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820k Nasus mastery here with a rework

The Cane Master··2 votes·2,135 views
http://imgur.com/sO5VitK

First of all, yes, even though I have 820k Nasus mastery he's not my most played champion. Secondly, I see PBE changes to Nasus and DrMundo about which I'm quite dubious (E applying less armor pen until enemy targets have >110 armor). Thirdly, no matter what they do with Nasus and DrMundo they require a full scale rework. The reasons for Nasus are release date (2009 which was 8 years ago), way too binary kit to compete with the newer champions, too slow scaling due to the fastest meta ever, automatic post 20 min. homeguard bonus+baron buff empowered recall countering split push strategy.

To start off with, Nasus is a Shuriman champion, meaning that SAND should be his primal theme, which we don't see at current version of the Cane. Since Nasus has little to no utility (one single target slow that he maxes last and no hard CC) it needs to go up:

Besides having current lifesteal (10/15/20 at levels 1/7/13), New Passive:: Every X times damaged by Nasus , get Grounded for X seconds. This works great since he has two dots (E and R), and it's the softest form of CC (even worse than slow) but it would sure keep pesky Yasuo from jumping around while the doggo Nasus only barks out of damage distance. The animation of the grounded thingy could be kept underneath the enemy feet, so that enemies are aware how soon it's gonna proc.

Q: The same as the current one, it's his signature ability and it should be kept the same. Since new item 3075 applies Grievous Wounds, adding to item 3123 as one of the cheapest and easiest ways to counter Nasus , MAYBE every 3rd Q should apply true lifesteal, that is disregard all forms of lowering the healed amount. Also add a little paddle of sand that swallows minions with Q last hit to add to the theme.

W: Same as the current one+applies a debuff that prevents MS and AS steroids to be applied. This is his W theme, lowering MS And AS effects, but it sure is useless when Gangplank procs his barrel and walks of the entirety of the Wither duration. Again, even though it is an empowered version of this one, it serves the purpose of making people running away from him harder.

E: Summons a Sandstorm that keeps people in it nearsighted. Sand bitcheees, could anyone even see while standing in the Sandstorm IRL? No Darude memes please. :D

R: Since this ability increases Nasus 's size, he's having a raid-boss like playstyle, and struggles by being kited really hard (especially with displacement effects), so it should maybe grant a buff that keeps Nasus immune to displacement effects (Olaf gets a full CC immunity+MS steroid with his ult, this is a light version of it).

Let me hear your thoughts, but please only constructive ones, let's make Nasus great again (as if he ever was)!

37 Comments

TheHappyReaperz5 votes

This seems like it adds a lot of uncounterable stuff to Nasus. Want to buy GW to counter his healing? Too bad, so sad. Want to run away from the raid boss? To bad Wither slows ya. No worries, you have a MS buff in your kit to help you run away. Nevermind, can't use that for 5 seconds. At least you have a dash..... and you can't do that either. I get that Nasus needs buffs, but adding more CC, and making it harder to do anything against him, really isn't the way to go. Making his kit more skill expressive, or making his early-game and late-game more effective, seems like it would be better.

The Cane Master1 votes

Yes, it would add many uncounterable stuff to Nasus but only because he is countered by a lof of stuff. Let's put it this way and it might turn the tables:

Nasus wants to stack in peace - no can do, he's a melee champion with no dashes or MS boosts, meaning that you can harrass him all day long. But wait, he can lifesteal it back - no can do, just by a 900g itemitem 3076 or 1000g version item 3123 and he's fucked. Even if (by some miracle) he survives the laning phase while getting a decent number of stacks, now he can rush you with his ''overpowered slow'' and hunt you down - no can do, he has no dashes, no hard CC, no ms steroids, while he is countered by all that (especially knockbacks, hence the new ult version). My suggestion still make Nasus a Juggernaut with many counters, while Riot can bring an AOE pull to Darius , a shit ton of guaranteed armor pen, and even if you get armor he still shits on you with his HALF HP TRUE DMG DUNKS and still continue to dunk until he's done a pentakill, and still call him a Juggernaut even to Nasus . I mean just look at the numbers, Darius has 56% win ratio against Nasus ALL THE WHILE being a better teamfighter and having the almost identical durability.

Ralanr3 votes

Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter. Not sure why you're complaining about item 3076 since that only gives GW for one second If you auto attack them which you can just choose not to do or just try and get your lifesteal off of minions.

What is the weakness of your rework?

The Cane Master2 votes

Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter.

If Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter, how come he loses 1v1 to Darius almost always, while applying worse armor pen and being way worse in teamfights as well?

Not sure why you're complaining about item 3076 since that only gives GW for one second If you auto attack them which you can just choose not to do or just try and get your lifesteal off of minions.

Maybe because Nasus 80% of the damage comes from auto attacks and Qs (that are also coded as auto attacks)?

What is the weakness of your rework?

The weakness are mages, Gragas , Galio , Kennen , Vladimir , Akali and all other that now shit on Nasus would certainly continue to do so in even with this new version. Also ad lane bullies Gnar , Yasuo , Irelia give Nasus a hard time which I don't see how it would get any better with all these improvements.

Ralanr3 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVQQYARj,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-13T18:33:13.634+0000)

If Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter, how come he loses 1v1 to Darius almost always, while applying worse armor pen and being way worse in teamfights as well?

Well for one, Darius is a lane bully that scales into mid while Nasus is meant to have a weak early thanks to his infinite stacking passive.

And two: Darius is a much better designed champion than Nasus.

The weakness are mages, Gragas , Galio , Kennen , Vladimir , Akali and all other that now shit on Nasus would certainly continue to do so in even with this new version. Also ad lane bullies Gnar , Yasuo , Irelia give Nasus a hard time which I don't see how it would get any better with all these improvements.

Unlikely. If his current ranges are kept the same on his W and E then he doesn't need to get that close to apply his slow or even his sand storm, which would lead to procing his grounded passive and making it difficult to run away.

And lane bullies wouldn't mean much if you can remove their ability to chase (with the grounded) and have enough sustain (that can't be negated) to survive poke.

I really don't see how this Nasus would even be fair to fight. He'd be harder to poke out of lane, and nearly impossible to 1v1 simply because he takes away your tools to 1v1.

This is not a rework, this is a power fantasy.

Brutalitops013 votes

Alright, I think that you should leave the sandstorm nearsight off of his E. Allow me to explain why.

His E is using Ascended powers to light the ground on fire, not a sandstorm.

Instead, put it on his ultimate, which I'm pretty sure reads that he summons a sandstorm around him.

R: Fury of the Sands: Nasus unleashes a mighty sandstorm that batters nearby enemies, dealing % max health magic damage every second and inflicting Nearsight, preventing them from seeing outside of the range (similar to Graves's E). For the duration, Nasus grows in size and gains health, armor, magic resistance, and AD. The bonuses all increase over the duration. Perhaps even make the AD count as base AD to influence building a Sheen item even more.

The Cane Master1 votes

I appreciate your constructive criticism. However people already complain about Nasus's damage, and although it's not a bad suggestion, I somehow have a feeling that this kind of change might be harder to accept by the community. Also applying 'Nearsighted effect' for the whole duration of the Nasus ultimate is kinda too powerful? I mean if he would have an option to keep people near him (with new passive and W), don't you think that added to that people fighting Nasus would be nearsighted for 15 seconds non-stop? Meaning that they wouldn't be able to see anything by him, meaning incoming ganks as a prime danger, while being forced into his melee range all the time. I do like the idea, but if added to all the other proposed changes, it might be too strong.

Ralanr3 votes

I don't think Nasus needs that much of a sand theme.

Your Q and passive just makes late Nasus incredibly unfair to fight against and it makes it even more ridiculous on top of the displacement immunity on top of his ult.

Effectively you're just turning Nasus into not only more of a massive stat check, but one who frankly removes his basic counterplay.

rework trundle2 votes

He doesn't need a full VGU, only Rek'Sai/Brand etc level.

The Cane Master2 votes

VGU means Visual Gameplay Update, I'm referring to GU (Gameplay Update only).

Angormus2 votes

850k Mastery points, D3 100lp right now and master tier last season with only Nasus. Passive: Honestly, Nasus's passive is fine, lifesteal is all he needs. Q: I think we should wait to see until the patch for 7.15 goes for Nasus, but I think this could be interesting at least, true healing isn't something that exists in the game however. W: I mean, it's already a 35-47% slow at level 1, going to a 35-95% slow at level 5, that's pretty rough already... E: Blinds aren't fun to play against, period. If anything this would suit Nasus's R already, but his R is already overloaded. R: No changes need to be made to Nasus's ult, it's already pretty strong.

Seems like you're just trying to overbuff Nasus cause you have a low winrate on him, stop. All Nasus needs is the % armor penetration on his E from PBE, the R thing would be nice as well though.

FlameanatorX1 votes

Only ever been as high as Plat, but yeah, this "rework," which is really just a bunch of buffs and a weird nerf/change to E, would be absurd. Taking away way too much counter-play without adding any more is not how you make a champion healthier.

Angormus1 votes

I agree completely, all these changes would do is take away his counterplay, the only change Nasus really needed was access to % armor penetration like the other juggernauts he's most often compared to by Riot, and in 7.15 that seems about where it's headed.

SwiftKitten882 votes

honest option? this looks nothing like a rework.... this looks like flat out buffs.

the ONLY way to keep a nasus from destroying late game is to keep him to about 100 stacks per ten min... that is already nearly impossible to do if the nasus is any good at him.

Your "rework" gives nasus no weaknesses in return for said buffs and just adds another effect tacked on to the abilities you had..

as a nidalee main i was actually excited to read your ideas for him, but your not "reworking him at all.. I thought that maybe you would have enough games to know what defines his strengths and weaknesses, but no.. you just asking for flat out buffs. it saddens me you are trying to use your "mastery" with a champion to try to block what i see as blatant bias.

use your knowledge of the champion to give him strengths AND WEAKNESSES that fit him.

you completely skipped the "weakness" part

The Cane Master1 votes

you completely skipped the ''weakness'' part

He has so many weaknesses that he hasn't be used competitively for the 4th consecutive season, and is never going to be if he doesn't get his utility buffed. Since his inherent weakness is not having hard CC, I kept it within those boundaries, you haven't noticed it?

Ravenous Howls2 votes

No and I am sorry I won't go into much more detail but people have already said what I would have thought would be a travesty of your suggestions. They are ambitious and have some nice thought put into them but ultimately make him either far too powerful or potentially even more useless than he can be now.

The Cane Master1 votes

If your response to ,,If Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter, how come he loses 1v1 to Darius almost always, while applying worse armor pen and being way worse in teamfights as well? is:

Well for one, Darius is a lane bully that scales into mid while Nasus is meant to have a weak early thanks to his infinite stacking passive.

And two: Darius is a much better designed champion than Nasus.

What makes you say Darius isn't a power fantasy of Juggernauts? He actually is, no Juggernaut beats Darius , and certainly none is a better teamfighter.

Unlikely. If his current ranges are kept the same on his W and E then he doesn't need to get that close to apply his slow or even his sand storm, which would lead to procing his grounded passive and making it difficult to run away.

To proc his Grounded effect one would have to get hit by E 3 times, meaning that he would need to stand still in his E for 1.5 seconds all the while being able to dash away, MS boost away, or just walk away casually.

And lane bullies wouldn't mean much if you can remove their ability to chase (with the grounded) and have enough sustain (that can't be negated) to survive poke.

Procing Grounded would be much harder than you think, and sustain would be 1/3 better, which would barely squeeze Nasus into a non-insta death HP range if he decides to farm anywhere outside his turret range (as the opposite is the case now).

I really don't see how this Nasus would even be fair to fight. He'd be harder to poke out of lane, and nearly impossible to 1v1 simply because he takes away your tools to 1v1.

Playing as Nasus already isn't fair to begin with. He gets poked out of lane rather easily with any ranged/mage champion, while getting 1v1-ed until mid game against all non tanks.

Ralanr2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVQQYARj,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-07-13T18:51:08.924+0000)

If your response to ,,If Nasus isn't supposed to be a teamfighter, how come he loses 1v1 to Darius almost always, while applying worse armor pen and being way worse in teamfights as well? is:

What makes you say Darius isn't a power fantasy of Juggernauts? He actually is, no Juggernaut beats Darius , and certainly none is a better teamfighter.

Darius is the power fantasy of a juggernaut, but he comes with weaknesses that his kit doesn't provide full answers to (his kit provides the weaknesses). Darius would have to build right to answer his kiting problem. Giving Nasus a way to counter kiting on a basic passive is just ridiculous and covers too many weaknesses of the champion too easily.

To proc his Grounded effect one would have to get hit by E 3 times, meaning that he would need to stand still in his E for 1.5 seconds all the while being able to dash away, MS boost away, or just walk away casually.

Procing Grounded would be much harder than you think, and sustain would be 1/3 better, which would barely squeeze Nasus into a non-insta death HP range if he decides to farm anywhere outside his turret range (as the opposite is the case now).

This is the passive you typed up:

New Passive:: Every X times damaged by Nasus , get Grounded for X seconds. This works great since he has two dots (E and R), and it's the softest form of CC (even worse than slow)

Nowhere does it say it requires someone to get hit three times, it does says every X times gets damaged by Nasus they get grounded for X seconds. This is incredibly vague because you do not explain what X is. The number of times it takes to require damage? The enemy champion?

And again, you're providing an easy answer to Nasus's biggest intended weakness on a basic passive that already provides lifesteal.

Playing as Nasus already isn't fair to being with. He gets poked out of lane rather easily with any ranged/mage champion, while getting 1v1-ed until mid game against all non tanks.

Yeah, and that's what he gets in exchange for infinite scaling passive. Why the hell do you think Nasus has been in a weak state for a long time? It's because his kit isn't exactly the easiest to balance. At least Veigar is squishy with his infinite scaling damage. Nasus doesn't build squishy because of how his Q works, which allows him to be as durable as he can build and still keep a damage output that can take down towers in no time at all.

Yeah it sucks to fight in lane as Nasus, it also sucks to deal with a Nasus who can kill you with one Q because he farmed in top lane. You think negating his weakness to kiting is going to make him fair? He would be dumpstered statwise to compensate for these changes.

You'd make Nasus worse.

The Cane Master1 votes

Giving Nasus a way to counter kiting on a basic passive is just ridiculous and covers too many weaknesses of the champion too easily.

New passive would only make him able to counter people who dash/run away from his W, it wouldn't increase his hard CC and teamfight potential whatsoever (except for a multi target Smoke Grenade version of his E, which is already the weakest kind of utility in the game).

Nowhere does it say it requires someone to get hit three times, it does says every X times gets damaged by Nasus they get grounded for X seconds. This is incredibly vague because you do not explain what X is. The number of times it takes to require damage? The enemy champion?

3 times getting hit would be the minimum, it could scale with levels of ability or even Nasus's levels.

And again, you're providing an easy answer to Nasus's biggest intended weakness on a basic passive that already provides lifesteal.

Because there has just been added another easy solution to one of his biggest strengths (lifesteal) with 900g item 3076 added to 1000g item 3123. And no, making his passive 1/3 better and only against if facing Grievous Wounds opponent is not an ,,easy answer''. There is also no reason to pick melee ad top laner into Nasus because his Wither counters it somewhat, even this basic version. Then again there is Darius .

Yeah, and that's what he gets in exchange for infinite scaling passive. Why the hell do you think Nasus has been in a weak state for a long time? It's because his kit isn't exactly the easiest to balance.

His ''infinite scaling passive'' doesn't allow his get more than 400-500 stacks at best before the games are decided in this super fast paced meta (and 400 stacks don't make him to significantly more damage than any other top laner). His kit is not the easiest to balance because it's binary and has many counters, against which I've tried making new Nasus somewhat immune.

One of things I've just thought of is allowing Nasus to stack multiple units with item 3025 and/or item 3077 aoe effect. It would require an art of setting up the creep wave in order to last hit more than one minion at the time, but it would speed up his wave clear/split push potential if done correctly.

Ralanr2 votes

Nasus is binary, I don't see how you're making him less binary which is the primary goal of reworking a champion to be more healthy.

And if Nasus's stacks capped at like 400-500 you'd have a point, but they don't and Riot has to balance around the fact that they grow infinitely.

The Cane Master1 votes

Nasus is binary, I don't see how you're making him less binary which is the primary goal of reworking a champion to be more healthy.

Well new Grounded passive would be the prime thing to get mastery for, all the while not really increasing his power, accompanied by not increasing his skill cap much.

And if Nasus's stacks capped at like 400-500 you'd have a point, but they don't and Riot has to balance around the fact that they grow infinitely.

Nasus 's stacks are theoretically infinite, but believe me when I (820k Nasus player) tells you that he has 400-500 stacks at the time games are decided. Further stacks have diminishing returns with armor items being built late game, as well as split pushing being at a really awkward spot right now (homeguard bonus post 20 min. baron buff empowered recalls+empowering minions that he can't split push a lane with a single baron buff carrier etc.)

Ralanr2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVQQYARj,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-07-13T19:37:54.618+0000)

Well new Grounded passive would be the prime thing to get mastery for, all the while not really increasing his power, accompanied by not increasing his skill cap much.

So getting an ability that directly counters his main weakness while not increasing his skill cap is fine?

Also are you actually going to use the reply button or no?

The Cane Master1 votes

So getting an ability that directly counters his main weakness while not increasing his skill cap is fine?

An ability that requires skill, meaning his skill cap is actually somewhat increased, as the potential benefit is also only somewhat increased (it doesn't do jack shit against mages or ranged champions that are the prime counters to Nasus ). Also applying Grounded doesn't mean Nasus becomes immune to overwhelming amount of slows, stuns, snares, knockups, silences, polymorphs, grounded effect itself.

Also are you actually going to use the reply button or no?

Yeah, of course I am.

Ralanr1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Cane Master,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fVQQYARj,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-13T19:53:14.457+0000)

An ability that requires skill, meaning his skill cap is actually somewhat increased, as the potential benefit is also only somewhat increased (it doesn't do jack shit against mages or ranged champions that are the prime counters to Nasus ). Also applying Grounded doesn't mean Nasus becomes immune to overwhelming amount of slows, stuns, snares, knockups, silences, polymorphs, grounded effect itself.

No, but an ult making him immune to displacements and Stormraiders helps.

The Cane Master1 votes

No, but an ult making him immune to displacements and Stormraiders helps.

Is there an issue with it? Also Who says Stormraiders mastery is still going to be relevant with new Runes Reforged?

Ralanr1 votes

We don't know.

Is Nasus meant to be a splitpusher or a teamfighter here?

The Cane Master1 votes

Is Nasus meant to be a splitpusher or a teamfighter here?

Nasus' design strengths are still the same, split pushing and 1v1-ing. This new abilities make him better in teamfights since he's, by far, the most kiteable champion in the game.

Ralanr1 votes

I don't think he should be better at teamfights given his power as a split push champion.

The Cane Master1 votes

I don't think he should be better at teamfights given his power as a split push champion.

Because despite him a strong 1v1 champion, he can fall behind and become the undisputed worst champion in the game. And not only because of 1v1 outplay/missplay, but because he's immobile and very weak in the laning phase, meaning that if he gets ganked/camped he is going to die 100%. Voila, you are playing the most useless champion in the game for the next 20 minutes while trying to farm your deficit back all the while having your team getting slaughtered by enemy team 4v5.

Ralanr2 votes

And the answer to this is to make him a teamfighter without weakening his ability to splitpush?

The Cane Master1 votes

And the answer to this is to make him a teamfighter without weakening his ability to splitpush?

Yes, split pushers like Trundle and Yorick have the same split push power while being waaay better teamfighters, which is why they are viable to be used competitively while Nasus hasn't been anywhere close to meta for the 4th year in a row.

Calabok1 votes

nothing wrong with Nasus. leave him alone.

The Cane Master1 votes

Not being used competitively for the 4th consecutive season is wrong, not to mention that he doesn't work in higher elo.

BeatzBoyFTW1 votes

You spelt Tryndamere wrong. And I'm very sure Nasus did saw some spotlight at LCS around last season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgQQZuuMkbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71HWwrivfY

The Cane Master1 votes

{quoted}

You spelt Tryndamere wrong. And I'm very sure Nasus did saw some spotlight at LCS around last season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgQQZuuMkbk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f71HWwrivfY

Have you even watched these games? The first game Cabochard was beyond useless, they held on in that game by G2 making some poor decision, but they never stood a chance of winning that game, and certainly not by Nasus creating any advantage.

Second game, Betsy ended the game 0/1/2 while also being beyond useless (except for being a waveclear tool), that all other Mages can do.

TL;DR: Both games were losses, neither Cabochard or Betsy ever did anything to create an advantage for their team, and they were picked at the first place because, at the time, item 1056 item 1056 start was viable. Newsflash, item 1056 don't stack anymore, meditation mastery was nerfed, item 2033 was also nerfed, and everything about that build was hammered by nerfs, despite it obviously being complete shit to begin with. So much for the ''LCS spotlight'' Nasus ever got for the last 4 years, it only appropriately showed how bad state he's been.

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

You're missing the point. You said Nasus did not made any spotlight competitively for 4 consecutive seasons, while I proved you wrong by showing that he got picked at least. Conclusion, Tryndamere is the one worse than Nasus since he did not get picked at all since around 2013.

So again. Why is Nasus needing the update when Tryndamere is the one who needed more?

The Cane Master1 votes

You're missing the point. You said Nasus did not made any spotlight competitively for 4 consecutive seasons, while I proved you wrong by showing that he got picked at least. Conclusion, Tryndamere is the one worse than Nasus since he did not get picked at all since around 2013.

Again, the only spotlight he had only showed how bad he is, cementing his place as one of the worst top lanersi n the game.

So again. Why is Nasus needing the update when Tryndamere is the one who needed more?

Who ever said that Tryndamere doesn't need updating?

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