How to deal with Fizz?

RcGjWO640w··1 votes·558 views

I was playing a Ryze game against Fizz and Ryze usually builds health early with RoA, but it didn't seem to really matter at all. Fizz' full combo was able to 100-0 over 1500 points of damage at level 7 with nothing but a item 1056 and item 3108.

I just don't understand a champion who has a spammable invulnerability that can half health squishies and bruisers simply by dropping on top of them.

I know this is a topic that's been covered over and over again, but what the heck is going on? How do you even begin to do something about him? I understand that Fizz is on the table for a major rework when the assassins get an update, but if they don't completely remove his E, then he'll never change. A hypermobile assassin with both targeted and untargeted dashes that deal ridiculous damage just feels completely pointless to try to play against. You're going to die every single time.

What can a Ryze do in lane against a Fizz?

7 Comments

Brutalitops011 votes

E+W+Q combo him whenever he tries to go in, right after he uses his troll pole. E will make W last 2 seconds, then Q will give you a shield and the movement speed buff to get the hell out of dodge. The most toxic and OP thing about Fizz's kit is actually his W: Seastone Trident. It makes his attacks passively deal bonus % missing health magic damage over time. This DOT has no indication of how much damage it's going to deal, so you have literally 0 clue if it's going to kill you or not until either it does, or it expires. Willing to bet that the % missing health damage of Seastone Trident will be removed in the assassin rework as it was the main thing that made Tank Fizz work.

Also, if he uses the troll pole to waveclear, punish him for it. Q+E+Q+W+Q+E+Q combo him. That'll be a lot of damage and make him pretty much melt if you can get around the minions. Barrier would also be a good idea for a summoner spell to run. Clear waves quickly and try to keep him pushed in so he has to use the E to farm, but after you push, keep a distance from him so he can't just jump on you and kill you. Flashing the E when he uses it aggressively is also a really good way to dodge damage, if your flash is up.

RcGjWO640w1 votes

Okay. So if I'm reading this right, your advice is to essentially punish his cooldowns and just shove the wave on him really hard since that's easy for Ryze and Fizz has trouble farming under tower, but also respect Fizz' base damages enough to not give him a ton of room between my tower and I to let him kill me?

What happens when Fizz inevitably gets impatient and the moment you go to shove the wave he all-ins on you in the middle of your minion wave? Fizz usually has more than enough burst to kill me without hardly taking any damage, especially since all of his abilities go through minions and he's ghosted, so he can just blow me up and walk right through the creep wave and essentially ignore it. I still need to practice Ryze a lot more, but it feels so difficult to try to lock him down to run away.

I run Stormraider's on Ryze and it's a godsend for getting some burst down and running away, but almost all of Fizz' abilities apply a slow and the root just doesn't feel like it lasts long enough. Even if he dashes on me and I lock him in place, he always has another engage ability to get on top of you once the one second is over.

Brutalitops011 votes

Ryze is a very combo-based champion. I haven't played the new Ryze much, but I have played the old Ryze and seen videos on his combos - not to mention I'm pretty good at stringing combos together just by knowing was the abilities do. Q resets whenever you cast another ability - this is important. Your combos to practice are:

  1. Q+E+Q+W+Q+E+Q (maximum damage - Q is dealing double damage on all the casts just after E's)
  2. Q+E+W+Q (survive and kite, this is when you expect long fights to happen that you need to kite around or when you need to survive an opponent's burst and escape - 2 second root + the shield and ms buff on Q)
  3. E+E+Q (waveclear or if the enemy team groups up - 2 E's on one target will spread Flux to surrounding enemies, empowering the Q to spread and deal double damage to all of them)
  4. Q+E+Q (quick, short trade burst; this is your lane trade combo before you pick up your W or when you can't/don't want to cast W)

How Ryze Combos work: your Q will reset whenever you cast a spell, and casting 2 spells without casting a Q in the middle will give you a shield and some movement speed the next time you cast Q. In addition, your E doubles the effects of your other basic spells - Q deals double damage and spreads around enemies with the debuff, W lasts twice as long.

Go into a custom or something and just practice these combos over and over and over again until you have the muscle memory. As an old time Ryze player (he was the first champ I bought back in S1), I pretty much have Q E Q W Q E Q stuck in my memory. These other combos are new Ryze combos, but I still know them just from knowing his abilities' interactions with each other. Ryze is a very rewarding champion to learn, but he's difficult, too. Don't be afraid to test your limits so you know what you're doing 100%. His win rate spikes up to like 58% or something like that with over 100 games into him, so practicing and learning him is definitely worth your time if you're looking for someone to main and climb with. Lower average win rate generally means higher win rate with 100+ games, which means a high skill camp, and these champions will always be better for long-term climbing than champions with lower skill caps, but higher average win rates because you'll be able to outplay your opponents so much better as a Ryze main than you will as an Annie main, for example.

Last thing is items, runes, and masteries. I'm not sure what's best for Ryze in terms of runes, but masteries I normally would go Thunderlord's, not Stormraider's, and the best build is pretty similar to what it's always been: Tear => RoA => some AP stuff (Abyssal Scepter, Void Staff, Rabadon's, pretty much just AP/CDR until your Tear is closer to stacked) => Archangel's (probably 4-5 items by this point). Seraph's Embrace active, RoA, and Abyssal is a lot of defense: if you're against someone with a lot of short range magic damage burst (Fizz, Akali, Katarina, etc.), get Abyssal right after you have your RoA and Tear stacking and it should be very difficult for them to kill you. Pretty much, you're building to survive their burst combo and then afterwards kite around them with your snare until they die.

(Aahh, I remember the good old days, where you build Archangel's + RoA and then full tank on Ryze. Why? Because a lot of tank items had mana so your mana scaling made you able to build full tank and still do tons of damage)

RcGjWO640w1 votes

His combos aren't actually that tough for me to get off. I've played the better half of 20 games with him as is and I like him because he's just such a consistent champion with a really high skill ceiling. I can try TD a bit and see how I like it. I just really like stormraider's GTFO in some situations, but then again, I guess if you have enough burst to proc stormraiders from an EWQ or QEWQ, you can probably take them depending on the situation.

I have a lot of practice playing a lot of mechanical champions like Azir and a little bit of Zed, so I really enjoy how smooth he feels.

Brutalitops011 votes

Alright then. Pretty much how you deal with fizz is cc and cooldown based trading. You could open up a fight on him with your W in lane, just as a simple trade, so he can't jump on you right away. Also, Fizz is terrible at farming under turret, so if he hasn't started snowballing yet, you can push him in and outfarm and outscale him that way - just give him respect, after the wave is in his tower, don't stand too close until you need to push the next one in. If he bases before you do, punish him for it by pushing hard and making him lose a lot of farm to the turret, then b after pushing 1-2 waves into his turret. You should be backing with more gold than him and he'll miss a lot of farm, probably only making it there for the casters if he even makes it in time for the second wave at all. QEWQ is going to be your main combo for if he engages on you, WEQ for pressuring him out of cs (after you get the shield and speed buff, move back so he can't jump), and you can use the QEQWQEQ all-in combo if he uses his E on the wave to try to kill him. Fizz is one of the best champions for punishing his opponent's mistakes, but his mistakes can be punished just as hard.

notmarked1 votes

what was that fizz building? E Q should be doing 900 damage with just two completed items.

Penns1 votes

According to https://i.gyazo.com/fab9ca7de075a89266422d434c5a101a.png its pretty hard to win that matchup. And after level 3 it is pretty hard for Ryze because he cant reliably avoid Fizz burst. At level 7 with 70 ap, he has 600 damage + the dot against a 0 mr target tho, so idk about that 100-0. The thing is, Fizz doesnt really have anything other than his dmg so obviously it has to be fairly high.

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