Jungle is becoming the glorified support

The Deckowner·Jun 26, 2016·69 votes·5,388 views

Mid takes blue, raptor and wolves. Adc takes red, krug/gromp. Fails ganking, "noob jungle report" Gets a kill, "gtfo stop taking my cs afk ffs"

146 Comments

Grigorian TutorJun 27, 201630 votes

"Is becoming"? Seriously how is any part of this considered new?

So remembers season 2/3 when the jungler actually was a support, and built items like sightstone and iron solaris, small camps took almost twice as long to respawn, and there was no rubberbanning to keep you from falling off hard. The jungle reworks have done nothing but move jungler away from support tank, and thats why champs like kindred, graves, elise and nid are dominating. Yet even in that early S3 state jungler was still the highest impact roll you could play. Plz pull your heads out of the clouds.

You are the only player on the map whole is accountable to every lane so oc you are going to have people gripe when things go bad. Do you really expect them to take credit for there own failures? This is the fucking internet learn to ignore people. On the other hand you are the only player in a position to look at what is going on in the early game and fix/snowball it. And if you are playing tank jungle you basically are the defacto play caller. Make good choices, you will win games.

If you rely on a buff make it clear in the lobby, and if they dont respect it use smite, or steal the other junglers buffs. Honestly if you cant secure your buffs from your own team, counter jungle to put more buffs on your side or just deal without it you pretty much suck at jungle.

Lucky MonikerJun 27, 20165 votes

This guy has got it right, even when I play Shaco or Elise I still go in with a 'support' mindset where it is all about getting your team fed. I will give the lane the kill any time I can, but pinks as often as they get cleared, etc.

jungle IS a support, they support the entire map instead of just an adc during the landing phase.

EedatJun 26, 20169 votes

Yeah I agree. They've nerfed Jungle gold and xp over the past few seasons while making the jungle more difficult to clear on top of reducing jungle camp spawn times. Making it harder and harder to be relative as a jungler without getting kills and snowballing. if a Jungler falls behind early they're pretty screwed for the rest of the game

MarshbouyJun 26, 20168 votes

RIOT is trying to help. that was the reason behind the machete XP change.

EedatJun 26, 201610 votes

all that was for was to force Junglers into taking smite. You dont even get level 2 off the first camp without a jungle item. You dont get any extra xp for picking up machete, you get the normal amount

MarshbouyJun 26, 20162 votes

no this was a different change, it was pretty recent and buffed the total XP you got off jungle creeps. now you get a little over 1 level on the first camp, you can hit level 5 from a full clear or something.

TFBaamJun 27, 20161 votes

no before you would just get 15 xp with talisman/machete changed to 50 xp and stalkers/skirmishers/trackers gave 30 (or 35) now is 50, allowing your first full clear to give you lvl 4 and then after ur second clear (without buffs) then taking scuttler allows you to hit 6, if you power farm you will hit it right before ur mid or top lane

riot reasoning was some wierd shit like double jg without second person having smite will be better but something something wierd shit*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

TerchioJun 27, 20163 votes

They also adjusted full jungle experience while buffing jungle item exp to 50. According to their patch notes, this makes "junglers now get slightly more experience per clear while non-junglers get slightly less." Overall, this has left almost no effect on my jungler clears, at least that I've noticed. I did forget Smite once, however, and it was horrific. I still have nightmares about that.

My money says clear EXP was BARELY tapped for junglers while non-junglers got shafted pretty hard.

LlaniteJun 27, 201611 votes

Any jungler without smite is a liability. Even if they manage to get pass laning phase, dragon/baron steal is still a thing.

The DeckownerJun 26, 20166 votes

I think the removal of greenward is one of the reason too. More and more Junglers are taking sightstones.

TurquoiseYoshiJun 27, 201624 votes

If anything, I've seen less junglers take Sightstones, due to the release of item 3711

The DeckownerJun 27, 20162 votes

Which reduces the Jungler's actual dueling/chasing power that could be gotten from skirmersher sabre and stalker's blade.

EvewynnJun 27, 201615 votes

And sight stone over an actual item doesn't do the same thing?

Naag OneJun 27, 20169 votes

MasterYi u w0t

I'm not here to support this team, the team is here to support me!

LuxannaVeritasJun 27, 20167 votes

Yi ganks a Malphite top lane and gets a kill.

Malphite -> OMG ks ks n00b jungler (in other words) -> Yi, please stop ganking my lane, even though you will get even more fed if you do.

Ummmmmmmm....

BioticBronyJun 27, 20165 votes

What I hate the most is that laners think they own the buffs. Once had an Anivia come over and take blue buff twice without asking me. I was playing Elise during that game, while Elise has good clears blue buff helps a lot when you use your E > W > Q combo in human form. But the thing that peeves me the most about this is that they don't bother to ask or notify me that they are. Even it was just for courtesy its still nice to know.

The Yetii RiderJun 27, 20163 votes

See, I only donate blue if mid is going well. Otherwise I will take that camp and move on, the XP loss isn't worth my mid laner playing more aggressive and possibly dying for it for 90 seconds.

ProzzakJun 27, 20162 votes

If they do that when I jungle I make sure to have smite for it for the remainder of the game.

TeslynJun 27, 20165 votes

{quoted}

What I hate the most is that laners think they own the buffs. Once had an Anivia come over and take blue buff twice without asking me. I was playing Elise during that game, while Elise has good clears blue buff helps a lot when you use your E > W > Q combo in human form. But the thing that peeves me the most about this is that they don't bother to ask or notify me that they are. Even it was just for courtesy its still nice to know.

The goal of the game is to win. some champions are gated by mana and having the blue is very nice to keep the enemy laner contained. i dont want to tell you your business or anything but it is really really nice to have if you are playing a mana hungry caster.

BioticBronyJun 27, 20164 votes

I don't mind giving blue buff to laners but I just don't like it when they just walk over and take it while not saying anything. Especially when I am not near it to soak up some gold and exp.

A LiberalJun 27, 20164 votes

Hasn't jungle always been the glorified support?

Like literally isn't their role to go on and help lanes that are struggling?

oSEXYPLATYPUSoJun 27, 20163 votes

the meta of the jungler came about as taking advantage of all the gold resources on the map, it benefits the team to have a jungler farming jungle camps then having duo lane splitting exp and gold. hence why there is a support with the adc, however the support dont farm they have gold per 10 items and typically gold per 10 runes, and usually supports are utility based champs that can be usefull without items/ gold more so than an adc, who kit is completely useless without items an gold. that is why some junglers such as shaco, lee , ect have big impacts early in games due to their kits but dont scale greatly with gold and items and can become liabilities to team as games go longer. however a jungler such as amumu even behind still can impact a game late due to the utility of his kit, a well timed bandage toss and ult into a team fight can turn a game. where as a shaco who didnt get ahead and dont have items late game cant tank, cant cc, cant do damage and is a liability

BluePolarizerJun 27, 20163 votes

no. jungler's role is to control objectives because he is the one that has smite. it is also why you do NOT autoattack baron or dragon when the enemies are all up, and the jungler is not around unless you like throwing games and losing. He/she who has the smite, decides the objectives.

That is why junglers almost always think about the game, rather than just go for mechanics. They need to be able to mentally stay ahead of the enemy, even if only by 30 seconds. 30 seconds is all you need.

Halodjin TyrJun 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

no. jungler's role is to control objectives because he is the one that has smite. it is also why you do NOT autoattack baron or dragon when the enemies are all up, and the jungler is not around unless you like throwing games and losing. He/she who has the smite, decides the objectives.

That is why junglers almost always think about the game, rather than just go for mechanics. They need to be able to mentally stay ahead of the enemy, even if only by 30 seconds. 30 seconds is all you need.

Thank you for getting and understanding this! -_- it's so frusterating when I'm trying to get my team to take advantage of those 30 seconds because I've watched 2 core champions back, mid is busy and it's time to do Dragon, and .... Nobody wants to assist.

FlahertyJun 27, 20163 votes

Although I agree with these points, there's nothing more fucking annoying than when the jungler ganks for you, he gets the kill, and then he also taxes your lane because the kill gold wasn't enough.

The DeckownerJun 27, 20163 votes

I never tax after gank but I help my laner push the lane to enemy tower by hitting minions to low hp and rhey can take last hit. This way my laner can have time to recall and come back while the wave gets taken down by the tower and bounce back to a favourable spot. A lot of people see this as taxing altho I am not really taking their farm.

FlahertyJun 27, 20162 votes

That's fine I understand doing that, I'm talking about when they specifically just last hit several minions and leave after getting the kill because they're greedy.

xRiZMAJun 27, 20163 votes

a kill is a kill it doesnt matter who gets it

FlahertyJun 27, 20162 votes

Yeah I understand that, it's okay if they get the kill but it's not okay if they get the kill and then decide they want half a minion wave as well

BlazeBlasterJun 27, 20163 votes

was it ever not?

The DeckownerJun 27, 20161 votes

Remember season 5 when Junglers dominated the meta

HateDaddyJun 27, 20167 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEmrtmiA,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2016-06-27T03:18:19.020+0000)

Remember season 5 when Junglers dominated the meta

Junglers still dominate, they basically decide most games

Swae7Jun 27, 20163 votes

tbh if someone describes the role of jungle to another person that doesn't play league , the latter person could assume it is a supportive role. As a jungler, you help people win their lanes by ganking, you provide vision and you also get objectives that will make the entire team stronger. What do you think?

AFK PushJun 27, 20163 votes

I've had two games recently where junglers say "wtf why are you taking my camps," and it is near late game or I am super behind just trying to get some farm up and they are farmed and fed as fuck.

So no, some junglers have the mentality of a stuckup solo laner as well.

BagguetteJun 27, 20162 votes

As a top laner who recently started playing jungle More, people really love me. Mostly because i gank level 3, they pop their flash because of my Q, i stay in the bush when they come to ward because they usually do after popping their flash, Q THEM, then get first blood.

I don't know why some junglers are assholes who think they own the damn thing, i even let people have buffs after my first clear if they ask.

The DeckownerJun 27, 20163 votes

Many junglers can't properly clear without a blue buff, not all junglers are momentum gankers.

ThéveninJun 27, 20162 votes

If you are a proactive jungler that can push advantages I believe you can carry pretty hard. If you path well, plan ahead of time where you need to gank and adapt, you can solo carry a game. I've been playing Elise recently, and I go on lolnexus and check who are the plat 5 (really division 5 of whatever your elo is) people on the enemy team that have a negative or close to even win loss, and I figure they will tilt and focus their lane so they whine in chat and tilt their team. If I have a mid with 50+ games on a snowbally champ like Fizz and a positive win rate, I'm going to try and push them ahead, which opens up the map to get dragon and invade the enemy jungle. If their jungler ganks bot, I'm gonna take his whole jungle on the other side of the map, get a free gank with no risk of countergank, or try to force a herald for a splitpusher. You can't carry by playing an even game on a jungler, you have to be proactive and really outrotate and outperform the enemy jungler to try to get an advantage in the early/mid game.

Akali is SO HOTJun 27, 20162 votes

If you play freelo tanks in the jungle then yes you are basically a glorified support. If you play carry junglers like Yi, Rengar, Jax, Eve, Diana, etc. then you are not a glorified support.

MLDzXnRRRJun 27, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=Akali is SO HOT,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEmrtmiA,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2016-06-27T05:57:44.797+0000)

If you play freelo tanks in the jungle then yes you are basically a glorified support. If you play carry junglers like Yi, Rengar, Jax, Eve, Diana, etc. then you are not a glorified support.

Yes, you are someone who is useless without kills or afk farming. Even with kills and farm you can fail in teamfights, because of the nature of their kits.

HateDaddyJun 27, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Yes, you are someone who is useless without kills or afk farming. Even with kills and farm you can fail in teamfights, because of the nature of their kits.

It's not any less true for laners. Everyone needs gold, who knew

Akali is SO HOTJun 27, 20163 votes

You can say that for every champ in the game

TheRealBazJun 27, 20162 votes

if anyone, ANYONE takes my rappies they better be ready to lose A LOT of cs

HaloDragonXJun 27, 20162 votes

Play Twitch jungle then. Blue? Who cares. Red? Yours. Taking kills? You need it to snowball. Dies? Blame team. Who's the carry? You.

Theiki KayleJun 27, 20162 votes

It's already become that. I played Nami jungle a week ago. If my ADC hadn't taken the first camp, we'd have won that game. Runic Echoes Nami ganks are no joke.

Unfortunate GameJun 28, 20162 votes

LOL. Basically im a jungle main too, so I get the struggle, and this made me laugh, but... No one takes my buffs, the only buff I give is usually red and thats mid-late game because I play mainly AP champs and idc for it. And if my team takes my camps, I take their cs. It's an even trade off in the end anyway.

Also I almost never give blue up, that shit will always be better on me, unless youre playing like a god (or im in a good mood) you aint getting blue buff from me.

[slayer-jinx-wink]

DIRUJun 27, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEmrtmiA,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-06-26T22:27:33.867+0000)

Mid takes blue, raptor and wolves.

no one said you have to give them

Adc takes red, krug/gromp.

read above

Fails ganking, "noob jungle report"

if you fail at one of the most important things in the early game ofc people are going to flame you

Gets a kill, "gtfo stop taking my cs afk ffs"

now you're just taking it too far, this rarely if ever happens.

morris1Jun 27, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=DILDO MASTER,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEmrtmiA,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2016-06-27T08:40:56.184+0000)

no one said you have to give them

They just steal them. E.g. I'm ganking top lane and bot takes my krugs.

if you fail at one of the most important things in the early game ofc people are going to flame you

Not every gank is a guaranteed kill, some people I see even flame me when I get their summoners.

now you're just taking it too far, this rarely if ever happens.

Oh you'd be surprised.

DIRUJun 28, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Moraru Maurice,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fEmrtmiA,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2016-06-27T14:00:32.838+0000)

They just steal them. E.g. I'm ganking top lane and bot takes my krugs.

Not every gank is a guaranteed kill, some people I see even flame me when I get their summoners.

Oh you'd be surprised.

1 - krugs barely matter, by the time you're back to them, you can take another camp and they'll respawn 2 - i meant failing to assist lanes, dying in a gank that had no counterganks in them 3 - 4k+ games, never seen that happen.