Isn't Garen supposed to be a beginner's champion? Low skillcap and everything?
I was not the villain and still got chunked for 1,055 magic damage at 50% health (1k out of 2k total health) by a level 2 ult.
Lower his base damage and scaling already, please. I can understand sustained damage from tanks like 
and 
but having half my health obliterated by a full tank's ult is a little confusing.
Primaquarius1 votesKeep Calm and DEMACIAAAAA
Ladrac1 votes"Lower his base damage and scaling already" Really? The problem isn't his base damage...the problem is the ultimate. I really enjoyed the old Garen...I am a Garen main, I got 121k points on him and after patch 5.16 I played him 6-7 times I think, because he is banned almost every game. He isn't broken, but he isn't a tank at all. He is a bruiser! He's not like Amumu or Dr.Mundo...he is unique. So let him be the way it is. The single nerf I agree is maybe the ultimate. His Q and movement speed already got nerfed, so don't dare to touch this again! Now it's hard to lane against a Gnar, because you can't even catch him.
Kivolan1 votesIsn't... That what I just said?
Lower the base damage and scaling.
Magic Damage: 175 / 350 / 525 (+ 28.6 / 33.3 / 40% of target's missing health)
Should be more like 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 20 / 25 / 30% of target's missing health)
Though his passive is also what makes him so good in lane. He's manaless and his HP regen allows him to stay in lane much too well, as any form of poke is essentially negated by him backing off for a few seconds.
Gnar is pretty much the one counter to Garen right now because of how well he pokes / kites (and also being manaless). I imagine Vayne might be pretty decent as well, but if he does manage to get on top of you you're done.
Ladrac1 votesOh, I misunderstood :) Sorry...Ye, it's cool. The ult can get a nerf.
Sageace1 votesLower the base damage and scaling.
Magic Damage: 175 / 350 / 525 (+ 28.6 / 33.3 / 40% of target's missing health)
Should be more like 150 / 250 / 350 (+ 20 / 25 / 30% of target's missing health)
Yeah, I take it you haven't played as Garen back then because your suggestion is absurd. It was harder to secure kills back then, and the Villain Mechanic just answered all of our problems as Garen mains. The problem right now is that the Villain Mechanic gives TOO much power to his ultimate because it is ENTIRELY True Damage.
Kivolan1 votesYes, I have... And it was so, so much more balanced back then.
Garen's kit and passive allowed him to deal low, steady damage over time while weathering the lane better than his opponents through his Passive and W.
This reiteration has him dealing too much damage with too high a level of tankiness. He should not be able to 100 - 0 you post-6 like an assassin by building maybe one attack damage item.
Zorae421 votesExcept he can't 100-0 you like an assassin.
He has to run up to you, spin on you for a decent amount of time, then if you're the villain and squishy he can maybe ult you to kill you. And then he has to run away just as slowlt as he came in since he now has no way of securing any more kills.
Assassins appear out of nowhere/from a whole screen away instantly, 100-0 you in 0.5 seconds, and then use their high mobility to get out as fast as they got in.
I much prefer kitable raid boss Garen to "only counter play is insane reflexes+hard cc/mobility" Assassins.
Bulletproof Car1 votesLONG LIVE THE COUNTER TO RIVEN DEMACIA
IcyPepper1 votesGaren isn't a full tank.
He can build like one, but he's a juggernaut, not a full tank. He should be dealing more damage than Amumu, no word on Mundo though.
Squibaunto1 votesVayne still shreds him in .2 seconds. Just play Vayne.
Sageace1 votesI don't believe the amount of damage you specified for one reason: Garen's Tier 2 ult should do 350 plus 33% of missing HP. And everyone has Magic resist, so the damage should have been reduced by about 30%.
One thing to point out: Garen is a Fighter. A Fighter is a Tank with assassination potential. Not as durable as a tank and not as destructive as an assassin, but could potentially become either if they build and play correctly.
The reason Garen is so strong right now is because Riot overloaded him with a third passive: the Villain Mechanic. And to top it off, they buffed his most powerful ability by making it true damage... Absurdity. I am cool with Garen having true damage on his ultimate, but I never expected Riot to give his ENTIRE ult true damage. I have always been posting to give him a partial amount.
What's dawning on me is how people are struggling to counter Garen. His early game is weaker now. Pantheon, Teemo, and many ranged champions can keep Garen off by poking him for days, forcing him to not farm and stay near turret. I had to fight Kennen and I could not farm effectively because she kept poking and stunning me. Kiting champions and ranged champions are the ultimate counter against Garen. How are people not doing this?
Vekkna1 votesRe: Teemo,
You would think this would work out, but what ends up happening is that Garen just runs back to turret to regen a stupid amount of hp. You inevitably push the wave by CSing, and when the wave gets to his turret, he CSes the whole wave with a spin. Yeah, he'll lose a few CS. Meanwhile, you're in permanent gank position from level 2-6 (at least). After 6, you're a free kill if you stay in lane with less than 50-60% hp.
Once you hit level 6, the tables are turned and you're at a massive disadvantage, and a Garen with half a brain will all-in you at every opportunity. Blind does nothing for you, and if he can silence you before you can W, you're a dead rat walking.
Beyond that, he can build 85 MR for less than it costs you to build 30 spell pen with the bonus of reducing your slow and blind by 25% and increasing his passive regen by 20%. There's just no getting through that without major ganks. It sucks.