and everyone calls him trash after one. He then becomes dominant again, and everyone is like 'when did he got so strong?' This means Riot isn't hitting him in the right places. Hit him where it'll actually hurt. His energy, it'll allow good Zed players to still be able to manage it, but bad Zed players will have a much more difficult time comboing with energy constraints.
Leblancs Boob5 votesHe's too safe. Can't get zoned and farms so easily no matter no badly he's beaten. Picked a bad engage? Oh just recast R and get out insantly. An assassin shouldn't be that forgiving.
Phero4 votesHe's too safe. Can't get zoned and farms so easily no matter no badly he's beaten. Picked a bad engage? Oh just recast R and get out insantly. An assassin shouldn't be that forgiving.
This. You can push his shit in and make him farm under tower but his AOE skills let him farm just fine and dandy. Just waiting for 6 so he can herp derp and if not derp, then just herp back and try again. Baby's first assassin.
Phero2 votesAny champ that is "ult heavy" is a problem. I just played against Zed mid as Lux. Killed him pre 6 and nearly killed him again but jungler saved him(my jungler never did anything). Then he hit 6, being behind in everything and he dove me and killed me no problem. He got out with maybe 2-300 hp which is plenty at that stage.
For a balanced champ such as Lux, even if she is balanced on the weak side, she doesn't have to rely on her ult for every kill. She will wither a target down and if they refuse to play safe or back, she'll get them, ult or not.
Here we have a pretty bad Zed player, getting smacked around in lane and then he get's his get out of jail free card and kills me no problem. That's rewarding bad play.
Even a hated champ such as Fizz doesn't NEED his ult to kill someone and his Ult can be sidestepped.
Kuroi861 votesSounds like you were low health, when playing against an assassin, that's kind of one thing you want to avoid.
Phero2 votesThey just need to start balancing everything but purely numbers. It's as if the champs are holy even if they are brand new, they don't dare change an ability that's too much or too little or just doesn't represent the kit properly.
It's a typical bullshit top down approach, here is the champion, he is perfect, now u live team slaves can try to make sense of him but don't you DARE change his skills.
Recent example: Rek'sai's burrowed Q, wtf is that? A sonar for highlighting people you can't hope to catch? "I SEE YOU!!! THERE YOU GO! NOW YOU'RE GONE" " I SAW YOU THOUGH, I HELPED"
FiraBurn2 votesErrr. He seems perfect the way he is. He has a lot of counterplay and take a lot skills to play so stop crying "op" and learn to counter him. You can easily tell a good zed from a bad zed and bad zeds should be no problem for anyone.
Knight SoIaire 1 votesand everyone calls him trash after one. He then becomes dominant again
its because nerfs never realy destroy a champion as far as he is healthy
when we get a guy like olaf or elise and kassadin riot hammers them down because they need we well made rework to realy ballance them
while zed gets nerfs that make him less op
so we cleared the dust, lest go to the main point ppl complain about zed because he has one unhealthy part in his kit its his razor shuriken which makes him unable to lose the lane, either he wins or he farms
thats why ppl complain despite him not being an insanely powerfull pick, since whatever they do zed is always having a good time and always competes to his team
instead of another nerf to the numbers riot needs to force zed to actualy commit to farm the lane (q range seems to be the problem)
SeargentAnus1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fXhiM2EH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2014-12-31T21:04:51.615+0000)
its because nerfs never realy destroy a champion as far as he is healthy
when we get a guy like olaf or elise and kassadin riot hammers them down because they need we well made rework to realy ballance themwhile zed gets nerfs that make him less op
so we cleared the dust, lest go to the main point ppl complain about zed because he has one unhealthy part in his kit its his razor shuriken which makes him unable to lose the lane, either he wins or he farms
thats why ppl complain despite him not being an insanely powerfull pick, since whatever they do zed is always having a good time and always competes to his team
instead of another nerf to the numbers riot needs to force zed to actualy commit to farm the lane (q range seems to be the problem)
I agree that his Q seems to be his main issue. It allows for everything he could ever want in one ability. Razor Shuriken **** RANGE: 900 COST: 75 / 70 / 65 / 60 / 55 ENERGY COOLDOWN: 6 PHYSICAL DAMAGE: 75 / 115 / 155 / 195 / 235 (+ 100% bonus AD) SECONDARY DAMAGE: 45 / 69 / 93 / 117 / 141 (+ 60% bonus AD) MIMICKED SHURIKEN: 37.5 / 57.5 / 77.5 / 97.5 / 117.5 (+ 50% bonus AD) MIMICKED SECONDARY DAMAGE: 22.5 / 34.5 / 46.5 / 58.5 / 70.5 (+ 30% bonus AD)
Looking at the Bonus AD he's getting 150% bonus on first target hit, and 90% on every other target hit. For damage at lvl 2 he's getting 113.5 for first target hit +15 if he started long sword, or 67.5 +9 for every secondary target hit. This is assuming that he hits everything with both which is a bit extreme. His W Q combo at lvl 2 costs 75 +40 Energy, or 115 Energy. This combo can be cast every 18 seconds.
This'll begin to hurt if you allow it to hit over and over again. Maybe the issue isn't damage, but the width of the Q, and its speed.
Kuroi861 votesThis'll begin to hurt if you allow it to hit over and over again. Maybe the issue isn't damage, but the width of the Q, and its speed.
Drop the width down a hair and lower the missile speed by ten? Just for starters to see how it would affect him.
SeargentAnus1 votesDrop the width down a hair and lower the missile speed by ten? Just for starters to see how it would affect him.
They need to do something on the PBE with these champions. Honestly they should expand PBE servers, and let more people in. Most specifically silver-gold elo to get an average sense of balance.
Kuroi861 votesNot sure if I'd drop as low as silver. Part of balancing is trying to ensure that at the highest skill of play that a champion isn't overly dominant or unviable due to being nerfed too weak (though there are cases that need reworks to make them viable.) But that's just the two cents from a bronzie.
SeargentAnus2 votesNot sure if I'd drop as low as silver. Part of balancing is trying to ensure that at the highest skill of play that a champion isn't overly dominant or unviable due to being nerfed too weak (though there are cases that need reworks to make them viable.) But that's just the two cents from a bronzie.
Silver is the majority of the ranked community. They have a place to talk about champion balance.
Kuroi861 votesand everyone calls him trash after one. He then becomes dominant again, and everyone is like 'when did he got so strong?' This means Riot isn't hitting him in the right places. Hit him where it'll actually hurt. His energy, it'll allow good Zed players to still be able to manage it, but bad Zed players will have a much more difficult time comboing with energy constraints.
Hm, truthfully they couldn't hit him hard here. I picked Zed up the other week and I can already say that energy management is tricky. You can easily blow most of your energy in one shot with relatively little results to speak of. It's a feasible change, but needs to be handled carefully.
Marenjii1 votesI think the issue is how much backloaded damage his ult gives him, even though he has a fair bit of front loaded damage.At 6 he does not have to whittle you down except for hitting a Q, or 2 before going in, and blowing his whole combo with bilgewater, ignite, and an auto to proc his passive.
Also make it so that he can't recast R for 1 or 2 seconds, so he can't instantly go in, and jump back out if something unfavorable happens.
Spacefight0r1 votesZed actually isn't particularly strong. He is just a popular ban right now. IIRC, even his diamond win rate wasn't very high. (note: that doesn't mean he isn't an exceptional duelist/splitpusher/assassin, it just means being an exceptional duelist/splitpusher/assassin doesn't win games)
Zed wasn't "strong even after the nerfs". Perhaps you haven't noticed this, but this game is balanced through a continuous cycle of nerfs. Zed isn't stronger, other strong picks just got weaker over time. You'll see this again and again. Hell, if you took present day zed against the champion pool as it was when he was released, he'd absolutely get wrecked.
jv21blU7oD1 votesI think he has too much damage in the laning phase with how strong he scales with items. Tone down the kage bunshin damages or just lower his base damages a bit and he should be fine.
Only Play Darius1 votesThe problem is the mana regen nerfs. Zed is pretty vulnerable to poking, now that is no longer feasible because if you poke too much you run out of mana and while you return to base he gets the opportunity to roam and get uninterrupted cs, which causes him to snowball. Riot nerfed the laning phase of nearly every mana champion, which is why suddenly you see champs that don't rely on man , like zed-riven-kat-yasuo-garen-rengar, picked much more often, they simply are impossible to force out of lane if you are playing a champ that uses mana.
kromon1k1 votesI never understood the complaint about zed.
If you are facing him mid lane you just pick a mage and rush zhonya's. He now has 0 kill potential on you, while you have far superior AOE damage/zoning capabilities.
If you are playing adc you ignore him during laning phase. A ward in the river will stop any roaming zed tries to do on you. Late game you pick up a qss. He now has 0 kill potential on you.
The only thing zed is good for is laning. It's true that it's almost impossible to stop him from farming, but what does that matter if he can't do anything with his farm? Out of all the assassins, he has the lowest killing capability. I'd chose to face a zed anyday over a fizz, akali, etc. When zed dives me I at least have real counterplay options. When any other assassin dives me I just have to sit there and pray that they mess up their keystroke order, or misclick a minion or something.