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I've never seen Riot fuck a community as hard as they fucked Rengar's

Doozku··236 votes·18,496 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R8WOlo_HRk When Riot announced the Rengar rework, somebody (MM actually) asked if Rengar was going to stay as an assassin. A Rioter responded with a snarky comment. Basically, he said, "It's a part of the assassin rework, so of course he's going to be an assassin." Several months later and Riot has officially classified Rengar as a diver, and said in an interview that they are happy with Rengar's state as a diver, that it was part of their goal, and that if he stays stable, he is unlikely to receive any changes. If you guys wanted to make him a diver, then why the fuck would you say that he was going to be an assassin? Also why is a champion with a 46% winrate considered fine? If this were Lee Sin, you guys would be shitting your pants. But that's only the tip of the iceberg.

On the Rengarmains subreddit, somebody made a post discussing Rengar's rework, and ways to fix parts of his kit. A Rioter responded to the post with the comment, "Q: Nice meme." in response to a suggestion a person made. Basically, they shot down the suggestion with a snarky comment, and of course the board went wild. Never have I seen Riot fuck a community so hard. Rework a champion to the point where half of the people who played him now hate him, and then say that he's fine and that the community is wrong for wanting him to be fixed. At least with Kog'maw, they reverted him. At least with LB, they admitted they fucked up, and said they were working on a fix. At least with Malzahar, they spent an entire year trying to fix him before partially reverting him. Rengar rework is the equivalent of Riot saying the Malz was going to be a Midlaner, but his rework moves him to support. Then, they say that him becoming a support was the goal the whole time, and that him being a support is the direction that they are going to take him from now on. If they did that, the community would QQ about Malzahar for years to come, like how Karma mains are. Except unlike Karma all of the big boards people would be QQ'ing as well.

Speaking of Karma, her rework was the only rework that has ever come close to this level. At least the Karma rework was several years ago when Riot was still trying to find out how to deal with reworks, and at least they don't ignore Karma mains and reply to them with passive-aggresive comments.

TL;DR: Rito gave rengo mains a big middle finger. At least LB, Kog'maw, and Malz got some follow up work. At least Skarner, Garen, and Morde reworks were considered failures.

Edit: Source for Q: Nice meme: https://www.reddit.com/r/Rengarmains/comments/5me2gt/some_thoughts_from_rengar_tweaks/dc33qke/ Source for Of course he's going to be an assassin: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/hYn5EO3E-assassin-roster-update-rengar-direction?comment=00050000

428 Comments

ABlueQuaker57 votes

I've played a lot of pre and post-rework Rengar and his current iteration is far healthier than Rengar has ever been in the past (coming from someone who had to deal with him on release). If anything, Riot needs to revert either part of his last Q nerf (or revert it completely) and he'll be fine.

Doozku29 votes

Release Rengar is a whole 'nother beast. We don't speak of him.

I posted this in another thread, but I'll just copy paste it here. His Q is an illusion. It looks like it has counterplay, but it really doesn't. It has counterplay in the same way that Yasuo Q does. It looks like you can dodge it, but because its melee range and near instant, you never will. The only way this spells misses is if Rengar himself misses it. But because its a skillshot, it has to get a bunch of free power, like making it double hit, making it reset auto attacks, and giving it a small dash. The only weakness of this spell is that it is slower than the old Q. But you need less Q's to kill someone anyways so it doesn't even matter. The W doesn't fit on an assassin champion who wants to use all of his spells on contact, but it works perfectly on bruiser who wants to tank a bunch and sustain damage a fight. The ferocity changes killed a lot of his versatility. Before, Rengar could choose between using his snare when starting his fight for extra cc, or his Q for extra damage. Now he always has to start his Q in a fight and use his W to get out if its a teamfight, E if the target flashed away, or Q if the target did not. His E, despite not getting any changes, became a much weaker spell because of this. His bone-tooth has always been a problem. I'd actually argue for its removal, because it puts too much power into a passive that can only be achieved by getting kills, causing to become one of the most feast or famine champions in the game. His R is problematic, because even though its cool in paper, in practice it is a problem. There are two main problems with this R:

  1. The ultimate's crit causes too much instant burst. It brings back all of the problems that old Rengar had with his Q oneshotting people instantly with crit because of the insane burst it gives. It would be much healthier if the ultimate mark gave ferocity regen like his old ultimate.
  2. The ultimate is fine if your using it to get kills, but because of how it works, it becomes much stronger as a zoning tool. This makes it so much better in high elo and pro-play where players can actually use it for this purpose, and it makes him way too strong up there. This causes Rengar to become one of those high elo monster picks, causing to be nerfed super-hard for lower elos just so he can stay balanced in pro-play.
Hitman Reñgar11 votes

You don't have much counterplay to Kha'Zix's Q either, do you? Not to mention Kha's Q actually feels like it has a place in his kit while Rengar's does NOT!

Vellich0r13 votes

yes you do, stay near a turret, a minion, an allied pet, or an ally.

Hitman Reñgar8 votes

Actually statistically speaking, Rengar was in his healthies spot ever right BEFORE the rework. His winrate was around 48% with a low pickrate. His banrate was quite low as well after all the nerfs. Funny how they managed to screw this up.

Blakers116 votes

Being balanced and healthy are two completely different things. His Q+Ult combos literally had 0 counter play. Not to mention getting caught out on old Rengar just meant hitting R and re-engaging with your team.

TheJan1tor6 votes

{quoted}

Being balanced and healthy are two completely different things. His Q+Ult combos literally had 0 counter play. Not to mention getting caught out on old Rengar just meant hitting R and re-engaging with your team.

The 1 shot combo from stealth wasn't the problem. Other champs are able to do this today (twitch, shaco, kha).
The problem was the target had no way if knowing they were being engaged on until Rengar was in leap range. Adding the Sound and Screen indicator would have addressed that issue.

CØulrophobia6 votes

Shaco can't oneshot anything. Currently Shaco has no need for either AP or AD since he is just crap. Bruiser, tank build is the best build for him atm, and even that one is less then 51% winrate.

Dreadlocks20 votes

My biggest issue with it is their view on old Rengar. "Zero counter-play" well add more counter play? Because champion's like Talon even after getting reworked still 1-shot just as fast as before!!! And they don't have a problem with that!? So why not just make Rengar's old R give even more warning ? Or BETTER YET, WAIT FOR THE STEALTH UPDATE TO TAKE PLACE FIRST AND SEE HOW THAT AFFECTS HIM? Pretty sure if Rengar's old ult was the camo we have now, a lot of the issues would be fixed by that alone.

But fuq me right?

Doozku12 votes

He still has zero counterplay. It's impossible to dodge his Q.

Dreadlocks19 votes

His old Q or new Q? And why does his old 1 need to be dodge-able? You can't dodge Talon's Q.. You can't dodge Garens R, Veigars R.. Nasus Q etc etc.. there are a lot of abilities that cannot be dodged.. So where is the backbone in your statement? How is it not fair? They could literally balance around it, no more crit on Q, no more sheen on Q etc.. It's still way more intriguing to play than the new 1.

RavenMagus4 votes

Most of those champions don't stealth from across the map and jump out at you out of nowhere

Hitman Reñgar7 votes

This was the problem. They just needed to change his ult so you could see / know that Rengar was coming and that would be all good! No reason to go and change the rest of the kit and make it feel clunky and bad.

ModAcademy Kayn3 votes

Old Rengar's ! was visible, and by the time you noticed, he was already on you. Increase that range, and suddenly, people are already back into turret range and hiding by the time you get in range. If they're pushed in lane, the change wouldn't matter, as it still doesn't stop the amount of damage he could put onto you without you being to reply to any of it.

Voluug1320 votes

Karma

Rengar is still at least a giant sexy lion warrior man with more or less the same kit except that forced to go bruiser because its probably healthier that a oneshot stealth assassin with no escape lmao

Karma on the other hand went from a battlemage to a mediocre enchanter that needs to be numberically superior to have any relevance, and that is slowly becoming a shitty and binary shield bot, while losing her unique aesthetic, weapons and thematic, in favor of a run-of-the-mill looks and another liefied trash broken back.

Ironically the were reworked the first time by the same idiot, Scarizard.

Healurownbum9 votes

This so much...

ModAcademy Kayn16 votes

I'm sorry, but when people only show the Bad Quote, in this case "Nice meme", and ignore the rest of the entire comment he posted, it annoys me.

https://i.gyazo.com/37d9b61cdbeddbbe1a3ce2e100443b04.png

So, yeah, he made a joke about one of the changes, and gave feedback about the rest of the changes. "Such mistreatment!" Now let's actually look at the changes suggested for Q.

https://i.gyazo.com/0fad1ba67db8b1611a653f1ea3b7670f.png

It's saying to just make it old Q, and remove power from wierd places (Not scaling from Bonus AD, but only from Passive AD??). Most likely, the "Nice meme" part is coming from the Make it Old Q part, which they removed for a reason, and no, the reason is not "So you can dodge it!". Look at Talon's Q, Kha'Zix's Q, and Zed's Passive proc'ing auto attack. None of these can be dodged, however they all have some sort of restriction.

For Talon to get his In-close-range Q he needs to have gotten in range via parkour outplay, or invisibility running. Otherwise, all he has is a dash that does less damage. Kha'zix's Q is undodgebale, but a sizeable amount of it's damage is getting an isolated Target, which grouping helps prevent. For Zed's, you can't dodge an Auto, but he only gets that extra damage when the opponent is at 50% health or less. These are all restrictions that are given for some of the assassins with undodgeable damages.

Look at Old Rengar. His Q had no restriction, did lots of damage and was near instantaneous. He got within range, and you were taking the full brunt of his Q, and most likely his empowered Q right after, or otherway around. The point of his Q was not to add in "Counterplay, it was to separate the damage into two parts, the swing and the pierce. The point was to delay the damage into two parts, not to add in counterplay, or at least not entirely.

Should he have been a bit more polite considering he is in a position of power that represents a company? Maybe. Was the suggestion by the player a good one? Not at all. It goes against the entire point of the rework, which was trying to add in more to-kill time.

And finally, since this one thing hurts me as well.

Rework a champion to the point where half of the people who played him now hate him

It helps to know what the community liked about him. Now this is not an example for ALL Rengar mains, but some of the few I've heard from in-game about why they don't like Rengar. From those people, they dislike not being able to oneshot instantly anymore. I've pressured a few more about that sentence, and they talked about how Old Rengar could burst a carry without response.

Like said, this is not representative of the entire Rengar fanbase. That said, when a large pleasureable part of a champion was being able to oneshot extremely fast without much reaction, of course people are going to feel hurt when it is taken away. I've seen it time and time again, that people who play something feel that they're entitled to that playstyle no matter how unhealthy because that is how they've always played it.

It sucks when a prefered playstyle is taken away, but keep in mind, was that playstyle healthy for the game. AP Trist is a great example, of how people complained that their favorite way to build was taken away, regardless of the actual health of the playstyle mentioned. New Rengar, though maybe overnerfed, is much healthier for the game than old Rengar will ever be. He needs work, but the direction is much better.

Doozku4 votes

I feel like if they wanted to make him a bruiser, he needed to have more work put into him than this. His Q isn't really all that good, and while his old Q is unhealthy as well, his new Q is not far off. I was watching the ghostcrawler Q/A where they talked about a champion who hunted his prey, and then killed and dueled him, and the most skilled player one. That champion is not Rengar. Rengar is a champion who builds tanky, runs into the enemy adc, kills the enemy adc, and then either runs away with his W or stays in the fight. If they made that champion, it would be great. A champion who still has his skillful kills, but also has room for the opponent to defeat him. Instead we get this Rengar who takes little skill to beat, and the only real way to beat him is to cc him and run, or ward. There's no real outplay potential to him now, other than flash away and burst him.

But that's besides the point. The point of this post wasn't mainly to talk about whether or not Rengar should be a bruiser. It was about how Riot said he was going to be an assassin but then made him into a diver and said that he's fine as he is now with a pretty low winrate. He definitely needs some work and I don't think a revert is the best way. A rework that turns him into that kind of hunter, giving him more outplay potential but letting him be outplayed, is what he needs. One that makes him feel like the monster that he is in the lore, not just some tanky kitty that poops on people.

ModAcademy Kayn8 votes

I think we need to keep in mind expectations and reality. Riot said yes to Rengar remaining an assassin, during his Pre-rework thought post. That was during internal testing and before PBE changes had been released for him. During this time, they may have thought that Rengar could still survive as he does building Full AD and such. However come players actually playing him, things turned out much differently than they had tested previously, turning a once true statement false.

There is also another possibility. Maybe they wanted a Tankier Assassin. Not Tank Ekko levels, but to a degree it makes sense. Why would someone who is such a proud hunter limit himself to smaller prey? As you said, Bruiser Rengar still kills people, but now he doesn't instantly die come being CC'd out of stealth. As a result, Rengar may require a bit more effort in killing targets, but he gets larger target selection.

Like said, that is all theory, and how actual gameplay works out may change that. That said, Old Rengar and new Rengar fit the idea of a Diver more than most assassins, looking at the overall design of the champ. If we wanted to get him back into a True assassin role, he needs more ins and outs, than currently.

From a thematic perspective, imagine if Rengar had a different type of Kha'Zix like stealth. Imagine the fights, two hunters constantly coming in and out of stealth taking stabs at each other, truly testing each other.

Doozku1 votes

I'd actually an ultimate like that, it would be pretty cool and fit the idea I had of him as being an assassin/diver who needs to duel his targets and go in and out of fights to defeat them. I don't think that an exact copy of k6 ult would fit on him, but something similar to that would work. I believe that if Rengar is ever going to get a balanced rework, they need to get rid of the stealth entirely. Make his ult give some kind of big warning roar, like Sion, and have some kind of indicator that Rengar is getting closer to you. Maybe the corners of the screen begin blacking out more and more the closer Rengar gets to you.

I'll actually write a rework post about him after this. I have a really direction of where I want to take him, but at the same time I don't have too many ideas about where to take him. Having a k6 style ability would be really cool, but it needs to be somewhat differently. Perhaps using his abilities in a certain way after he ults causes him to stealth after?

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

Oh! What if he had a "Playing Dirty" type ability, like he throws sand/something else into the eyes of people nearby, making him stealthed for all those effected, but not those who weren't hit.

Doozku2 votes

Just had an idea of a rework for him. I've decided i'll post it here then put it up in concepts and creations later. Call me out on any bullshit on these changes. They are pretty extreme.

Passive: Bonetooth Necklace Rengar can choose who he wants to hunt (like kindred passive). Killing the hunted target grants Rengar bonuses depending on the target's strength. Higher strength targets are brighter on the target selection menu. Killing the marked target gives Rengar a trophy,bonus AD, 0.5% for easy targets, all the way to 3% for strong targets. After level 11, Rengar will no longer be able to hunt targets marked as too easy (champions that have much less gold than him. There will always be two champions who are considered strong enough for Rengar to fight.) Rengar can hold a maximum of 10 trophies, and cannot lose trophies (Note: Ferocity and Brush jumps are not here. They are cool mechanics but don't fit in with this rework)

CD: 3 minutes to mark a target. CD starts on cast and he can change his cast when the CD comes off.

Q: Savage Strike Rengar savagely strikes at the target with his claw, dealing physical damage (line skillshot like yasuo Q. Has similar to the same sounds as his old Q)

CD: 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds

Emp version: Rengar strikes the target's eye, reducing the vision range of the target by half for 1 second and giving him a movespeed buff (think like Quinn's Q but with slighty more vision) (note that this only applies to the target currently being hunted)

W: Battle Roar Unchanged

Emp version: Rengar becomes immune to cc for 1 second (does not cleanse cc)

CD: Unchanged

E: Savage Jump Rengar leaps in a line skillshot. If he hits a target, he slashes through them dealing physical damage, causing them to bleed out, and he lands on the opposite side of where he hit the target.

Emp version: The spell is given a longer one second wind up (could be half a second if it's too long) before Rengar leaps, but the range is increased to Rengar's current leap range. If Rengar hits the marked target, he gains a move speed buff and bleeds out the target for a massive amount. Rengar also dashes through multiple targets now (though he can only bleed the marked target) Consecutive dashes cause his bleed damage to be reapplied as well as doubled. (Imagine jumping out and slashing through his target, and then causing them to bleed out like a real animal in a hunt as they struggle to get away.)

CD: 8/8.5/7/7.5/6

R: The Thrill of the Hunt (This spell can only be casted if a target is marked) Rengar roars a roar that only his marked target can hear, while camouflaging himself to every enemy except his target. His camoflague reveal range is the same as it is currently. When Rengar leaves stealth, if his marked target is nearby him, he enters feral mode until he gets stunned, until his target dies, or until 7 seconds have passed . While in feral mode, all of Rengar's spells become empowered and get their cooldown halved. However, when he casts a spell, all of his other spells go on cooldown for 1 second. If he wins the duel he gets healed for a quarter of his missing health.

Idea with this rework is that Rengar is now a fighter who focuses on dueling and assassinating one target. He now has more tools to outplay his enemies and more mobility, but he loses his incredible fast burst. It should probably take 3 to 4 seconds to kill a semi-tanky target, though maybe 1 to 2 seconds to kill a squishier target. It is also to make his bonetooth necklace more healthy. His R now has all of the good parts of his new R without the bad parts (having it be used as a massive zoning tool, or having it be too obvious.) He also now will be way more fun and satisfying to play (I expect his dash to have a massive chunk sound effect while causing blood to fly everywhere.) while having more counterplay and ways to outplay him. It also fits the theme as a hunter who hunts down and then duels the strongest of prey.

TheJan1tor1 votes

{quoted}

Just had an idea of a rework for him. I've decided i'll post it here then put it up in concepts and creations later. Call me out on any bullshit on these changes. They are pretty extreme.

Passive: Bonetooth Necklace Rengar can choose who he wants to hunt (like kindred passive). Killing the hunted target grants Rengar bonuses depending on the target's strength. Higher strength targets are brighter on the target selection menu. Killing the marked target gives Rengar a trophy,bonus AD, 0.5% for easy targets, all the way to 3% for strong targets. After level 11, Rengar will no longer be able to hunt targets marked as too easy (champions that have much less gold than him. There will always be two champions who are considered strong enough for Rengar to fight.) Rengar can hold a maximum of 10 trophies, and cannot lose trophies (Note: Ferocity and Brush jumps are not here. They are cool mechanics but don't fit in with this rework)

CD: 3 minutes to mark a target. CD starts on cast and he can change his cast when the CD comes off.

Q: Savage Strike Rengar savagely strikes at the target with his claw, dealing physical damage (line skillshot like yasuo Q. Has similar to the same sounds as his old Q)

CD: 6/5.5/5/4.5/4 seconds

Emp version: Rengar strikes the target's eye, reducing the vision range of the target by half for 1 second and giving him a movespeed buff (think like Quinn's Q but with slighty more vision) (note that this only applies to the target currently being hunted)

W: Battle Roar Unchanged

Emp version: Rengar becomes immune to cc for 1 second (does not cleanse cc)

CD: Unchanged

E: Savage Jump Rengar leaps in a line skillshot. If he hits a target, he slashes through them dealing physical damage, causing them to bleed out, and he lands on the opposite side of where he hit the target.

Emp version: The spell is given a longer one second wind up (could be half a second if it's too long) before Rengar leaps, but the range is increased to Rengar's current leap range. If Rengar hits the marked target, he gains a move speed buff and bleeds out the target for a massive amount. Rengar also dashes through multiple targets now (though he can only bleed the marked target) Consecutive dashes cause his bleed damage to be reapplied as well as doubled. (Imagine jumping out and slashing through his target, and then causing them to bleed out like a real animal in a hunt as they struggle to get away.)

CD: 8/8.5/7/7.5/6

R: The Thrill of the Hunt (This spell can only be casted if a target is marked) Rengar roars a roar that only his marked target can hear, while camouflaging himself to every enemy except his target. His camoflague reveal range is the same as it is currently. When Rengar leaves stealth, if his marked target is nearby him, he enters feral mode until he gets stunned, until his target dies, or until 7 seconds have passed . While in feral mode, all of Rengar's spells become empowered and get their cooldown halved. However, when he casts a spell, all of his other spells go on cooldown for 1 second. If he wins the duel he gets healed for a quarter of his missing health.

Idea with this rework is that Rengar is now a fighter who focuses on dueling and assassinating one target. He now has more tools to outplay his enemies and more mobility, but he loses his incredible fast burst. It should probably take 3 to 4 seconds to kill a semi-tanky target, though maybe 1 to 2 seconds to kill a squishier target. It is also to make his bonetooth necklace more healthy. His R now has all of the good parts of his new R without the bad parts (having it be used as a massive zoning tool, or having it be too obvious.) He also now will be way more fun and satisfying to play (I expect his dash to have a massive chunk sound effect while causing blood to fly everywhere.) while having more counterplay and ways to outplay him. It also fits the theme as a hunter who hunts down and then duels the strongest of prey.

....No

Doozku3 votes

Why not? No feedback means I can't make it better.

LyingOnLine14 votes

Rengar's always been a problem.

Manaless spamcat is probably in the healthiest state he's ever been, game-wise.

Slythion30 votes

45.6% win rate w/ 3.9% play rate

"healthy"

the cat got fucked up so hard and his unneeded Q nerfs are what sealed the deal

ModAcademy Kayn15 votes

Health and balance are two different things though. Yasou could be balanced, but most would agree that the way he plays against his opponent isn't healthy.

Slythion5 votes

that is very true, sorry for the confusion. At the same time though, you need to look at health from both ends:

playing against and playing as

It might feel more fair for the person playing against a Rengar post-rework, but I can tell you that the large majority of players don't think new Rengar feels very good to play. So I suppose from the outside it appears Rengar is healthy, but playing as him feels anything but rewarding or fun to be a part of.

Doozku11 votes

Really? I'd beg to differ.

His Q is an illusion. It looks like it has counterplay, but it really doesn't. It has counterplay in the same way that Yasuo Q does. It looks like you can dodge it, but because its melee range and near instant, you never will. The only way this spells misses is if Rengar himself misses it. But because its a skillshot, it has to get a bunch of free power, like making it double hit, making it reset auto attacks, and giving it a small dash. The only weakness of this spell is that it is slower than the old Q. But you need less Q's to kill someone anyways so it doesn't even matter. The W doesn't fit on an assassin champion who wants to use all of his spells on contact, but it works perfectly on bruiser who wants to tank a bunch and sustain damage a fight. The ferocity changes killed a lot of his versatility. Before, Rengar could choose between using his snare when starting his fight for extra cc, or his Q for extra damage. Now he always has to start his Q in a fight and use his W to get out if its a teamfight, E if the target flashed away, or Q if the target did not. His E, despite not getting any changes, became a much weaker spell because of this. His bone-tooth has always been a problem. I'd actually argue for its removal, because it puts too much power into a passive that can only be achieved by getting kills, causing to become one of the most feast or famine champions in the game. His R is problematic, because even though its cool in paper, in practice it is a problem. There are two main problems with this R:

  1. The ultimate's crit causes too much instant burst. It brings back all of the problems that old Rengar had with his Q oneshotting people instantly with crit because of the insane burst it gives. It would be much healthier if the ultimate mark gave ferocity regen like his old ultimate.
  2. The ultimate is fine if your using it to get kills, but because of how it works, it becomes much stronger as a zoning tool. This makes it so much better in high elo and pro-play where players can actually use it for this purpose, and it makes him way too strong up there. This causes Rengar to become one of those high elo monster picks, causing to be nerfed super-hard for lower elos just so he can stay balanced in pro-play.
Salson11 votes

The only reason Q was changed was to gut crit Rengar. That build was retarded, an assassin who MIGHT OR MIGHT NOT kill you because Nagakabouros told him so. The same with crit on ult, it gives him power that cannot be increased by building more crit.

Agree on W though, it's the main cause of bruiser Rengar being a thing. Same on bone-tooth.

Idk, it's like they focused so much on removing Crit Rengar that they fucked up the champ on accident.

Insolent2 votes

LOL boy are you stupid. It took time to get him to 100%. Its a build. BEFORE he got there. HE MISSED LOTS OF CRITS THAT HE NEEDED TOO. We made an investment towards late game in that build . Heard of that? Actually having to change builds to win the game? Yeah..critical thinking used to be something you used on Rengar...now its the same old shitty cleaver/visage shit every damn game.

Dusk Mane Rengar5 votes

Wow relax.

First of all he is right about Q.

Critgar was a problem, because even when you invest toward late game if you get simple lucky crit at mid game that would mean at least 600~700 damage.

Rito thought that moving his Q to his R would solve the problem as you only get the damage under the X condition, more reliable damage that can be predicted by the enemy and not just: "I got crit with emp Q, guess im dead".

This change while good on paper it simply didnt work.

TheThrillOfHunt1 votes

Well, lucky midgame caitlyn headshot crit results in around 1600 free damage. Why wouldn't it be an issue if Rengar's Q is ?

Dusk Mane Rengar3 votes

[{quoted}](name=No Rengar NoLife,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fbuwAAkW,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-05-30T22:19:16.577+0000)

Cause rengar has stealth, either you nerf stealth or take away the damage somehow.

Riot decided to nerf stealth and made Q situationary.

Jinzo Torrance11 votes

Are you serious? Could you link me the reddit thread where a Rioter decided to show he gave zero fucks about a suggestion? Holy shit...

I would be fine with a revert even if old Rengar was a feast or famine champion and could one shot if fed from stealth. I know how it feels to have your champion reworked into something that doesn't feel like him at all and Riot acts like it's all fine and then keeps changing him with no clue on what they're doing (6.23 Voidlings change) and they keep going like this for months, everytime making him even more different, just a horrible sensation of playing a double of your champion that leaves you with a feeling emptyness after every game no matter if you win or lose.

Doozku8 votes

https://www.reddit.com/r/Rengarmains/comments/5me2gt/some_thoughts_from_rengar_tweaks/dc33qke/

Edit: Not sure why it comes out as a big Reddit logo, clicking on it should take you to the link.

Hitman Reñgar5 votes

I just wanted you to know that you are a beautiful human being! <3 Warms my heart to read other players understand what we Rengar mains now have felt for half a year.

Eedat10 votes

Fun fact: Divers can still be played as assassins

ABlueQuaker3 votes

A Diver is simply an Assassin without an escape tool. Their kit provides some sort of durability to stay alive and get off multiple rotations of Spells. In this regard, Rengar is an exceptional Diver who can also function as a pretty decent Assassin if he gets an early lead (he's even fortunate enough to be able to build his first couple of items before committing to one build or the other).

Eedat4 votes

I understand what a Diver is. I've mained one since season 4.

Doozku6 votes

False. Most Divers are non-viable if built full damage. Including: Aatrox Jax Irelia Kled Rengar RekSai Shaco Warwick

edit: not wukong

Eedat12 votes

Most Divers are non-viable if built full damage. Including:

MonkeyKing

I main MonkeyKing. I think I know better than you what full AD MonkeyKing is and isnt capable of lol

Vallalan8 votes

full ad wukong is pretty much the only way to build him. if you build him bruiser he just isn't as good. you can do it, but the best wukong players go full ad and bllow up the backline at the right time.

Catastrop10 votes

{quoted}

and at least they don&#039;t ignore Karma mains and reply to them with passive-aggresive comments.

I don't which Rioters you're talking about here, pretty much everything Karma mains have ever added to a discussion on Karma got ignored in favour of some random yahoo who got one-shot with an RQ.

Doozku6 votes

I should have said that LB will get follow up work. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/uVg5hbiI-quick-gameplay-thoughts-may-25 Basically confirms that LB will get another rework soon.

American Sin8 votes

Did you see the abomination of the Garen art update? I realize you may be in a hurt place right now but let's put it in perspective, Garen used to be the penultimate macho champion, now he's a worthless douche.

Solitair5 votes

I never thought of him as macho. He always came across just as a muscular overly pure hero archetype doofus.

Hitman Reñgar7 votes

He doesn't feel ultra clunky to what he was before though..

Dusk Mane Rengar7 votes

"It's a part of the assassin rework, so of course he's going to be an assassin." Proof "Q: Nice meme."Proof

Just to show evidence.

Bolwinkel3 votes

I don't think you've seen Azir, my friend.

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