Protip from a support main: If you don't buy sightstone you are holding your team back.

TheLittlestLulu·Jul 16, 2016·120 votes·7,611 views

If you don't buy a sightstone and the enemy support does, they are going to outright butt-fondle you in the vision war. Also bear in mind that when a support buys a sightstone they are actually getting TWO sight items, which is the sightstone and the sweeper, while you are still stuck with your one garbage yellow trinket wondering why your team keeps getting caught.

If the enemy team knows how to play a video game then vision is going to be way more important than your 40 AP blasting wand. Sorry but that's just how it is.

122 Comments

BlanchimontJul 16, 201639 votes

Pro Tip from a Support Main: Other people need to help with vision because of ward limit per player.

It seems like they usually forget about this as well.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20162 votes

what you didn't get the memo yet after this long it's the "support"job to ward no one else. Only has to get high tier that map awareness get developed team wide where vision start to have an actual impact. Unlike lower tier where it's a money dumb where you can see enemy player collapse on your teammate 1 minutes before it actually happen even after you warned that player during all the time. look at thethunderoar or even jayhog1992 comment if you don't belive me. That what people don't understand about league nothing is reserved to 1 role. Minions,neutral,objectives even builds in some case.

Sebbo the PlebboJul 16, 201611 votes

Nothing is completely 'reserved' for one role, but the roles tend to focus on particular aspects, which is why the roles developed in the first place.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20165 votes

role got developed because their is no meta, and the high tier (pro player) decided to create their own 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid, 1 support, 1 adc and the mass of sheep followed it and everyone think there's a meta but there is none beside the one you create in your mind. proof of that go do a match vs ai do they have a jungler or a support, answer is no. because the meta the ai adopted is 2-1-2. why do pro now rotate because 1-1-1-2 doesn't work as well anymore so they created the 2-1-1-1. the only true meta is your ability to adapt to the situation in every way.

TurquoiseYoshiJul 16, 20163 votes

Maybe, and this is just a suggestion, the bots don't have a clear meta comp because... they're meant for new players? Well, also because it's very hard to program a working jungler, but it's mostly the first. Heck, they even usually have a double tank/bruiser top, mage mid, marksman and support/mage bot. You can't really say that the bots that are made to lose are good indicators of how the meta works.

And now an LCS lesson. The pros rotate now because bot lane bullies are really hard to deal with recently, and starting out with more gold (from the rotated tower) and making that bully matchup last less time (because then the mid-game comes quicker) makes those mid/late-game ADC choices stronger. And that STILL has no impact on the roles, since the pros still use the Top=Tank/Bruiser, Jungle=Whatever that can jungle well, Mid=Mage/Assassin, ADC=Marksman, Support=Support setup, even with these rotations.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20161 votes

pro players often can't handle bronze because they pull shanigan why because they don't always follow the meta

TurquoiseYoshiJul 16, 20166 votes

Pro players have trouble in Bronze because they're so bad that they're unpredictable. Pro players expect a level of strategic competence from their opponents, as they usually play in Challenger and Master. However, when the opponent is incompetent and has no idea how high-level decision-making and macro play works, the pro player is reduced to a confused guy with really good mechanics.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20161 votes

and that's why you should stop imitating pro take what you like and leave the rest. like myself i never bought ward, vision has never been an issue for me and never will be for 2 reasons, 1- i watch mini map quite often and by watching how my opponent in lane react i can tell if i'm about to be ganked. 2- i don't force fight where i can't get or keep vision for the entire fight. But it only apply to me not the rest of my team if they struggle with vision then they should be the one getting it. The trinket itself is far enough for vision management.

The Last BalladJul 17, 20162 votes

I can already tell you are a team player.

Hinagiku33Jul 18, 20162 votes

It's the same in Poker.

Doesn't matter how awesome your poker face is or how well you can bluff if your opponent doesn't understand bluffing or when to fold.

Same with Magic the Gathering. Leaving a few Islands untapped to bluff that you have a counter spell works on experienced players but fails horribly against novice players that don't understand the threat.

Sebbo the PlebboJul 17, 20162 votes

Time for a history lesson. When the game first came out, it was pretty chaotic, and you could play any champion in any role and be successful because few people had to knowledge required to counter pick. Then, as people started realising the value of farm, they started assigning themselves dedicated lanes to farm in. But oh no, there are more players than lanes, better have someone dedicated to farming the jungle so the team has more gold. And so the role of jungler developed.

But there were still 3 lanes and 4 players, so it was clear that there would not be enough income to sustain 4 carry champions, so someone would have to go without farm and try and help the team as much as possible without carrying by damage. And so the role of support developed.

Now which type of character would benefit most from having this support lane with them? Tanks don't need to be supported because they are more valuable for their utility. Mages can't be supported because splitting the exp would put them behind in lvls and therefore make their abilities do less dmg. However, marksmen are perfect candidates for being supported, because they rely predominantly on gold and not on levels, because they do most of their damage with autos. And so the support/ADC combo was developed. This duo lane was assigned bot lane because it is closest to dragon and therefore can have most impact on dragon fights.

The association with mid lane and high damage carries is simply because mid is (obviously) the central lane, so these carries can have most impact on the entire map. They also get a slight level advantage (which therefore makes their abilities do more damage) because the minions reach mid lane faster. And so the roles of carry midlaners developed.

Now look at top lane. Before herald, there was nothing of any importance on that side of the map, so you were unlikely to receive any help from your team due to the lost pressure on bot lane/dragon if the jungler was to come top. Therefore top laners need to be champions that are able to survive on their own with little assistance from their team. This means is was unreliable to play any carries top, because if you fell behind your team would be unable to help and you would be useless. It was therefore logical that top laners would be champions that do not require much gold to operate and would still be useful to their team (through utility/peel) if they fell behind. And so tanky and bruiser champions were played top.

I'm not entirely sure why I wrote all this out, but I guess I just wanted to demonstrate how the pros didn't just pick lane numbers out of a hat and decide to role with it. There is a reason this meta has existed for 5+ years and not seen any major changes, and that's because this meta is logical and optimal.

TotalwanabeJul 18, 20161 votes

logical yes optimal is left to interpretation, what i love to do is play out of meta sometime has a jungler i will forsake jungle and do a 2 tops deny farm and dominate kill the enemy top the positive effect it will have is your team will get the lead fast and hard, negative effect is rest of your team will have a more stressful time in lane until teamfight start to occur. Why does it work simple because it's a 2v1 one or both of us are a counter pick for that top lane and sadly junglers can't be in 4 areas at the same times.

Sebbo the PlebboJul 29, 20161 votes

This is strat is absolute garbage, there is a reason people stop playing duo top after level 10. You will be thousands of gold behind the enemy team because there is so much lost income from the jungle camps being unfarmed, as well as the enemy top laner having a level (and probable gold) advantage over you. Not only this, but you will also lack all objective control due to the lack of smite, and you will also lose most of your map pressure due to everyone being accounted for in lanes.

TotalwanabeJul 29, 20161 votes

probably why i always force enemy jungler to forsake jungle unwillingly unless he love raging and insulting his top lane from dying over everytime he show up in lane

PartholonianJul 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nothing is completely 'reserved' for one role, but the roles tend to focus on particular aspects, which is why the roles developed in the first place.

True, but the support role isn't even about vision. It's about ally-saving abilities, CC and utility. Vision was tacked on to the role because paying gold for vision makes you statistically weaker, but that has less effect on Dark Passage, Magical Journey or Solar Flare than it does on a 100-0 burst combo.

The most logical vision focus would actually be the jungler, who is supposed to be everywhere anyway -- but since they have to fight when they get there, they can't usually afford to kick themselves in the nuts statswise (when they can you get a double sightstone meta, or this season, tracker's).

Sebbo the PlebboJul 17, 20161 votes

It's about ally-saving abilities

But vision does save your allies

Tobias BracknerJul 16, 20162 votes

Even low tier wards are OP.

Sayin "don't ward it's bronze" is dumb as hell. People will never learn how to play the game at low level then suddenly have to learn all this extra bs at high level.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20163 votes

people don't learn how to play the game they mostly learn how to imitate what others do. I often get called a troll for picking mid udyr. People don't realize that most mage in mid can't even burst out is turtle shield like myself i can completely ignore a lux and farm until she annoy me and i send her to the fountain. Why i'm called a troll because pro player never do it, simple has that. the moment they will they will stop calling you a troll. like back in season 3 im probably one of the first player to pick mid zilean vs zed was called a troll after awhile started to see a lot more mid zilean and in s4 wasn't called a troll anymore for it.

Tobias BracknerJul 16, 20162 votes

I agree about the imitation thing, but we're talking about wards and sightstone.

Even if people will argue with me that sightstone isn't necessary I'll gladly explain to them why they are wrong. Warding isn't just the support's job and it's vital at all levels of play.

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20162 votes

vital if you can't deal without it or you're the kind of player that love forcing fight in jungle or fog of war area non stop. Like your doing a 5 man push mid you won't ward mid lane itself. so it's not vital but optional since it will increase your chance at catching a flank attack. because even without the ward you will have time to see and react to the ambush unless you were all in which would still happen even if you had wards anyway.

Tobias BracknerJul 16, 20161 votes

If you are doing a 5 man push midlane by god you ward midlane. That way you know what the enemy team is planning as they collapse (if they collapse)

TotalwanabeJul 16, 20161 votes

it also mean you don't watch mini map often enough or you can't predict when the ambush gonna happen. like a yi will ambush mid fight and a hecarim will ambush to initiate you can predict those thing by detecting patterns. Everyone has patterns some have very predictable one or are even very telegraphed almost has telegraphed has an ekko.

Tobias BracknerJul 17, 20162 votes

Homie, you are bringing up relying on predictions which can be manipulated and are extremely unreliable. Why force your team to rely on Yomi when instead you could literally just see exactly what the enemy team is doing?

The Last BalladJul 17, 20162 votes

Why go "THE ADC TOOK TWO STEPS FORWARD A GANK IS COMING RUN FOR THE HILLS!" when you can just put a ward down and see that a gank is for sure coming and not just the enemy adc bluffing to get you to back off?

Predictions are useful, but relying on someone's guess is rather stupid when you can have certainty. If you notice that the enemy adc goes forward abnormally when a gank is coming, and you always react by backing away, then they can just do that and force you back (because you have no vision) while their jungle and mid get dragon(which puts you at a disadvantage because of your lack of vision, so you can't even contest it for fear of the never coming gank)

TotalwanabeJul 18, 20161 votes

when i play has jungle if i see an opportunity to gank i will take it doesn't matter if enemy team has vision or not because if i decide to show up it's already too late for them to survive even if they go hide under a turret.

JRobin31Jul 17, 20162 votes

I agree. It seems to me that when I am the only player warding ( item 2049 support), it feels like I'm trying to plug holes in a sinking boat.
But when my teammates ward too, it feels like we are an aircraft carrier capital ship. I support building on supports, but whether I build or not, I certainly don't feel like I'm the one holding my team back. Skipping item 2049 is something support mains can do when they have the skill and experience to understand when and how to play that way. I can't recommend skipping , so I won't go into the details of when and how to skip . But I will say that if your support skips and you complain about it, then you look bad because warding is a team effort (not something that just the support does).

UmioJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I agree. It seems to me that when I am the only player warding ( support), it feels like I'm trying to plug holes in a sinking boat.
But when my teammates ward too, it feels like we are an aircraft carrier capital ship. I support building on supports, but whether I build or not, I certainly don't feel like I'm the one holding my team back. Skipping is something support mains can do when they have the skill and experience to understand when and how to play that way. I can't recommend skipping , so I won't go into the details of when and how to skip . But I will say that if your support skips and you complain about it, then you look bad because warding is a team effort (not something that just the support does).

intelligent response

I Go Pew Pew PewJul 18, 20161 votes

Yes, but that doesn't really have anything to do with what OP said lol.

TheThundersRoarJul 16, 201612 votes

Thank you.

The people here who get defensive and go all "I have the freedom to NOT build sightstone don't tell me how to play my role!"...I don't get it. What if the ADC went all like "I have the freedom to NOT HIT MUH ENEMIES don't tell me what to do!"? Instant report. Because that's literally his job.

As a support, your job is to spend gold on utility (like vision, Locket, Talisman, FH) so that your team can afford other things, like damage or tankiness. So please buy the Sightstone. Ensuring your team has vision is one of your main purposes and should be a top priority for gold spending, not that measly 50 AP. Trinkets are not enough for the team's vision.

KingnewgameplusJul 16, 201611 votes

Vayne item 3007 item 3117 item 3060 item 3902 item 3028 item 3643 I HAVE THE RIGHT TO BUILD WHATEVER I WANT, MOM!

The MomJul 16, 20162 votes

Grounded. Go to your room and think on your behaviour.

It Hertz When IPJul 16, 20162 votes

Someone made an interesting comment on this subject on a different thread. THe gist of the point was that a support's job is not to ward. A support's job is to support, whatever that may consist of. So while every half-decent support agrees that SS is vital (borderline: mandatory), we may not rush it as our first complete item. In laning phase, if we aren't seeing much jungle activity near us and there's a specific support item that would make my ADC's laning phase substantially better or keep us both alive you can be damn sure I'm going to rush that.

Once the laning phase has ended SS becomes mandatory. Before that, when supports aren't roaming as much and are primarily babysitting the ADC, the priority is whatever keeps bot team alive and helps get the ADC CS/kills and/or tower takedowns. With good map awareness and minimal communication about warding, bot team's two yellow trinkets are enough to keep river decently warded against surprise visits.

Akali is SO HOTJul 16, 20167 votes

What if you're playing Soraka and vision doesn't matter cuz all you have to do is press R and W and make your teammates never die

ShadowatomJul 16, 201611 votes

What if I told you, that you could potentially keep your teammates from dying without your R or W? :o

ZakithJul 16, 20162 votes

Then you'd be lying. Teammates who look at the map?! Myths.

Soraka RulesJul 16, 20166 votes

What is with all these sightstone posts o 3o;;; I never seen a support not buy one ( in normals or ranked)...

Velzard of KozJul 16, 201613 votes

It's not about sightstone. Everytime there's topic about something that gets highly upvoted, you can soon expect three other posts with the same topic where people act like they're bringing enlightment.

Malicious Metal posted topic asking people to stop the memewar? Two other posts emerged acting like they're trying to help and not upvote-farm because MM's post was not enough for people to calm down.

Is there a rant that some item is too weak and the post gets 100 upvotes? Wel here comes three other topics saying basically the same where people are like ,,So I've been thinking lately and I just hapenned to get this idea that someone else got at the same time despite the fact I had like two Seasons to come up with it. Funny how I came to complain just now!"

I've seen a topic how Ohmwrecker is weak early and useless lategame. I am waiting for two other such topics to happen soon If people even know the item exists.

I get that some people might have forgotten these and feel encouraged by someone else that this topic needs attention and that they no longer have to fear of downvote parade. And some of these people have the decency to say "In response to this topic I link..." clearly showing they got the idea from the other topic, now just gving their own point of view. But there's so much of them that just look ike upvote-parasitism.

dragon1xxJul 16, 20163 votes

And I'm B3 and SIghtstones are a rarity. Pink wards don't exist.

DeathBot666Jul 16, 20165 votes

Vayne The enemy JG is fed, get a sightstone you noob support!1!!!!

Evelynn Good luck with that.

UmioJul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Poop Stained Cat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7GxVJes,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-07-16T10:27:54.586+0000)

What is with all these sightstone posts o 3o;;; I never seen a support not buy one ( in normals or ranked)...

I never buy SS and I main support

Soraka RulesJul 18, 20161 votes

Well uhh o 3o;;; maybe thats why you're Bronze

BakedLotionJul 16, 20164 votes

If you can read enemy movement well then you won't need sightstone. Don't blame the support for not building something because it's the "meta"

JQKAndreiJul 16, 201611 votes

That's why challengers buy sightstones even on junglers, they just suck at reading enemy movements, go teach them!

KidKaiserJul 16, 20163 votes

wards make reading a shit ton easier. why guess when u can just light up a spot. or a forest\

BakedLotionJul 16, 20162 votes

{quoted}

wards make reading a shit ton easier. why guess when u can just light up a spot. or a forest\

Then ward yourself... This is the entire argument here. Stop forcing people to buy a certain item because you think they need to. Where does it say "Supports must buy a sightstone every game"? You want vision? Go buy a sightstone. The support isn't your bitch. They can help elsewhere.

DrCyanideJul 16, 20162 votes

Where does it say "Supports must buy a sightstone every game"?

The same place it says a Jungler needs to take Smite to be effective. A Jungler makes life harder for themselves and their teams of they don't have Smite, a Support makes it harder on the team without a Sightstone.

I've built Sightstone on carries when I've had a Support too self-centered to do their job. It results in lost pressure on the map, because someone who is suppose to be threatening an objective, or defending a tower, or farming a wave, is off roaming around the map trying to get vision. There's a reason Supports and Junglers are the best suited to carry Sightstones, their play pattern supports it better than any other position.

BakedLotionJul 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

The same place it says a Jungler needs to take Smite to be effective. A Jungler makes life harder for themselves and their teams of they don't have Smite, a Support makes it harder on the team without a Sightstone.

I've built Sightstone on carries when I've had a Support too self-centered to do their job. It results in lost pressure on the map, because someone who is suppose to be threatening an objective, or defending a tower, or farming a wave, is off roaming around the map trying to get vision. There's a reason Supports and Junglers are the best suited to carry Sightstones, their play pattern supports it better than any other position.

A jungler needs smite because they can't buy their jungle item or clear without dying aka useless A support doesn't become useless if they don't have sight stone...

DrCyanideJul 16, 20162 votes

A Jungler can do it, it's just much harder. They're not useless, just not nearly as useful. Exactly the same as a Support without a Sightstone, not useless, but not nearly as useful.

BakedLotionJul 16, 20161 votes

{quoted}

A Jungler can do it, it's just much harder. They're not useless, just not nearly as useful. Exactly the same as a Support without a Sightstone, not useless, but not nearly as useful.

A jungler without smite directly affects his role... A support without a god damn item can still function. Much more than a jungler without smite.

A jungler without smite can't buy his jungle item, ganks like 15x less than the enemy jungler, loses damage, loses objective control, loses sustain.

A support without sightstone has 3 less wards around the map. (Which can be lowered down to 2 if you use green trinket)

???

Mister SupportJul 17, 20161 votes

Yes but with a sightstone you can also pick up the sweeper trinket, which will deny the enemy vision and potentially remove all of their wards from an entire section of the map, making for easy picks and objective taking. And don't say "get sweeper without sightstone because then you have no wards to see the enemy.