Why play assassins when you can play marksmen?

General Esdeath ··3 votes·1,137 views

You don't have the delayed burst, nor do you have the melee disadvantage. You keep mobility if you play something like Caitlyn Ezreal Lucian Tristana, you get a role dedicated to protecting you from assassins and other marksmen, and you don't have to worry about items that rely on enemy levels, like lethality. You just have to get item 3031 item 3094 or item 3087 on crit-orientated marksmen and you can start chunking people, from 100-0 in 3 shots. And you don't have the option of 1 target, nonono you can just keep auto attacking people and killing them before they can even reach you. What's that? You're an on-hit marksman? Well have no fear! We have something for you too! Just grab this patented item 3153 or item 3025 and they can't even touch you from all the slows! And if you need to kill a tank just grab this item 3124 and item 3153 and start shredding them down!

17 Comments

DGAGAAsharpAGD3 votes

And I'm sure you can abuse adcs, right? :)

(Here is the fix for you "Why play assassins when you can play bruisers and automaticaly win lane vs any assassin/mid range mage/immobile target?")

General Esdeath 1 votes

Yes, actually. I played a ton of MF, Sivir, and Ezreal. It wasn't really hard at all unless your team was feeding hard. Does that suddenly mean it's fine for AD assassins to be shit? Because we can all go play something else?

Beefy champs are meant to beat assassins

marksmen aren't, but they still do because Riot has no clue how to balance a 3 point power relationship. Usually it's tank > assassins > marksmen > tank, but Riot decided that assassins shouldn't be able to kill unless they get ahead, even though they should be favored in the early game.

An assassin needs their TARGET to be higher level for lethality to give more armor pen, which is so ass backwards I still can't believe it's a thing. Imagine if I said a champion did more damage based on enemy stats....oh wait...that's how Vayne works, except hers is done better because it's % max HP true damage, something you can't build against. Wanna counter lethality? Build any armor items and just sit back and relax, because now the assassin needs to wait for you to get more levels and become stronger.

Assassins had a clear counterplay of warding, but Riot took that away green wards and decided warding is bad counterplay because it's team reliant, so now assassins have this weird delay, like a marskman, except the marksman is more consistent, with more range.

DGAGAAsharpAGD4 votes

Does that suddenly mean it's fine for AD assassins to be shit?

Yet, those "weak" ad assassins are the most played and for soloQ one of the strongest picks/champs to main you can pick?

Zed/Talon/Qiyana. Strong characters. What are you even talking about? Assassins were always about snowballing, about high risk. And their scaling isn't even bad, since they can almost always opt to sidelanes and 1v1 big portion of roaster.

Also, do some math, yes, lethality is nicely countered by armor, but assassin can still put out enough dmg to bring majority of their targets down in one rotation vs squishy target/two or three vs full armor ones.

Low lvl? No problem, one shot. Higher lvl? You will get some armor pen to help you bring them down.

Ad assassins excel in soloQ environtment, yes, lack of vision(still enough to win games with proper one tho) is part of problem, but the main reason is how uncoordinated soloQ is with lack of map awareness.

So yeah, saying that ad assassins are shit is pretty bold statement.

Counter play to % hp true dmg is clearly dmg, something that assassins do.

If something, I think we should cry about enchanters/supports in general(Naut), you know, the real reason why adcs are even playable.

I played a ton of MF, Sivir, and Ezreal

Doubt.

General Esdeath 1 votes

{quoted}

Yet, those "weak" ad assassins are the most played and for soloQ one of the strongest picks/champs to main you can pick?

most played =/= strong. They're fun, hence why people want to play them despite this delayed burst BS.

Zed/Talon/Qiyana. Strong characters. What are you even talking about? Assassins were always about snowballing, about high risk. And their scaling isn't even bad, since they can almost always opt to sidelanes and 1v1 big portion of roaster.

All champs are about snowballing. Assassins, mages, marksmen, bruisers. Welcome to League of Legends.

Also, do some math, yes, lethality is nicely countered by armor, but assassin can still put out enough dmg to bring majority of their targets down in one rotation vs squishy target/two or three vs full armor ones.

Once the late game coems, when lethality scales, which just doesn't make sense.

Low lvl? No problem, one shot. Higher lvl? You will get some armor pen to help you bring them down.

Until they get a GA or tabi or any armor really.

Ad assassins excel in soloQ environtment, yes, lack of vision(still enough to win games with proper one tho) is part of problem, but the main reason is how uncoordinated soloQ is with lack of map awareness.

We'd have much better map coordination if Riot would bring back wards, and then we could revert this weird delayed burst.

So yeah, saying that ad assassins are shit is pretty bold statement.

One I'm ready to make. They're balanced around the idea of snowballing, but that's what everyone does in League now, so they're just melee squishys.

Counter play to % hp true dmg is clearly dmg, something that assassins do.

And how should any other role deal with it? Why is this even a thing in the game? And on a champ who builds attack speed?

If something, I think we should cry about enchanters/supports in general(Naut), you know, the real reason why adcs are even playable.

Doubt.

Feel free to check my match history, I've played all roles and frequently rotate them around to keep myself ready for autofill. But assassin always feels like the worst because their burst is delayed while nobody else has their shtick nerfed.

DGAGAAsharpAGD2 votes

most played =/= strong.

True, in some cases, not this one tho.

I again, encourage you to do some math. Lvl6 Zed with dirk will take 80% hp of mage with armguard just by R 2Q ele E AA, one more aa and ignite and poof(not to talk about duskblade slow later, so 3Q combo is easier). Lvl2/6 Talon, lvl3/6 Qiyana same things. Yeah, they have to scale... kappa.

Talon is arguably best ad midlaner with how much pressure he can put out just by entering fog of war.

Qiyana is known for her disgusting, undodgeable EQ combo and I expect more nerfs in 9.16.

And Zed might be weakest out of these 3, but he still feasts in soloQ environment, with his sidelane potentiel is something goes wrong.

Until they get a GA or tabi or any armor really.

If adc and assassin are even and adc wins 1v1 it's assassins fault. Rather blame supports.

We'd have much better map coordination if Riot would bring back wards,

Nah, too much vision is forgiving, if I can keep majority of important places on map warded all the time, that isn't healthy.

and then we could revert this weird delayed burst.

What delayed? Their early to mid is strong af. And in terms of kits, only delay is Zeds R and potentionaly Talons R, their combos are done in terms of few secs(1-4).

They're balanced around the idea of snowballing, but that's what everyone does in League now, so they're just melee squishys.

But they are better at that? It's much easier to get kill with assassin than with true scaling champs(assassins don't have to wait to scale, stop it) like Vlad, Ryze, Corki, Azir, Zoe, Cass etc.

Saying that assassins are below S/A tier is straight up stupid.

And how should any other role deal with it? Why is this even a thing in the game? And on a champ who builds attack speed?

Why should they? You said it yourself, "tank > assassins > marksmen > tank" and also stop acting like Vayne is problem, she is putting out only single target dmg, conditional 3 hit proc(2 with guinsoos), with, for adc, low range, her laning phase sucks, she has low cd dash with potential invis and singletarget knockback/conditional stun so she can survive/potentionaly outscale. Not a problem.

SuicidePlank2 votes

Does that suddenly mean it's fine for AD assassins to be shit?

But then you realise Talon Mid has 55+ WR for over months now.

DuskDaUmbreon1 votes

Really? Because his highest winrate is 53%, in masters+.

Where the hell are you getting that extra 2% winrate from?

SuicidePlank2 votes

{quoted}

Really? Because his highest winrate is 53%, in masters+.

Where the hell are you getting that extra 2% winrate from?

*55 in Masters+.

u.gg is the most accurate. https://u.gg/lol/champions/talon/build?rank=master_plus

VarusQdJFK2 votes

Marksman are horrid rn.

Aleksei2 votes

Marksmen are just terrible this season.

Pxerkza1 votes

comparing early game snowball champions to late game carries

and the argument is that the late game carries are better than the early game snowball champions

i've probably seen worse on the boards

General Esdeath 2 votes

2 items is late game? Damn these games get shorter every season.

Pxerkza2 votes

[{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fgNYljZs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-07-28T08:51:21.501+0000)

2 items is late game? Damn these games get shorter every season.

they hardly hit carry status at 2 items perhaps if everyone else is at 1 item sure they are carries at that point but assuming the game is even assassins are better than carries until 3 items which is pretty deep into the game unless snowballing

FSRER1 votes

I get the feeling that the new ADC (non-traditional) is going to be assassin adc so..problem solved

preternatural1 votes

because assassins are fun. adc's are boring until you get 4 items.

Baby Ghoul1 votes

Ah yes, the weak and overlooked assassins that nobody plays.

[sg-lulu]

General Esdeath 1 votes

Something can be fun to play and horribly weak. There are people who still enjoy playing Galio because of his kit.

More from Gameplay

More by General Esdeath