Meanwhile all of my master tier friends say he's not banned that often and say he's only worth picking in competitive because of 1-3-1 pushes or say he's shit in general.
Unless he's the new silver stomper (gonna say his winrate is 48% at best in silver without checking), idk why people still want him nerfed
also I main Kass before anybody wants to call me a Zed main.
Ratbert6 votesBecause we all know winrates mean everything :>) Good thing there's no such thing as a player who only plays what pros do without any consideration of their own skill or teamcomp.
Kariu Rena2 votesyeah sejunai is balanced i agree, just highest win rate across every elo and every region
Voluug131 votesRiot is going to nerf jungle tanks again before baddies notice counterjungling and slitpushing make Sejuani (and Amumu) worthless.
Kariu Rena1 votesonly baddie thinks counter jungling is still worth it 100%
Ratbert1 votesShe already had a high winrate before the tank buffs. She was also considered quite subpar and a rarity because no solo kill capability.
Kitten of Evil6 votesThe reason people want him still nerfed is that the AS nerfs really didn't hit his main problem. His main problem, people have been saying ALL ALONG, is his very safe waveclear, and his spammable skills which cost way less than other ninja's skills (35-40 energy less than Kennen and Akali at all levels, and 40-85 energy less than Shen). His get-out-of-jail-free ult is also somewhat of a problem, since Riot claims they want to encourage counterplay rather than risk-free engagements, though at least its damage can be mitigated or blocked with certain items. I'd like to see it reverted to its old form, when it created a second shadow right behind his enemy. More chance for damage, but no free escape. Sounds good for an assassin.
Back before mana regen nerfs, his waveclear was fine, because mid-lane mages could push just as hard. Now they can't. He used to be able to split push easily in addition to this, and while he still can split push fairly easily, the AS nerfs did slightly weaken that.
Voluug132 votesThis.
And
the AS nerfs did slightly weaken that.
Enfasis on slightly.
SpongebobIsLife1 votesnot really, Riot has defined an Assassin as someone who can get in, get a kill, and then get out. That's why almost all assassins except for like Talon, have an escape. The reason Riot considers Zed a healthy assassin is because he can do just that while also having several weaknesses. Yes he has a strong laning phase, but his teamfight sucks and he is easily countered by several items, champions, and summoner spells. I will admit his waveclear can be problematic in lane, but if he didn't have that then I think his laning phase would be sub par.
Kitten of Evil5 votesAssassin as someone who can get in, **get a kill, and then get out. ** That's why almost all assassins except for like Talon, have an escape.
I'd agree. But Zed (and also Leblanc) can get out even if they don't get that kill. That's the difference. And it's because their gap-closer moves also allow them to retreat instantly any time in the next 6 (or 4, for LB) seconds for no additional cost. Kat and Akali use their gap-closer and then they don't get a charge or a reset back unless they get a kill. So they can be punished if they miscalculate.
if he didn't have that then I think his laning phase would be sub par.
That's how assassins work. They usually have crappy laning phases because they roam and get kills. This is why their waveclear is usually either on a high-mana cost move (Talon's Rake, Leblanc's Distortion) or requires them to use their gap-closer on minions.
Voluug131 votesMarry me.
tofutime2 votesCompare Zed to Fizz. Everyone hates Fizz. How much harder is it for Fizz to lane and wave clear as opposed to Zed? Much harder. His escape is tied in with his only AOE skill. His last hitting requires him to melee range and doesn't have Zed's passive or AD to get insanely easy last hits. Zed has a free range/poke/farm skill in his Q. Fizz again, doesn't have this. All of his kit requires him to put himself in a bad position. Also a few uses of his E will put him oom. Zed has all these free laning tools as an assassin when an assassin should have a crappy laning phase like Fizz.
SpongebobIsLife1 voteshmm but notice that Fizz's teamfight is better than Zed's.
tofutime1 votesHow so? I don't value Fizz's teamfight above Zed's in the slightest. If your shark hits someone there's plenty of time for enemies to disperse from that area so the AOE from his ult is very situational. Zed's teamfight AOE isn't even bad since shadow W still does a lot of damage, his Q goes through infinite enemies. Fizz has single target damage on his Q and W. His E while AOE is his only escape and usually saved to get back out.
thinking man1 votes[{quoted}](name=Kitten of Evil,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZjWc5Kt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-04-09T02:29:45.075+0000)
The reason people want him still nerfed is that the AS nerfs really didn't hit his main problem. His main problem, people have been saying ALL ALONG, is his very safe waveclear, and his spammable skills which cost way less than other ninja's skills (35-40 energy less than Kennen and Akali at all levels, and 40-85 energy less than Shen). His get-out-of-jail-free ult is also somewhat of a problem, since Riot claims they want to encourage counterplay rather than risk-free engagements, though at least its damage can be mitigated or blocked with certain items. I'd like to see it reverted to its old form, when it created a second shadow right behind his enemy. More chance for damage, but no free escape. Sounds good for an assassin.
Back before mana regen nerfs, his waveclear was fine, because mid-lane mages could push just as hard. Now they can't. He used to be able to split push easily in addition to this, and while he still can split push fairly easily, the AS nerfs did slightly weaken that.
His main problem has been the fact that he splitpushes so well. His ult also isn't contradictive to encouraging counterplay since his damage has the most counterplay out of any assassin. You cannot QSS Rengar or Talon one-shotting you during the time it takes to blink. Furthermore, if they were to revert his ult back to what it was before, he'd just do what he did before where he R'd you then W'd out instead. Although it'd probably be a nerf since people would have to relearn him, that'd just make you die even faster since his shadow is next to you.
Because we all know winrates mean everything :>) Good thing there's no such thing as a player who only plays what pros do without any consideration of their own skill or teamcomp.
idk whose side you're on, even if people play a champion in elos where he sucks or into bad teamcomps, that still doesn't mean that they're good in that elo. Zed isn't really astoundingly popular either.
[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fZjWc5Kt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-04-09T01:58:23.033+0000)
For the "common" Zed-Players it´s just frustrating to lane against him mostly...he has got all the advantages and the all-in threat and it´s almost impossible to punish him for missplays.
That's when you retaliate since if he misses his WQ on you then you're free to do whatever you please.
Earl Eulrich5 votes70% winrate in proplay and ridiculous snowballing (just look at the TIP vs Grav game or the OC vs CWA game from earlier today...once Zed gets first blood you basically know the game is over at that point). Doesn´t matter that a lot of players are not on that level...it just indicates there are big flaws in his design that can be abused. For the "common" Zed-Players it´s just frustrating to lane against him mostly...he has got all the advantages and the all-in threat and it´s almost impossible to punish him for missplays.
Voluug133 votesThis and the fact that Zed is also the most picked Midlaner currently, and thus his winrates also dissolve from baddies and ''freelo'' seekers.
Kitten of Evil3 votesEven when baddies and freelo seekers use him, mid-lane is an unpleasant experience for everyone. The only champion who is less fun to lane against in mid is Leblanc.
Voluug132 votesYou forgot Nidalee.
ForgiveColour1 voteslets ignore the other 70% winrate champ because #feminism
SexyTaylorSwift4 votesThey want him nerfed because he has 0 weaknesses.
Voluug132 votesThe only thing you can do is abuse his mistakes.
SexyTaylorSwift3 votesHoping to have a BAD Zed is not counterplay lol.
Rinky Dinky2 votesZed isn't a problem at all anymore.
He has 2 counters that will be picked the second he is locked in.
Urgot and Cho'gath.
They even started doing this in lcs, and because of it, Zed is not picked very often now, because first picking him is asking to get shit on
Zair Umbras1 votesUrgot is not his counter and who ever told you he was is retarded. Cho is a counter only because Zed has a horrible early game damage outside of his poke while Cho has a bunch of sustain. Fizz is also considered a counter to Zed as well as Lissandra and really any tank ever that has some sort of sustain or innate defense against physical damage. This is why Zed is mid and not top lane.
Just because he's countered in lane though doesn't mean he's useless. We can look at Katarina and Akali, both of which got nerfs before they saw pro play. The most recent Katarina was done after the nerf hit, but hadn't hit for the pros yet, which says a lot. Zed IS a problem and he has been one since S3 when Faker showed us how ungodly Zed could be.
SpongebobIsLife2 votesmmm..apparently you haven't watched the lcs lately. Does Bjergensen's Zed vs Urgot ring a bell? Even the shoutcasters said urgot counters Zed.
Rinky Dinky1 votesNot only bjerg, most every teamstarted taking urgot against Zed, so much that Zed has only seen about 3 games out of the past 15
SpongebobIsLife2 votesYeah, urgot just makes it impossible for Zed to all in him.
Rinky Dinky1 votesExactly. He also reduces his damage.
Due to his point and click ult, he removes Zed from teamfights. Ult my Carry? I click R.
Cho is similar, just pop Q under the target he ults, and silence him. Beautiful.
Rinky Dinky1 votesYou are an idiot lol
But ok.
insaiyanbacca2 votesalso malz and annie are excellent zed counters
ForgiveColour1 votestips my fedora for still playing kass
