QSS Needs an AP item build path upgrade

Lightningfst·Dec 8, 2014·24 votes·4,540 views

If I am a mage or AP Tank and I build into QSS, why do I have no Tier 3 build options while an AD does? Mercurial Scimitar is great and all, but not really worth getting for an AP based champion.

31 Comments

DrCyanideDec 8, 201429 votes

Generally speaking, item 3139 is the AD equivalent of item 3157 . Both give max offensive stats in their tech tree, give defensive stats against the other tech tree, and have an active that's used to get out of trouble.

If you're looking for MR and AP, I suggest item 3001 .

PrinceArchieDec 9, 20141 votes

Well I wouldnt call Merc Entire equivalent of zhon. In concept yes but in play? It's more expensive and it's active is more or less not as versatile or meaningfully as impact as Zhonyas. I just think Zhonyas active is just a great "pause" for carries that many ie you may wish you had to avoid something seemingly unavoidable to continue wrecking face. The Scimitar is great and I build it when I feel the enemy team has meaningful CC that will more or less be burned on me.

Though when I use Zhonyas on AP carry type champs I do feel more safer and more confident in my engages, since it saves me from more. Would be nice if merc did the same thing. Truth be told though I'd be considering building both on either AP or Ad carries I play once I had 2 or 3 offensive items and once defensive item, just because how great the utility for both are.

AnzellDec 9, 20141 votes

It would be really nice if they made something AP that built from QSS, or even if it just had some combo with CD or mana regen in it instead of AP for balancing reasons. item 3157 is a bad comparison, most of the time when people use it anyway they just get to dodge one CC spell only to be a sitting duck when the glass ends. item 3001 Hasn't been worth buying since the Aura nerf.

JunkοDec 9, 20142 votes

You REALLY underestimate the power of Zhonya. Veigar ult flying towards you? Nope you didn't die. Zed ult about to kill you? Nope

DeathByWaffleDec 9, 201412 votes

Sure, but only when AD get to have a Zhonya too.

LupusNoxDec 9, 20141 votes

IDK who would buy an AD zhonyas other than Zed/Panth/Talon/Fiora

They are the only ones who would really benefit from the active part imo. 2.5 seconds is too long for a team to go without an ADCs DPS, by that point the fight is over

Jesus is SaviorDec 9, 20144 votes

Some ADCs with AP scaling will get a zhonya instead of a GA (Trist/Varus/etc).

60 seconds is too long for a team to go without an ADCs DPS (your death timer after that Rengar pounced on you into all 5 of your teammates after they blew their cc on someone else)

Zhonya can give your team a chance to kill the enemy who pounced you, so you don't die.

AetherKingdomDec 9, 20147 votes

no fuck you you have zhonya

oraDec 9, 20146 votes

There was a great post about this a few months ago. Basically, while a QSS would be nice in theory, it's not actually what an AP caster wants. Each type of character has a different type of play style, and each of these styles has an appropriate defensive item.

AP mage/assassin? Your damage comes in bursts, in between which you're relatively useless. Getting a QSS would let you cleanse a round of cc, but then you'd still have to wait for your spells to come back up after you've used them, and so would still be a sitting duck. item 3157 however removes you for 2 seconds, saving you from a ton of damage and letting you tick down your cooldowns in safety. So, for casters you want your defense in .

AD carry/assassin? Your damage is a little more spread out, and the longer you can whack things in the face without interruption, the better. Therefore, an item that just ignores a wave of cc item 3139 and lets you keep whacking away is optimal for your dps, as well as generally for your defense a la sustain, since you need to do damage to get lifesteal. So, for carries you want your defense in .

Bruiser/tank? You should be soaking some cc anyways, so that your carries don't have to. But, you'll still want to do things in the fight, so being able to mitigate item 3111 anything thrown your way is best, since you'll probably eat more than one wave of cc. Therefore, you'll want tenacity on top of your other resists and damage so you can take as much cc as possible and still fight. So, for tankier champs you want .

Utility support? You should either be in the back keeping your team alive and well, or in the back keeping your opponents locked down with your range. Either way, if an opponent took the time and effort to take you down, that's a ton of damage that they just wasted on the person on your team with the least kill potential. Sit back and laugh while their team is melted down by your remaining frontline and carries! So, for utility supports you want just straight up positioning for defense, they shouldn't really be focusing you anyways.

Additionally, Riot has stated before that they don't like and try to stay away from items that are their own counters a la granting armor and ad or mr and ap. This is why they had so much trouble balancing abyssal scepter in the past, and why there is no ad equivalent. These items, when in the game, pretty much just mean that both people buying it in a lane means neither one gets the bonus from it, and it feels very unsatisfying.

SaiannaDec 9, 20146 votes

Or.. Just add item 3170 to SR. That would help some tanks and mages.

Voilà le laitDec 8, 20143 votes

Because it would be too strong in synergy with zhonia. Currently mercurial scimitar is a good anti spell 6th item for adc and assassins, if you allow it on ap midlaner like fizz, you completly break some matchups, like vs swain/malz/etc, and give them more tool lategame than they need !

WheatloafDec 8, 20143 votes

It's generally a very situational buy, even on AD champions, and AP champions are usually much safer. Of course, it's been a little more popular with Warwick currently running rampant, especially considering you can't always trust your teammates to cancel his channel in soloqueue...

AelthernDec 8, 20143 votes

Maybe not AP since we have item 3157 but something different. Its a shame item 3140 builds only into item 3139 .

TrumpetDec 9, 20142 votes

something tanky like hp and the active would be awesome.

SaiannaDec 9, 20141 votes

item 3222

DownrunDec 9, 20143 votes

item 3070 Zed

CindikleDec 9, 20142 votes

Remove it's ability to counter suppression. Delete cleanse.

New item: Mercurial Choker +450 HP +45 MR

Unique Active: Removes all disables and summoner spell debuffs affecting your champion(excluding Suppression) and lowers the duration of incoming disables by 65% for 3 seconds. 120s CD. CD is reduced by 10 seconds for every disable an enemy champion attacks you with for it's duration. Unique Passive: Increases movement speed by 10% for 3 seconds after a disabling effect ends or is removed.

Builds out of QSS + Giants belt + 750g. 3000g total. A little pricy compared to the rest, but I think it would be fine for the power it gives.

Bam, MR itemization is improved. 3 months later people realize Cleanse got deleted.

Far as suppression goes without this counter. Two of those champions need a rework of sorts and Malz can have a hard enough time as an immobile caster as it is. Also the 2nd part of the active could reduce suppression duration. Allowing an option to counter it ahead of time, but with a risk. Basically. Solve it with something else. Maybe a boot enchant that reduces damage taken while CC's.

LupusNoxDec 9, 20141 votes

Cleanse got deleted??????

WHEN?

Drunk RummateDec 9, 20142 votes

uhhh

i have an idea, lets make an 80 damage weapon with 50 armor and give it an invincibility active for AD champions

Pollyanna WrightDec 9, 20142 votes

I'll take my AD Zhonyas, thank you very much have a nice day.

5 Stacks GGDec 9, 20142 votes

Give us an ad hourglass then you filthy ap player

ArveanorDec 9, 20141 votes

False.

7thHeavenDec 9, 20141 votes

item 3070 summoner 1

It Is I EmotoDec 9, 20141 votes

cleanse doesn't remove debuffs :/

junglerboy16Dec 9, 20142 votes

QSS removes suppression, cleanse does not.

SukishooDec 9, 20141 votes

item 3222 is pretty much the equivalent of item 3139 as they both give MR and the debuff removal.

It Is I EmotoDec 9, 20141 votes

Sadly it doesn't remove any kind off cc and debuffs. like QSS can remove fizz ult, wich is a great counter item against him.

RikariDec 9, 20141 votes

Mid laners would be a bit too hard to kill with that,unless they make it so that you have to choose between item 3157 and the QSS Item.

junglerboy16Dec 9, 20141 votes

It is just plain cheap enough that until you need your last item slot, you can leave QSS as QSS and be fine throughout the match. As several people have explained below, a cleanse also isn't that ideal for a mage, since they are still in harms way and (usually) have all their spells on cd. Basically, QSS is extremely situational (only really good against suppression champs since you can Zhonya's most other abilities pretty effectively if you react quickly to them, but Suppressions are all point and click). For ADCs, it is only an item that is even considered iff the opposing team has a TON of CC and your support's mikaels is not enough to save you. Mages usually have longer range, built in escapes, or enough CC to save themselves with only the short invulnerability of Zhonya's.

It Is I EmotoDec 9, 20141 votes

Though, can't we rework Mikaels, so it builds with QSS?