So we are still stuck in this situation where mid and jungle are the only roles that matter. -.-
Red side perma 4 man ganks bot Blue side perma 3 man ganks top
It’s getting old fast. Well it already is old.
It’s super annoying knowing that I have zero say in these roles whether or not I win my lane.
Do I have a fix in mind, not really.
Moody P3 voteseasy fix nerf mages and nerf jungle (for real this time)
The thigh guy2 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:08:13.270+0000)
easy fix nerf mages and nerf jungle (for real this time)
Jungle just needs red buff nerfed, And it’s not just mages. It EVERY mid laner. Assassins, mages, “tanks” all of them just roam constantly with the jungler based on which side they got.
Moody P3 votesjungle needs red smite nerfed (ideally deleted or reworked) because that item isn't fair in the least
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:11:51.431+0000)
jungle needs red smite nerfed (ideally deleted or reworked) because that item isn't fair in the least
I mean. It’s worse than ignite and exhaust, and takes up a summoner slot just like them.
Rock MD1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:13:58.301+0000)
I mean. It’s worse than ignite and exhaust, and takes up a summoner slot just like them.
Who cares if it's weaker than either at a 1:1 level when it takes pieces from both summs, it's on a 90s CD, and doubles as an objective secure tool.
That's a really shit way to spin how strong smite is and you know it.
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Rock MD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:37:48.348+0000)
Who cares if it's weaker than either at a 1:1 level when it takes pieces from both summs, it's on a 90s CD, and doubles as an objective secure tool.
That's a really shit way to spin how strong smite is and you know it.
That’s why I said it’s a strictly worse version of them. Until late game it’s almost 3/4 the damage of ignite, requires an auto attack and doesn’t apply grevious wounds. As for exhaust it’s litteraly half the damage reduction and doesn’t slow.
Also smite is kinda required and this allowed junglers to have even a semblance of a chance to fight laners when needed.
And lowish cooldown is also reflected on the old importance of things not named rift herald.
Death by Glamour1 votesinsert they said his message was wrong meme
Dr Dog2 votesif that were true the number one player in kr rn is sktt1s support, the top player in eune is a support, the top player in euw is a mid laner and the finally the top player in na is a jg main with the second place going to tf blade, a top laner, actually if you look at the top players from every region your gonna see a lot of top and support because they're both good roles for solo queue rn, just because you personally cant find success with those lanes doesnt mean the lanes are bad in fact top lane and support have been two very good roles all of season 8 for solo queue, winning lane doesnt matter when you dont push your lead by roaming mid if your top or support and by taking the enemy jgers jg camps and buff if your ahead top lane to deny the enemy jg a LOT of exp and gold setting your own jg up to pull ahead along with herald being top lane and dragon being bot, its not mid and jgs fault you dont push a lead when you get it and its not the lanes fault either
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:13:58.320+0000)
if that were true the number one player in kr rn is sktt1s support, the top player in eune is a support, the top player in euw is a mid laner and the finally the top player in na is a jg main with the second place going to tf blade, a top laner, actually if you look at the top players from every region your gonna see a lot of top and support because they're both good roles for solo queue rn, just because you personally cant find success with those lanes doesnt mean the lanes are bad in fact top lane and support have been two very good roles all of season 8 for solo queue, winning lane doesnt matter when you dont push your lead by roaming mid if your top or support and by taking the enemy jgers jg camps and buff if your ahead top lane to deny the enemy jg a LOT of exp and gold setting your own jg up to pull ahead along with herald being top lane and dragon being bot, its not mid and jgs fault you dont push a lead when you get it and its not the lanes fault either
Top tier play and average play are extremely different things.
I could sit and say the number one high school Basketball player in the country is amazing, it doesn’t make any sense to apply the standards of professional play to him.
The exception is not the average.
Just like how there’s one dude who always makes it to challenger playing jungle teemo. Does that mean teemo is god tier? Hell no.
Dr Dog2 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:17:04.094+0000)
Top tier play and average play are extremely different things.
I could sit and say the number one high school Basketball player in the country is amazing, it doesn’t make any sense to apply the standards of professional play to him.
The exception is not the average.
Just like how there’s one dude who always makes it to challenger playing jungle teemo. Does that mean teemo is god tier? Hell no.
top tier play in the solo queue environment is a very good indication of solo queue as a whole, a lot of top tier players are top laners and its definitely a role with agency as is bot lane, most people will agree that support has most of the bot lane agency rn and that carrys over to a mid lane lead depending on which support is roaming like they're supposed to
the roles you say "have no agency" do have plenty of it when played correctly which was what im trying to say, the only role id say is team dependent rn is adc and even then adc has some agency over bot lane
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:24:17.088+0000)
top tier play in the solo queue environment is a very good indication of solo queue as a whole, a lot of top tier players are top laners and its definitely a role with agency as is bot lane, most people will agree that support has all the bot lane agency rn and that carrys over to a mid lane lead depending on which support is roaming like they're supposed to
the roles you say "have no agency" do have plenty of it when played correctly which was what im trying to say, the only role id say is team dependent rn is adc and even then adc has some agency over bot lane
Way to ignore every point while also beinging zero argument and just blindly stating things.
Dr Dog1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:40:02.536+0000)
Way to ignore every point while also beinging zero argument and just blindly stating things.
my argument is pretty clear, your not playing the roles effectively and not pushing leads which is why YOU have no agency in those roles, they arent the issue your gameplay is and the sooner you blame yourself rather than make up excuses the sooner you'll find success in said roles
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:45:07.120+0000)
my argument is pretty clear, your not playing the roles effectively and not pushing leads which is why YOU have no agency in those roles, they arent the issue your gameplay is and the sooner you blame yourself rather than make up excuses the sooner you'll find success in said roles
There is no lead. You’re perma ganked or being perma ganked. You have no agency because you constantly have outside factors roaming in for better for worse.
Did I say you auto lose? No. I didn’t. If you got red side and your bot, congrats. You won lane. Not by your own doing but by your mid and jungler perma ganking uou.
But you know. Being able to 4v2 is just adequate skill for climbing I guess.
Dr Dog1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:47:47.982+0000)
There is no lead. You’re perma ganked or being perma ganked. You have no agency because you constantly have outside factors roaming in for better for worse.
Did I say you auto lose? No. I didn’t. If you got red side and your bot, congrats. You won lane. Not by your own doing but by your mid and jungler perma ganking uou.
But you know. Being able to 4v2 is just adequate skill for climbing I guess.
and not once have you ever stopped and thought "hm maybe i shouldnt push up rn' or "hm i should by more wards so i dont get ganked as often", if your getting perma ganked its because your doing something to allow it, you think top and jungle never go catch you in your jg? mid lane doesnt go in there after they've shoved to catch you out? mid lane doesnt get 3 manned by the support jg and top laner? jg and mid arent some special golden roles they have the same issues as others especially with ganks, they are universal. the fault is on you not the role your playing
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:53:56.283+0000)
and not once have you ever stopped and thought "hm maybe i shouldnt push up rn' or "hm i should by more wards so i dont get ganked as often", if your getting perma ganked its because your doing something to allow it, you think top and jungle never go catch you in your jg? mid lane doesnt go in there after they've shoved to catch you out? mid lane doesnt get 3 manned by the support jg and top laner? jg and mid arent some special golden roles they have the same issues as others especially with ganks, they are universal. the fault is on you not the role your playing
Again. Ignoring that fact that pushing is irrelevant because they 4 man dive you. But you know. Don’t actually read comments.
Dr Dog1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T12:04:21.576+0000)
Again. Ignoring that fact that pushing is irrelevant because they 4 man dive you. But you know. Don’t actually read comments.
4 man dives dont happen if you see them coming, not the roles fault you either A) dont ward or B) have no map awareness
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T19:28:20.731+0000)
4 man dives dont happen if you see them coming, not the roles fault you either A) dont ward or B) have no map awareness
Okay fine. Let’s say you see the dive incoming. So you retreat to your t2 to not die. They just free took your turret.
You had no say in it because if you stayed they 4 man dove you.
Sure. You didn’t die. But you’re still down almost 1k gold immedietly.
Dr Dog1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T19:47:05.326+0000)
Okay fine. Let’s say you see the dive incoming. So you retreat to your t2 to not die. They just free took your turret.
You had no say in it because if you stayed they 4 man dove you.
Sure. You didn’t die. But you’re still down almost 1k gold immedietly.
or you can ping your mid laner and jg down to help, if they dont they either cant help or wont making it their fault anyway, its a team game if they send people bot to get kills or a tower thats teamwork, they're sending people somewhere and risking getting other things of theirs taken, hell instead of going to tier two you could simply rotate mid and help your team get that turret and either force them to retreat and deal with it or trade towers
The thigh guy1 votes[{quoted}](name=Dr Dog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T21:45:27.474+0000)
or you can ping your mid laner and jg down to help, if they dont they either cant help or wont making it their fault anyway, its a team game if they send people bot to get kills or a tower thats teamwork, they're sending people somewhere and risking getting other things of theirs taken, hell instead of going to tier two you could simply rotate mid and help your team get that turret and either force them to retreat and deal with it or trade towers
Further ignoring points previously made. The mid laner is top lane with the top and jungler taking that turret.
So yeah. You traded turrets. But you’re now fucked in your lane.
ZaneShadow1 votesPlay pantheon. Take over lane, then roam and go murder the enemy mid.
The thigh guy1 votesPlay pantheon. Take over lane, then roam and go murder the enemy mid.
Good luck if you’re on red side. Cause you’re gonna have to 1v2 at 2:30. XD
ZaneShadow1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:08:19.719+0000)
Good luck if you’re on red side. Cause you’re gonna have to 1v2 at 2:30. XD
All i can say is ward. If the enemy jungler insists on sitting in the bush, he is going to lose the entire game.
The thigh guy1 votesAll i can say is ward. If the enemy jungler insists on sitting in the bush, he is going to lose the entire game.
Let’s use bot as an example. Turrets are boarderline irrelevant with 4 people diving. You 99/100 lose a 2v4 every time. They don’t have to sit in a bush. They just dive you, kill both of you in the span of 3 turret shots and repeat.
Free Roll1 votes[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fF36doxe,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-23T01:03:51.464+0000)
So we are still stuck in this situation where mid and jungle are the only roles that matter. -.-
Red side perma 4 man ganks bot Blue side perma 3 man ganks top
It’s getting old fast. Well it already is old.
It’s super annoying knowing that I have zero say in these roles whether or not I win my lane.
Do I have a fix in mind, not really.
Fix is really quite simple vision spam is broken always has been always will be. Might as well remove fog of war the map is so lit up at this point. I know some one will come lecture me about "vision" but its the real problem. The 2 sides of the map are just to easy to provide easy vision to see ganks conning and in general you just always know where people are putting zero risk in playing "passive". Let me explain my last comment further, what I mean is when my laners is out of sight briefly I can just pull back sit under my turret with no real penalty anymore, because it is not long before i see where they are. There needs to be a penalty for those who play passively until then everytime i see the enemy i can safely and almost certainly know when i can push up or fall back for a tiny window which result in little loss of xp or income.
TL DR need a real fog of war to place risk back into ganking and laning along with some semblance of an actual penalty for leaving lane either to gank or to hide from a gank, its just to easy to for many champs to blow up a wave and then roam or sit at turret. Add in "wave clear" which was a horrid addition, mobility creep/damage creep and it just makes it all worse.