Can the next champion be a tank?

Slythion·Dec 20, 2016·34 votes·2,319 views

The last full tank that wasn't confined to the support role (hey there Tahm Kench) was Sion (VGU) 2 years ago, Gnar (although he's hybridish) 2 years ago, or Braum (once again, confined to support) 3 years ago. It kinda depends if you consider Gnar as a full tank (despite his mini form) but Sion was a VGU (so he wasn't a newly released tank) and Braum is still confined to the support role.

Actually, this link goes back for 4 whole years and there hasn't been a real full-tank champion released outside of the support role in that whole time. Riot please

http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/champions-skins/champion-release?page=1

Edit: some quick clarification (because my terms evaded me while originally writing this post), I want more Vanguards, not Wardens. Someone that can engage and actually start a fight while not being limited to just the support role (think

69 Comments

queen alisaDec 20, 20167 votes

Personally, I feel there's way too many tanks as of now haha. I believe we could use more supports, pure supports like nami.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 20, 20167 votes

No, mage-y heal supports are already cancerous because their itemization is the best in the game right now. Plus, we just got Ivern, and he can step into that niche.

Fashion MageDec 21, 20164 votes

This post clearly isn't biased at all. Caster supports having decent itemization is not justification for the last pure support being released four years ago.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 21, 20163 votes

Ivern is a caster support.

Fondling GemsDec 21, 20164 votes

Ivern is a Jungler that supports the team and happens to be viable in the support role... kinda like how Brand is a mid lane mage that happens to function as a support. That is very different from a champion that is built for the support role. Not saying I wouldn't also like a new tank but your argument is pretty weak.

Someone being able to step in a role is not the same as having a new champ built for that role.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 21, 20163 votes

Ivern is a jungler that supports his team through magelike casts, including his root, shield, and summon. Ivern isn't simply capable of 'stepping into' the botlane support role. While his passive encourages him to jungle he is fully viable as a support and loses little. I have played Ivern as a support and used my passive only to take Krugs every now and then and steal enemy camps when we get ahead.

His build path reflects this nature. Ivern loves the current caster support itemization - Locket, Redemption, Athenes, Ardent, Mikhael's - it all works great on him.

Fondling GemsDec 21, 20163 votes

The thing is that he isn't built around supporting a champion 24/7 He is built for coming in for short ganks then going to clear his jungle.

He is like Naut. He was specifically designed around a different role. That doesn't mean he doesn't still function well in another role, in this case support. Support is one of those roles that just about any champion can fulfill with some smart playing due to the many ways one can support someone. I pride myself on being able to play stupid ass things support and making them function.

For me, J4 is often a support. He doesn't just "step into the role" either. he has an armour shred, aoe knockup, AS boost for his ADC, an aoe lockdown, and an aoe slow. Literally only his passive isn't useful in the context of supporting. I personally consider him a great support. Does that make him a real support? Not really. Was he made for the support role? Nope. Now we can say the exact same thing about Ivern. Heck, J4's passive is more useful to a support than Ivern's. Ivern also has an aoe slow. He has an aoe knockup like J4 too. He can give his ADC a gapcloser sure, but J4 can just ult them and let his adc walk up to them. Sure he has his shields, but J4 has his attack speed buffs. His ult provides extra damage, but so does J4's Passive and Q, one of which actually directly help his adc's damage.

So why would you consider Ivern fulfilling the position of a recent caster support when the oh so similar J4 is by no means a support. Just because he fills the support role well does not mean he was designed for that role, nor should he be considered as Riot having recently added a bot lane support, especially when he is still mostly a jungler?

THE RlVER KlNGDec 21, 20162 votes

You are saying Ivern isn't a caster support by comparing him to Jarvan, who even if he is taken as a support, will build the Relic line and then either pure tank or bruiser-y? That is literally comparing apples to oranges.

It is your argument that is weak. Ivern is a support, and has success in both the jungle and the bot lane. Just because he isn't some pure healer like Soraka or Nami doesn't mean we need another one right when we just got him. He provides his team with beneficial buffs through spellcasts, and thus is a caster support in the same vein.

Fondling GemsDec 21, 20162 votes

What you are confusing is the term support, as in class, vs the role support, as in lane. Ivern is a support (class) but not a true support (role)

He was not designed for bot lane nor is he a true support (role) in that regard. He is a jungler (also role) who is a support (class) in the same way Malphite is a top (role) diver/initiator (class)

Nami is a support (role) support (class), specifically being an enchanter support (class) which Ivern is. However Ivern is a jungler enchanter support, not a support enchanter support, which are quite different.

Yes he can be played like a support enchanter support, but that is fundamentally no different from playing J4 (top (role) diver/initiator (class)) as (support (role) diver/initiator (class))

Support (role) is not the position either were designed for and as such, despite being able to be played in said role, they are not supports (role)

What Extra Diet Pepsi was asking for was a Support (role) which Ivern is not, despite being able to function in said role.

RalanrDec 20, 20167 votes

Don't forget Poppy. But I'd also love a solo lane or jungle tank.

Maximum MordeDec 20, 20166 votes

An actual tank though. Like Sergeant Hammer.

Suspicious XebraDec 21, 20165 votes

No tanks please, we need more varied supports!

5000000000000000Dec 21, 20169 votes

Support variety just depends on the meta. Making a new support that's good in the meta won't change much, and making a new support that's against the meta but regardlessly strong will just be some pick/ban monstrosity.

ShaolinToiletDec 21, 20165 votes

I want some unique supports though.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 20, 20162 votes

Tahm Kench isn't even a Vanguard because he has no engage.

RalanrDec 20, 20164 votes

Yeah, dude is a Warden tank.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 20, 20167 votes

Exactly. The tanks we have been getting are support Wardens. It's about time we got a nice engage tank.

RalanrDec 20, 20163 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3gW8FVb,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-12-20T19:37:37.125+0000)

Exactly. The tanks we have been getting are support Wardens. It's about time we got a nice engage tank.

Agreed.

Asayake 5150glowDec 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3gW8FVb,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-12-20T19:33:34.630+0000)

Tahm Kench isn't even a Vanguard because he has no engage.

Ult?

Although he's more of a carry protector.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 22, 20161 votes

Abyssal Voyage, when used offensively, is a flanking tool. If used incorrectly or at the wrong time, the enemy team can also always just turn on you and your buddy.

Try using it to pop up into the middle of the enemy team and tell me how that compares to Malph, Sejuani, or Amumu ultimates.

Asayake 5150glowDec 22, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=THE RlVER KlNG,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f3gW8FVb,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-12-22T03:20:18.491+0000)

Abyssal Voyage, when used offensively, is a flanking tool. If used incorrectly or at the wrong time, the enemy team can also always just turn on you and your buddy.

Try using it to pop up into the middle of the enemy team and tell me how that compares to Malph, Sejuani, or Amumu ultimates.

Think of it as popping up in the middle of the enemy team with a Darius, Illaoi, Malph, Amumu, or Sejuani.

THE RlVER KlNGDec 22, 20161 votes

Darius and Illaoi have no engage. People can walk away from Juggernats in ways that they cannot with Sejuani and Amumu. Abyssal Voyage is not engage because it does not provide AoE CC. It also has a sizeable delay, so, that gives even more time for people to walk away.

Engage refers specifically to Vanguards, or any champion who can reliably force a fight with AoE CC. That is not what Tahm Kench does.

HahahahyenaDec 21, 20162 votes

there hasnt been a pure support in quite a while, like nami or janna}

And A Real HieroDec 21, 20162 votes

A knight would be cool.

CowseedDec 21, 20161 votes

Mordekaiser Garen JarvanIV

That alley's been to quite a bit.

Very Epic GuyDec 21, 20162 votes

Sion was 2 years ago? How the shit?

Stemw3Dec 21, 20162 votes

Don't know what you're complaining about, the last champ we got, already is a (secondary role) Tank °L° http://i.imgur.com/6p0Jq7X.png http://i.imgur.com/4P0kbdD.png

RalanrDec 21, 20162 votes

Secondary roles rarely mean anything. Especially with the new class system.

dynamo312Dec 20, 20161 votes

I like assassin more.

SkiasDec 21, 20164 votes

{quoted}

I like assassin more.

You got Camille, the assassin posing as a fighter.

Troll for TrumpDec 21, 20163 votes

The fact that people think Camille is an assassin is concerning. She's meant to be a diver, and does an assassin's job better than an assassin.

RalanrDec 21, 20163 votes

Because frankly she can actually survive the burst from her targets.

Fashion MageDec 21, 20161 votes

Considering that a tank support got released last year (Tahm), and considering that the last pure support (Nami) got released four years ago, I think it's clear which is more deserving of a new champion.

Kled and Illaoi can also serve as tanks, and as a whole there are a fair bit more non-support tanks than there are pure supports. There are about 13~ non-support tanks in the game, and there are 6 pure supports. Again, I think it's clear which is more deserving of a new champion.

Wet DrymanDec 21, 20162 votes

Last pure support was Ivern actually (he is Enchanter just like Nami) and in 2015 Riot released Bard who is an Enchanter and goes 99% of times bot. OP doesn't want Warden (champions like Shen , Tahm Kench or Poppy) who acts like support. He wants Vanguard (champion like Zac, Gragas or Sion) who starts the fight. Ivern was released not that much time ago and Bard was released in 2015 while the last Vanguard - Zac was released in 2013. Even if we count reworks like Gragas and Sion (which were in 2014) and count Rek'Sai (but she isn't tank and was released too at 2014) Vanguard class still deserves a new champion more than supports.

Illaoi can't be an engage tank because she hasn't got any hard CC in her kit and has only a short range dash that needs target to use + her style and in game look doesn't fit tank at all. Kled doesn't feel much like a tank either. Besides ult he hasn't got any reliable form of CC (his Bear Trap needs too much time to actually apply so it's not an option for engaging and it's a skillshot that is easy to miss).

There are actually 10 Enchanters: Janna, Morgana (half Disruptor), Nami, Bard, Zilean, Karma, Taric (half Warden), Sona, Soraka, Ivern and we've got Kayle who is half Enchanter but since no one plays her as support anymore let's ignore her.

Let's look at Vanguards: Gragas (was mean't to be AP Bruiser after rework), Zac, Leona (half Warden and she pretty much sits only on botlane peeling for ADC), Malphite, Amumu, Rammus, Sejuani, Nautilus, Sion and Rammus. Some people count Rek'Sai and Skarner but Rek'Sai is knockup bot and was mean't to be a Diver and Skarner is a Juggernaut. It gives us 10 Vanguards. In terms of their kits Enchanters are pretty diverse unlike Vanguards who will possibly get a class update somewhere this season to fix that.

SlythionDec 21, 20162 votes

you listed Rammus twice so only 9 wardens, 8 if you don't count Leona (especially because she's limited to the support role 99% of the time)

I take that as a sign that we especially need a vanguard as the next champion considering how caster supports have up to 2 more legitimate champions more than the vanguard class

StarboyˇDec 21, 20161 votes

The game actually needs more supports and adcs

CowseedDec 21, 20161 votes

I would rather a melee bot-laner. Like what riot tried with Yasuo and Mordekaiser .

HyperiönDec 21, 20162 votes

Pls no.

REVERT MORDDec 21, 20161 votes

that'll be three failed attempts at trying to make bot lane melees work.

I don't ever recall bot lane yas as a common thing (Started in season 6) but I've only heard that patch 5.16 and 5.17 mordekaiser was broken.

I don't think it's even possible. Melee's can't function as consistent damage dealers unless they're outlandishly broken.

CowseedDec 21, 20161 votes

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/7d/7dd268e026a970ce08eaf662c1ee3236ca6703af7f1f40e52b868a3980f788db.jpg

the weeabooDec 21, 20161 votes

Nah Camille is tank.

SlythionDec 21, 20163 votes

there is a difference between being tanky and being part of the class of champions known as tanks, or more specifically to what I was talking about, vanguards

LXIIDec 22, 20161 votes

In your edit you literally ask for someone that can go in and start a fight... that's Camille.

SlythionDec 22, 20162 votes

a Vanguard (what I want) and a Diver (like Camille) are different as well, but I'm too tired right now to give you riot's exact definition of each sub-class.

But there is a difference

RalanrDec 22, 20162 votes

Biggest is that Divers are single target while Vanguards are AoE.

A diver forces a fight with you. A vanguard forces a fight with your team.

AMYS GRAVEDec 21, 20161 votes

I mean, Tahm found himself in the support role, but he was quite popular in top and jungle. He still finds himself top from time to time. I don't think its fair to say he's confined to the support role.

RalanrDec 21, 20161 votes

He was originally built for support with the intention of going solo lane as secondary.

AMYS GRAVEDec 21, 20161 votes

Yeah, but he wasn't exclusively support, especially on release he found success top lane.