uncounterable. The problem with Zed is that he severely gimps you if you try to counter him unless he starts feeding horribly as soon as you do. That Seeker's might help you not die in lane to him, but you also can't do anything BUT lane against Zed. Why? Because you have no mana. Most mages need to use spells to farm, especially against a Zed who's always a 100-0 threat. If you don't build mana, you can't farm with spells because you go oom after a few spells. To farm with spells, you need to build Athene's or Archangel's so you have effectively infinite mana. If you rush a Seeker's, either you'll have no farm or he'll be three levels ahead of you by the end of laning.

LxstJan 6, 20161 votes

THRESH just counters so much if you use the flay correctly for instance leona tries to go in NOPE jarvan tries to go in NOPE jarvan tried to go out? NOPE if you've ever saw the lcs game where xpecial is vs a jarvan it just looks so beautiful and it feels great maybe not the biggest counter but it can remove a major key of some champions lee q leona e jarvan flag combo ever try to insec my carry? no kid you most certainly will not

IcyPepperJan 6, 20161 votes

On one hand, counterpicks shouldn't determine game balance. The whole "just pick Annie/etc against Zed," for instance, isn't typically viewed as a fair argument. Champions should have advantages over one another naturally, but overall game balance should give you some opportunity for success with any match-up (like playing safe early against Zed instead of making plays and eventually outscaling him).

On the other hand, refusing to counterbuild is like refusing to smite monster camps while jungling. It's a core aspect of the game, it's just plain ridiculous to stick to cookie cutter builds.

On even another hand, a champion should not be balanced on whether or not someone bought an item that makes them entirely useless. Counterplay should exist for both parties, and even counterplay should have counterplay. While zhonyas is a fair point (since it counters almost everyone, not just Zed, in the right circumstance), QSS isn't one of those items against Zed I find "fair" for either party to be honest. Now, that piece is just my personal opinion.

All I'm saying here, I suppose, is that counters should be a part of balance but not the core aspect of it. Ignoring counters completely is ridiculous (buff a specific assassin in a tank meta and watch bot lane cry when balance shifts), and worshipping them is as well (because you shouldn't be forced, you should be willing to pay the price if you pick badly but you should never have a situation where you must pick something incredibly specific in order to not insta-lose at champion select).

Just my $0.02.