Really simple ways to improve this game

AstroFerrari ··13 votes·7,046 views

Remove item 3161

Create a clear distinction between bruiser, tank, and juggernaut itemization.

Diversify Mage itemization. All just rush magic pen and grievous wounds.

Reduce the overall gold income available.

Reduce damage across the board by 10%.

Take True damage out of Conqueror and make it more like Fervor and/or just bring fervor back.

Create vivid defensive options in the runes.

Remove MMR and match up people in ranked 1 or 2 ranks below or above their bracket depending on past game performance (let's say the last 5 games).

Reform champion design/champion rework philosophy to clearly emphasize strengths and weaknesses, and don't make them to synergize crazily with certain runes and items.

27 Comments

DuskDaUmbreon5 votes

And how do you do this? Or are you just listing complex issues and stating it like it has a simple solution?

AstroFerrari 2 votes

Address each issues one at time through trial and error. I'd give myself no more than 2 years to fix all of these things.

DuskDaUmbreon3 votes

Sure. The thing Riot's been trying to do for 5+ years will easily be done by some guy in 2.

AstroFerrari 4 votes

Damn are you 100% sure about that? So what's the excuse for letting certain runes, items, champions, and problematic mechanics run rough shot for months on end? What's the reasoning for leaving Vayne and Riven untouched for so long? I'm not being passive aggressive I just want to know what I'm not seeing here.

Moonscourge4 votes

{quoted}

Remove item 3161

Why? It's not even that strong. I wish more people rushed it, because it's so god awful that they essentially wasted their gold until they get more items.

Create a clear distinction between bruiser, tank, and juggernaut itemization.

Already exists though. Bruiser items have offensive stats on them. Tank items are more heavy on Resists than pure HP and Juggernauts are nothing else than a mix of the two.

Diversify Mage itemization. All just rush magic pen and grievous wounds.

Rework ADC items all just buy life steal and crit.

Reduce the overall gold income available.

Wouldn't fix anything but artificially draw out games. Nobody wants to lane until 20 minutes.

Reduce damage across the board by 10%.

Wouldn't fix anything, besides potentially just making tanks or bruisers OP thanks to how damage vs defenses scale.

Take True damage out of Conqueror and make it more like Fervor and/or just bring fervor back.

No.

Create vivid defensive options in the runes.

They already exist. Runes as a whole are more gameplay focused than simply stacking your defenses up though.

Remove MMR and match up people in ranked 1 or 2 ranks below or above their bracket depending on past game performance (let's say the last 5 games).

Absolute bs idea. MMR is the bread and butter of the entire system, you cannot remove it and simply use arbitrary ranking like that. Would become entirely meaningless. If you're too ignorant to understand that divisons and MMR aren't the same thing and that you shouldn't complain about playing from a range of 2 to 3 divisions up and down you need to just shut up about this because you clearly haven't understood a single thing. Would also encourage people to play for KDA, which is a dogshit idea.

Reform champion design/champion rework philosophy to clearly emphasize strengths and weaknesses, and don't make them to synergize crazily with certain runes and items.

Or you just change broken interactions but keep champions the way they are. This is why League isn't dead yet. There's always something new, even if you don't want to admit it. That's why balance changes are made. Many champs have clear cut weaknesses and those that don't really have any obvious ones are generally kept weaker because of it.

AstroFerrari 3 votes

Before I address what you said, I'm going to go off a limb and assume you're overall happy with the way the game currently is right?

Moonscourge3 votes

{quoted}

Before I address what you said, I'm going to go off a limb and assume you're overall happy with the way the game currently is right?

Nope. Morgana could use a nerf to her W damage, but she gets a nerf on her E and I'll take it. Ezreal still out of line. Zed, Riven, Vayne and Vlad could use nerfs. Other than that I can hardly complain. None of the things you proposed would fix any of that though.

AstroFerrari 3 votes

Outside of some blatantly OP champions and some that you specifically want nerfed, it really sounds to me like you're fine with the game. That's cool, but many high elo streamers and a lot of the community are very vocal about what they don't like about this game and this game isn't just for you to play.

Why? It's not even that strong. I wish more people rushed it, because it's so god awful that they essentially wasted their gold until they get more items.

This is just your opinion. The ultimate passive has been problematic on many bruisers since it was still on essence reaver. But you specifically have no problem with it so it's ok. I got you.

Already exists though. Bruiser items have offensive stats on them. Tank items are more heavy on Resists than pure HP and Juggernauts are nothing else than a mix of the two.

A lot of the juggernaut items are simply more effective on bruisers. Lots of people have been on record talking about this.

Diversify Mage itemization. All just rush magic pen and grievous wounds.

Rework ADC items all just buy life steal and crit.

Reduce the overall gold income available.

Wouldn't fix anything but artificially draw out games. Nobody wants to lane until 20 minutes.

Reduce damage across the board by 10%.

Wouldn't fix anything, besides potentially just making tanks or bruisers OP thanks to how damage vs defenses scale.

I see you can put words in my mouth, excellent job. At least tanks would be more prevalent in the game and have a real place in the top lane again. Perhaps games would last a little longer too.

They already exist. Runes as a whole are more gameplay focused than simply stacking your defenses up though.

So here is where your bias is showing itself. The runes are focused on doing damage. Stacking defenses up should be a viable strategy as well. Do you have any reason why it shouldn't be one? There's more than enough true damage to go around so why not?

Absolute bs idea. MMR is the bread and butter of the entire system, you cannot remove it and simply use arbitrary ranking like that. Would become entirely meaningless. If you're too ignorant to understand that divisons and MMR aren't the same thing and that you shouldn't complain about playing from a range of 2 to 3 divisions up and down you need to just shut up about this because you clearly haven't understood a single thing. Would also encourage people to play for KDA, which is a dogshit idea.

I played a ranked game last night. Nothing too special about it, won my lane and my game. But I checked my op.gg to get a full view of my opponents and how I performed against them. I had a Gold 3 jungler and the rest of us were mid Silver players. They had a Bronze 1 Ez playing ADC who was also first timing, but his MMR said that he was good enough to face and possibly beat mid silver players and a Gold 3 jungler. I wouldn't be surprised if our jungler sometimes went up against Plat players. This wasn't their game to win, and for no reason other than the matchmaking dealing them a shitty hand based on MMR. This isn't specific to me, people have had issues with the matchmaking that's even worse than the example I just gave. If you're completely ok with this, that says a lot about you and I don't think we need to proceed with this discussion further. Whatever changes that would take place would simply put people against someone with a rank similar to theirs or performance based on things like CS or average champion grade after games. And also, chill with the ad hominem attacks. It makes you look bitter and unintelligent. You're better than that.

Or you just change broken interactions but keep champions the way they are. This is why League isn't dead yet. There's always something new, even if you don't want to admit it. That's why balance changes are made. Many champs have clear cut weaknesses and those that don't really have any obvious ones are generally kept weaker because of it.

No, there are some champions released that are blatantly overloaded and they're nerfed into obscurity due to that. It's also no secret that Leagues player base has begun to decline due to their balance decisions. Vayne is supposed to be weak in lane, but they buffed her Q cooldown to give her better lane presence, and later buffed her ult on top of it. The reworked Irelia was nerfed less than 24 hours after her live release. Aatrox was also nerfed into obscurity post-rework cause he was too strong and they're just now touching him again. These champions are clearly designed with strengths at the forefront and whoever is calling the shots with the balancing clearly has bias, which is why Riven and Vayne are still broken after all of these patches.

Xayahrí1 votes

Diversify Mage itemization. All just rush magic pen and grievous wounds.

morello is a waste of 3k gold lmao unless youre glacial ahri and you have nothing else to build late game its literally a support item right now with all the mage supps cuz their cheese is based on pen and the RIDICULOUSLY overpriced healing is pretty supportive for mages. void staff isnt a rush item either cuz it literally only gives magic pen and ap.

As far as diversifying goes, I think at most there just needs to be a few more defensive AP items. The current state of mages is fine and even if more items are changed/added it's hard to change a mage's playstyle to fit something outside of the AP items that already exist.

AstroFerrari 1 votes

I agree with this, they definitely don't have to be offensive items. Whatever works best for the game, I would ardently support.

y0r1ck2 votes

There's this saying, "Only a fool finds a simple solution for a complex problem." As much as I dislike it, it's surprising how often it's true on these boards.

How should RIOT implement them? What should RIOT do if they don't work or if they overshoot the issue? What should RIOT do if the game length increases by 2 minutes? Etc.

I hate using "etc." because it's lazy, but I can't list every factor you neglected - I'd be here all night.

I'll be honest with you because you just seem like you love the game and want to see it do great. Stop pretending to be on the balance team, you're clearly not qualified enough to make valuable suggestions and you don't have enough clout to change anything without having fantastic ideas.

I might just make this a copypasta...

AstroFerrari 2 votes

Riot should implement this with a 2-3 year plan and approach each issue over a span of months through trial and error, and very clear communication with the player base.

If they overshoot on any issues they can simply scale those back, go to another problem and come back to it.

If I ran this this MOBA I would be aiming for 30-35 minute games at minimum. I can't stop smurfing or heavy snowballs so there will always be exceptions to that but for quality games in that time bracket would be a great start. This can be done by reducing the current snowball by lowering tower plate gold and first tower gold, or perhaps reducing the gold given by scuttle. Create more warding options and give it a higher value in regards to player performance. If I could bring back farm junglers who emphasize securing map objectives and building up strength without it being problematic I'd go that route too. Not meaning to bring back Sated Devourer but clearly something more healthy.

Maybe introduce a "green buff" that allows you to place and/or hold more wards as a jungler or encouraging counter jungling in some way.

I'd create more vivid options for defenses in the runes besides Aftershock which is getting nerfed. The runes feel too geared towards offense and problematic gimmicks.

In terms of the matchmaking I'll copy something from an earlier comment:

I played a ranked game last night. Nothing too special about it, won my lane and my game. But I checked my op.gg to get a full view of my opponents and how I performed against them. I had a Gold 3 jungler and the rest of us were mid Silver players. They had a Bronze 1 Ez playing ADC who was also first timing, but his MMR said that he was good enough to face and possibly beat mid silver players and a Gold 3 jungler. I wouldn't be surprised if our jungler sometimes went up against Plat players. This wasn't their game to win, and for no reason other than the matchmaking dealing them a shitty hand based on MMR. This isn't specific to me, people have had issues with the matchmaking that's even worse than the example I just gave. If you're completely ok with this, that says a lot about you and I don't think we need to proceed with this discussion further. Whatever changes that would take place would simply put people against someone with a rank similar to theirs or performance based on things like CS or average champion grade after games.

You're right, maybe I'm not entirely qualified to balance to this game, but I sure as hell wouldn't think of releasing Sylas, Zoe, release-Camille or release-Kai'sa.

But I'm here to have a civil discussion. What is it that people who play this game everyday and make a living off of it don't see that Riot does?

iChimp2 votes

I think if you committed the time that you commit to your job then you would get it done, I think most would with the amount of resources Riot has on their OWN and ONLY game.

Xayahrí1 votes

If I ran this this MOBA I would be aiming for 30-35 minute games at minimum.

Well if that was the case, champions like J4 and Lucian who are more early-mid will rarely be played, and you'll see teams with Vlad, Kindred, Ryze, Vayne, Sona. Right now the game already lasts long enough, and although your idea on decreasing gold gain will balance out with this, it also just negates the change and there's no point. It's like the difference between a League and a mobile MOBA (generally the gold gain is like twice that of League). Early-Mid comps exist for a reason, while late game comps aren't in a terrible spot right now either. What I would then envision from your suggestion is something like the cancerous tank meta that was a few seasons ago where nothing would happen for the first 25 minutes and then one teamfight decides the game.

Maybe introduce a "green buff" that allows you to place and/or hold more wards as a jungler or encouraging counter jungling in some way.

Personally I liked Tracker's Knife so I somewhat support this. I also quite liked the time back when there were smite bonuses for each camp so maybe it could work around that? However there is a reason why Rito decided to lower the amount of wards on the map. If you have a buff that does extra wards then that defeats the purpose of you saying "I would be aiming for 30-35 minute games" because vision control is great for snowballing.

I'd create more vivid options for defenses in the runes besides Aftershock which is getting nerfed. The runes feel too geared towards offense and problematic gimmicks.

Don't forget Guardian :P. This does need to be looked into though, especially because there are some offensive runes that aren't being used much anyway. Plus, there needs to be fourth keystones for the rest of the trees so maybe look into that.

As for MMR, it's pretty broken BUT it's also the best I've seen out of a competitive game. Some plats can't even win against silvers from what I've seen. I think the only way that can fix the issue is simplifying LP and forcing a stricter range in which players are matchmade, as strict as the Diamond+ duoQ requirements. I can tell you, though, as a WoT player from back in the day when scout matchmaking was a thing, the most painful experience was driving my AMX 40 (a very bad tier 4 tank, think of it as your typical bronzie) into the shell of a T29 (one of the best tier 7 tanks imo, think of it as high plat) that instantly oneshots me.

Still though, this entire issue about MMR can easily be bypassed by bringing back ranked teams. Actually, I don't understand why Rito removed ranked teams in the first place, FlexQ is a terrible replacement for it, and League is supposedly a TEAM game anyways. Clash was a nice step in that direction but obviously it didn't work out.

y0r1ck2 votes

{quoted}

Riot should implement this with a 2-3 year plan and approach each issue over a span of months through trial and error, and very clear communication with the player base.

If they overshoot on any issues they can simply scale those back, go to another problem and come back to it.

If I ran this this MOBA I would be aiming for 30-35 minute games at minimum. I can't stop smurfing or heavy snowballs so there will always be exceptions to that but for quality games in that time bracket would be a great start. This can be done by reducing the current snowball by lowering tower plate gold and first tower gold, or perhaps reducing the gold given by scuttle. Create more warding options and give it a higher value in regards to player performance. If I could bring back farm junglers who emphasize securing map objectives and building up strength without it being problematic I'd go that route too. Not meaning to bring back Sated Devourer but clearly something more healthy.

Maybe introduce a "green buff" that allows you to place and/or hold more wards as a jungler or encouraging counter jungling in some way.

I'd create more vivid options for defenses in the runes besides Aftershock which is getting nerfed. The runes feel too geared towards offense and problematic gimmicks.

In terms of the matchmaking I'll copy something from an earlier comment:

I played a ranked game last night. Nothing too special about it, won my lane and my game. But I checked my op.gg to get a full view of my opponents and how I performed against them. I had a Gold 3 jungler and the rest of us were mid Silver players. They had a Bronze 1 Ez playing ADC who was also first timing, but his MMR said that he was good enough to face and possibly beat mid silver players and a Gold 3 jungler. I wouldn't be surprised if our jungler sometimes went up against Plat players. This wasn't their game to win, and for no reason other than the matchmaking dealing them a shitty hand based on MMR. This isn't specific to me, people have had issues with the matchmaking that's even worse than the example I just gave. If you're completely ok with this, that says a lot about you and I don't think we need to proceed with this discussion further. Whatever changes that would take place would simply put people against someone with a rank similar to theirs or performance based on things like CS or average champion grade after games.

You're right, maybe I'm not entirely qualified to balance to this game, but I sure as hell wouldn't think of releasing Sylas, Zoe, release-Camille or release-Kai'sa.

But I'm here to have a civil discussion. What is it that people who play this game everyday and make a living off of it don't see that Riot does?

You're right, we have no need to discuss further. You've solved league congratulations.

AstroFerrari 1 votes

You asked for thought out solutions. If you really wanted me to think each and every solution out completely, I wouldn't post in on the boards. It'd be a literal 11 page research project which I know you wouldn't care to read. But assuming Riot always knows best despite the state of their game is ludicrous. They aren't above making mistakes and the records show they let their mistakes linger. Points for the nonchalant attitude tho :)

y0r1ck2 votes

{quoted}

You asked for thought out solutions. If you really wanted me to think each and every solution out completely, I wouldn't post in on the boards. It'd be a literal 11 page research project which I know you wouldn't care to read. But assuming Riot always knows best despite the state of their game is ludicrous. They aren't above making mistakes and the records show they let their mistakes linger. Points for the nonchalant attitude tho :)

Tldr: be specific and include details that we can discuss, then we'll discuss

I'll judge your ideas on their merit right? But there's not enough development behind the ideas for me to really consider them. If you write that 11 page paper I'll give you the credit you deserve. If you write a post with 5 regurgitated half-assed ideas, I'll give you the credit you deserve. What did you expect?

You like these ideas I get it. I appreciate your passion, I really do. That's why I think you should just pick one idea and figure it out as best you can. Then you post your best version of that idea, then we'll go back and forth on it and cut/add until it's a great idea. Then someone else will come in and we'll all go back and forth and cut/add until it's better, and so on. But that's only going to happen if you give us some real substance to start with.

I'm fully willing to give you a productive discussion as long as you provide a topic with meat. Something as general and broad as what you have in your topic isn't something anybody on these boards can reasonably discuss. I hope you understand that there's no hard feelings here.

Edit - I understand most people won't read a long, well thought out solution. But you're not writing for most people right? I hope you're writing for the people who care enough to actually read and respond to well thought out posts with well thought out posts of their own. It's entirely possible that your post will be ignored because it's long and wordy, but at least you'll be adding something new and valuable. This isn't a popularity contest, in the end it's the best ideas that win and if you commit to this then I want to help you make the best ideas you can. But only if you commit.

iChimp2 votes

Stop pretending to be on the anti-balance balance team. You clearly aren't qualified to tell people that they can't make suggestions pointing to where the games major problems are. This is more effective than pointing to a specific problem because most of the community can't agree on what the problems ARE.

Glad I won't have to make this a copypasta

y0r1ck1 votes

{quoted}

Stop pretending to be on the anti-balance balance team. You clearly aren't qualified to tell people that they can't make suggestions pointing to where the games major problems are. This is more effective than pointing to a specific problem because most of the community can't agree on what the problems ARE.

Glad I won't have to make this a copypasta

Nope, copy pasting the same 5 brutish suggestions we see on boards is not more effective than pointing to a specific problem.

If this guy had posted one of his suggestions and developed it enough to be viable, I'd have said different things. The reality is he just threw together a bunch of stuff he sees on boards without thinking about how it'll affect the game past immediate effects. No matter what field, if somebody does that I can say they're not qualified.

Edit - I misread so removed a paragraph that ended up not being relevant

iChimp1 votes

Yeah dude you're in this guy's head btw this discussion could be used to talk about the above points but instead you want to act like this. Easily could've started discussing which of the above points interests you. Instead, you come on here try to silence a conversation while providing nothing to it. Seems your argument is about as vapid as you say his is.

MonarcaVis1 votes

you're clearly not qualified enough to make valuable suggestions

Unless you know him personaly, how can you say that? Maybe he is qualified. There are ppl with high formation lurking in this type of forums, not only children.

y0r1ck1 votes

{quoted}

Unless you know him personaly, how can you say that? Maybe he is qualified. There are ppl with high formation lurking in this type of forums, not only children.

"Reduce damage by 10%"

"Reduce gold income overall"

That's how I can say he's clearly not qualified. Nobody qualified to handle these things comes up with simple solutions for complex problems. There are many factors he's ignored, hell if a RIOTer posted this I'd say the same thing.

FrozenFitzgerald2 votes

Quick fix: Un-fuck the god awful matchmaking!

DontLewdOrianna2 votes

remove: Zoe item 3124 item 3161

Ephixus2 votes

Sounds good on paper but won't work for (them).

Düff McWhalen1 votes

{quoted}

Remove item 3161

Create a clear distinction between bruiser, tank, and juggernaut itemization.

Diversify Mage itemization. All just rush magic pen and grievous wounds.

Reduce the overall gold income available.

Reduce damage across the board by 10%.

Take True damage out of Conqueror and make it more like Fervor and/or just bring fervor back.

Create vivid defensive options in the runes.

Remove MMR and match up people in ranked 1 or 2 ranks below or above their bracket depending on past game performance (let's say the last 5 games).

Reform champion design/champion rework philosophy to clearly emphasize strengths and weaknesses, and don't make them to synergize crazily with certain runes and items.

Love these. The only thing I would do in regards to MMR so it's even more simple, is make your Rank and division based on your MMR, full stop. No placements or LP really. Your MMR should reflect your division and rank full stop. From there, MMR matching becomes a non issue as the Silvers are with Silvers, Golds with Golds and so on.

Warpes1 votes

But why would Riot do any of those things, when they want to cater to children who beg their mommies for skins.

Seriously Riot is appealing to children, and the jackass players who spam everything that's 'edgy' dmgs and assassins, and everything cheesemode that could ever exist. That's what the sole focus has been for riot for the past 3 1/2 seasons, and why the game quality has been on a massive decline.

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