Anyone else feel like the recent Vayne buff was too much?

Jefftiffy·Oct 10, 2016·51 votes·2,370 views

I feel like bumping up her AD ratio on her Q should not have happened. If anything her AD on her ult should have been upgraded. Her entire goal is to live to 6 then start to catch up. Making her Q have an insane ratio leads to the current almost 1 shot Vayne builds we see now. Vayne critting for 1300 is a just a little bit of a problem when she is supposed to be a tank buster. Revert the Q buff, but buff her ult's AD bonus from ~~30/50/70~~ -> 40/60/80. And base AS growth from 4% -> 4.2%. 3.6% more at lvl 18.

37 Comments

Hayaishi2Oct 10, 201619 votes

Her ult giving her that much AD is ridiculous in the first place.

ZeeWolfZOct 10, 201610 votes

It's always nice to be 3 shotted by an adc who is 0/8

XeroKimoOct 10, 20165 votes

I actually find it kind of dumb, that Vayne's Q, the AD portion of her Q, is actually the only, I repeat ONLY empowered ability in the game, that is allowed to crit, Draven's Q doesn't crit, rengar's Q doesn't crit, so why does vayne's Q, even tho it's only 70% of her AD is allowed to crit

The Yetii RiderOct 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I actually find it kind of dumb, that Vayne's Q, the AD portion of her Q, is actually the only, I repeat ONLY empowered ability in the game, that is allowed to crit, Draven's Q doesn't crit, rengar's Q doesn't crit, so why does vayne's Q, even tho it's only 70% of her AD is allowed to crit

Yasuo Q crits.

Edit: GP Q crits as well

SchàdenfreudeOct 10, 20161 votes

Rengar Q also crits.

XeroKimoOct 10, 20164 votes

Not the bonus dmg from the skill, only the your AD does

I looked up so Yasuo's Q can also crit, so aside from that only vayne and Yasuo, are the only ones that the bonus dmg from the empowered auto that can crit, but the crit from yasuo's Q is farthur reduced than it's AA crits, compared to vayne her bonus dmg can fully crit

Vayne's Q + Crit = (AD + AD*0.7) *2.5 if it crits with IE

Yasuo's would deal = (100 + AD) * 2.5 * 0.75

Everyone else's bonus dmg goes = AD * 2.5 + bonus dmg from skill

The Yetii RiderOct 10, 20161 votes

I don't see the issue. Vayne builds less AD than every other marksman. And all the items that give crit chance other than I.E./ER do not give AD. So it's fair.

JefftiffyOct 10, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fYPWBtAB,comment-id=0006000000010000,timestamp=2016-10-10T17:26:52.380+0000)

I don't see the issue. Vayne builds less AD than every other marksman. And all the items that give crit chance other than I.E./ER do not give AD. So it's fair.

She builds about the same amount now. You can thank it to the higher AD ratio. An almost 1.0 ratio on a 2s CD (base CD no CDR) ability that can crit. No one finds the fact that every 2s she gets a crit for over 3.5x damage a problem while she is an AS champ that is meant to break tanks?

chipndip1Oct 11, 20161 votes

She's still not an "amazing" adc despite all this...so I don't see the issue. Jinx is blatantly stronger. Jhin is blatantly stronger. Vayne only now stands a fighting chance.

DunkinNoobsOct 10, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Not the bonus dmg from the skill, only the your AD does

I looked up so Yasuo's Q can also crit, so aside from that only vayne and Yasuo, are the only ones that the bonus dmg from the empowered auto that can crit, but the crit from yasuo's Q is farthur reduced than it's AA crits, compared to vayne her bonus dmg can fully crit

Vayne's Q + Crit = (AD + AD*0.7) *2.5 if it crits with IE

Yasuo's would deal = (100 + AD) * 2.5 * 0.75

Everyone else's bonus dmg goes = AD * 2.5 + bonus dmg from skill

You didn't look it up very well then. Only the AD scaling on Yasuo's Q can crit, and at a 25% penalty instead of 10%. This actually means Yasuo does less damage with his Q than his autos past 267 AD, assuming you have an IE.

XeroKimoOct 10, 20162 votes

Oh yea, just double checked it thanks, so vayne is the only champ that has an empowered auto that can crit

DunkinNoobsOct 10, 20161 votes

GP's Q base damage used to crit before he get rewoked IIRC. That's why old Critplank existed; shoot someone lake game for 70% of their hp. Obviously couldn't leave that in the rework with all the extra power they added to his kit though.

Dr RocksoooOct 13, 20161 votes

Hecarim E crits :)

PiVoRxOct 10, 20163 votes

Ridiculous thing is why they buff her at first place, oh wait, its Riot, they buff what is already strong and nerf already dumpstered.

JefftiffyOct 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Ridiculous thing is why they buff her at first place, oh wait, its Riot, they buff what is already strong and nerf already dumpstered.

I understand why she got buffed. She was doing pretty poorly even in her normal role. The question was how did buffing her most spammable AD modifier somehow make her better at what she does which is kill over time and duel. Instead of adding DPS and power spikes they added just huge burst on the skill that she maxes first anyways.

PiVoRxOct 10, 20162 votes

Champion that has such overloaded kit can never be called poor, vayne wasnt bad at all, there where just champions that where too strong. And Riot obviously, instead of nerfing overpowered ones to match vayne, buffed her to now shes overpowered as well to make it equal. Just Riots balancing logic.

AnidanOct 11, 20162 votes

Her kit is overloaded?

Passive - movement speed toward enemy. Pretty basic. Q - short-range dash with empowered auto afterward. Pretty basic. W - 3 consecutive hit passive that deals damage. Pretty basic. E - knockback that does damage; deals damage again and stuns if enemy hits terrain. More complex, but still basic. R - AD steroid, double passive's movespeed + invis on Q.

Her kit is really, really not overloaded. Her kit is actually pretty damn focused compared to most League kits.

I mean, complain about Vayne all you want, but at least use a proper criticism.

Lady HammerlockOct 11, 20163 votes

Vayne doing this much damage everyone bats an eye Caitlyn doing the same from double the range, nobody gives a fuck

XeroKimoOct 12, 20161 votes

Caitlyn needing conditions to deal sht ton of dmg, double the range, nobody gives a fk Vayne doing the same amount of dmg on a 80% chance every 2 seconds, everyone bats an eye

MLDzXnRRROct 10, 20162 votes

Vayne is in every second normal game (I play only normals)... It's annoying.

DunkinNoobsOct 10, 20162 votes

Considering that she still sucks: no, it wasn't too much.

GeshultzOct 10, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I feel like bumping up her AD ratio on her Q should not have happened. If anything her AD on her ult should have been upgraded. Her entire goal is to live to 6 then start to catch up. Making her Q have an insane ratio leads to the current almost 1 shot Vayne builds we see now. Vayne critting for 1300 is a just a little bit of a problem when she is supposed to be a tank buster. Revert the Q buff, but buff her ult's AD bonus from ~~30/50/70~~ -> 40/60/80. And base AS growth from 4% -> 4.2%. 3.6% more at lvl 18.

Well considering vayne just got a nerf this patch with the bugfix. it honestly only made her winrate go up by 1.8% on average before the patch. After patch 6.20 it went back down a slight amount Overall it just made her have less of a dps lose when she used her q to kite. When compared to other things overall there is more of an issue with other champions... Like Raylis and its users.

DevlinCrowOct 10, 20161 votes

I faced a Vayne in one of my last games (check history bruh), I was Rek'Sai with armor boots and Randiun Omen. Was trying to escape from a Vayne & Gnar, got Vayne E'd against the wall and nuked.

Over A THOUSAND TRUE DAMAGE I shit you not, how can I counter this? Nothing I could have done except simply not be defending my turret alone at that time, which isn't enough counterplay imo. Needs a cooldown on how often her true damage procs (one every 2 seconds?)

EDIT http://matchhistory.euw.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUW1/2877851841/33092957?tab=overview

ObeifyOct 10, 20161 votes

I am an ADC main so this made me smile, but you are right, nothing you can do. Right now building Thronmail wont even save you but when you face a vayne you want point click CC to be a little tanky and you want to run into her and do damage, not run away. Sion, Moakai, Nocturne, Irelia, Renekton, Garen, Darius, Amumu, Morde, Liss and most assassins really hurt vayne. The point is if you run away she will kill you, so you are best off diving her.

DevlinCrowOct 10, 20161 votes

Yeah after that I pretty much focused her CC'd and nuked I stopped the snowball but we still lost and I was sweating ballsacks. No other ADC makes me work so hard to beat them. I'm not saying she's OP as she has clearly defined weaknesses but it's one of the most unenjoyable experiences in LoL when you're building full anti-AD and still get hit so hard..

ObeifyOct 10, 20161 votes

My Ezreal and Jinx is pretty anti fun. Ezreal you just cant catch me and I kite you to death, and Jinx I just wait for the fight to start turn on my rocketd and get tri0le kills from 1000 range.

pupper goes woofOct 11, 20161 votes

As someone that plays a lot of Vayne, you get to suffer for the first 20 minutes of the game only to get 1shot by the enemy Viktor if you misposition even once. Against a large number of picks you become effectively zoned out of fights until key cooldowns are used, during which you are completely useless unlike several other ADs that have safety due to abilities and range. Would you like for me to complain about that? She's a champion designed to blow up tanks, so if you let her auto you over and over for w procs then of course you're going to get blown up.

Her kit does invalidate a lot of tanks, but that doesn't mean she is overpowered. I honestly feel like the only people that complain about Vayne are tank/juggernaut onetricks that haven't had the chance to shit on her, which honestly isn't hard.

On the post, if Vayne is using her empowered q on a squishy, then it also means she is both out of position and out of escapes. If you cannot punish her for doing that, it means your teamfight was already lost and that Vayne is simply cleaning up or you are trying to 1v1 her, which is playing to her (and one of the few) strengths.

DevlinCrowOct 11, 20161 votes

Over 1000 true damage off 3 Q procs with 2 full items against a full hp/armor tank is BS you can't deny it. No other ADC has this issue and they all have the same issues as Vayne except she has a really bad early game

VenedictosOct 10, 20161 votes

I think that since other Marksmen have way more things going for them, Vayne is fine with the buff. She isn't that powerful anyway, she's very squishy and very punishable in lane.

1 800 Top LaneOct 10, 20161 votes

Being a tank lategame 45mins+ having over 5kHP a vayne ulting in and hitting me 3 times and I'm dead is absurd. At this rate you're making tanks useless. Or is that the overall goal for season 7?

LaçezOct 10, 20161 votes

I really hope Riot reads this

ThatHaleStateOct 11, 20161 votes

Just deal with it for now, they will revisit her very soon more than likely. Due to the fact that she will fall under the "invisibility" portion of stealth, which means that pink wards will no longer reveal her Q during her ultimate. They will obviously be looking at all stealthed champions to make sure that this inevitable buff doesnt push them to far out of the balance realm.

LankPantsOct 11, 20161 votes

Vayne's going to need to take some pretty massive nerfs going into the preseason where her stealth will no longer be effected by pinks. She's probably the only stealth champ who'll be retaining true stealth who's currently above average.

HeavysuitOct 11, 20161 votes

Why she get buffed in the first place? She was super good her early game was little weak but late game was crazy.

Critmaster GarenOct 11, 20161 votes

any buff to vayne is usually too much.

she has an incredibly unstable power curve. due to just how obscene her lategame is, buffing any aspect of her that even slightly improves her early game creates the risk of vayne powerspiking too early in too many games and becoming a massive pain in the ass and top meta pick.

add to the fact that marksmen are usually always outrival each other and there are at all times only 2 or 3 top marksmen picks, it adds to the problem of vayne suddenly showing up in every single game.

Weasel KenseiOct 11, 20161 votes

The problem with the "Tank Buster" myth about Vayne, is that silver bolts true damage is JUST as effective against squishy targets; yes the numbers are lower, but its the same % as tanks.

Combine that with the same bullshit assassin design as champs like Ahri and Malz where they hit you with CC then rip most of your health off while you cant fight back meaning you can only run away and they have kits to make running away hard... shes too good vs too much. She gets ahead, no way to stop her, shes just ahead now... I mean you cant send a tank in to lock her down while an ADC gets her, shes slippery and may even kill the ADC then kite the tank to death.

Shes in that weird place like LeBlanc where the numbers have to be sub optimal or they are out of control (season 5 Vayne in every game), but still playable. As for 1300 crits, 1k crits are bad enough, but she can go over 1k. I think this is a problem because its such a painful initiation that most ADCs cant inflict enough back to win a fight. Too much front loaded burst. It wouldnt be as bad if she didnt also have her E to potentially auto win fights.

Vayne is probably not going to ever see any sort of proper fine tuning, just going to be kept functional but not META like LeBlanc, Urgot, and other champs that have problems.

SohleksOct 11, 20161 votes

Oh she is probably OP (absolutely will be with stealth changes) but it was still a good direction I think to raise Q damage so she can level it and function with her full kiting power sooner putting away W max/attackspeed builds that apparently she wasn't working with anyways. Cause her Q ranks help her dodge much more often and if she's not making much of a damage tradeoff early she can function sooner for those mid game teamfights she might not even be level 11 yet.

I'm usually in favor of options and balance between builds and ranking skills but in this case this greatly improves her viability if her evasiveness isn't so delayed in levels.

So yeah maybe nerf her ult AD

Maybe it is weird Q hits so hard though and I wonder its burst potential trading her 2nd zeal item for an essence reaver instead for even faster harder hitting rolling. That hurts her dps though. But my theory is essence reaver is very slot and stat efficient and so the terror of Vayne rolling for 1 second stealth every 1.4 seconds..?

She still probably best functions with two attack speed items though so there's no room for ER plus lifesteal plus defense utility.