what can be done about Garen

Big Lincoln·Jan 17, 2017·3 votes·1,296 views

larger rework is almost certainly going to happen somewhere down the road, since he's the biggest one trick pony still in the game (except maybe annie)

there's no way E is going anywhere, it defines him. at best we'll probably see some shitty delay attached to it. I would like the armor shred removed in favor of power elsewhere; unnecessary that he has it imo.

so that leaves his QWR and his passive. what can be done about any of these to make Garen a more modern champion with a reason to pick him? what should he be good at; what time of the game should he be strongest?

30 Comments

Truck SanJan 17, 20174 votes

Garen is broken... E shred armor....Q silences/movement buff/does alot of dmg.....w adds armor and magic resist and reduce dmg taken.... ult is (ugh don't get me started) his passive is ok

SEKAIJan 17, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kiyoshi Neko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-17T04:44:00.707+0000)

Garen is broken... E shred armor....Q silences/movement buff/does alot of dmg.....w adds armor and magic resist and reduce dmg taken.... ult is (ugh don't get me started) his passive is ok

Not sure if joking but I'll bite.

He's not so broken when he has nearly no direct lock down as well as sporting a pitiful "mobility", not to mention besides his HP bar he rarely scales in anything, you know

TworieJan 17, 20171 votes

If his "pitiful mobility" is so pitiful... why can't I catch him?

SEKAIJan 17, 20172 votes

{quoted}

If his "pitiful mobility" is so pitiful... why can't I catch him?

At early levels, Q's MS duration is only 2 seconds plus minus 0.5 seconds, with an 8 second CD. You can easily catch him, it's that he will most likely survive you if there aren't many of you.

Garen is just a silence bot (also a lane shove machine when build some damage) who's really hard to kill that could occasionally pick up near dead enemies from a fight. He really can't do much.

SALT SHAKER 28Jan 20, 20172 votes

Garen isn't broken, you're just low elo

Truck SanJan 31, 20171 votes

k. You sir are telling yourself a lie, but i will respect your opinion and I would kindly like it if you don't insult me. [slayer-jinx-catface]

SALT SHAKER 28Jan 31, 20173 votes

Shut the fuck up LOL

You literally are bronze and you're trying to debate about champion balance with somebody much higher Elo than yourself

There is a reason you are hardstuck low bronze because u think Garen is "OP" when he is barely mediocre in high elo you trash kid

Truck SanFeb 1, 20171 votes

Ok. Sir, I don't understand why you are so hostile but I would like it if you respect my opinion on the matter considering we come from different sides of the same coin. You may say garen isn't op coming from your league experience but coming from mine garen is op (now) considering his E shreds armor and add that with a blade cleaver and you got yourself little to no armor. Also sir cussing will and won't help me see your way of thinking and I think that is quite childish. Also insulting people will not make them go from "You're wrong" to "You're right" the world doesn't work like that and looking through what you comment on I see that you're main insult is "Low elo trash" now we can continue this conversion back and forth but that would only feed your flames (which I am surprise doesn't go out considering you're user name is "salt") I will you with this. Please have a wonderful and good day sir. [slayer-jinx-catface]

SALT SHAKER 28Feb 2, 20172 votes

As I said,

You are bronze, therefore you are trash,

The only reason you find garen strong is because you are trash. Garen is designed to beat bad players such as yourself

The game is balanced around platinum elo +, which I am and you do not fall in this category

Therefore you have no say on champion balance you low elo weeb trash

FioraWillCarryFeb 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=SALT SHAKER 28,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-02T13:45:20.995+0000)

The game is balanced around platinum elo +, which I am and you do not fall in this category

Therefore you have no say on champion balance you low elo weeb trash

The people that balance the game are Silvers themselves. What nonsense are you talking ?

SALT SHAKER 28Feb 3, 20171 votes

Riot have stated many times the game is balanced at platinum+ level because low elo players such as yourself make too many mistakes for you to judge whether a champion is strong or not

How about you stop trying to debate over something you know you're wrong about

FioraWillCarryFeb 3, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=SALT SHAKER 28,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=00000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-02-03T09:39:07.686+0000)

Riot have stated many times the game is balanced at platinum+ level because low elo players such as yourself make too many mistakes for you to judge whether a champion is strong or not

How about you stop trying to debate over something you know you're wrong about

Do even understand what I just said ? Did you even read it ?

Truck SanFeb 12, 20171 votes

Sir, this isn't a competition so I don't see why you have to prove that you're better than me. I would also say the game is base around sliver gameplay not platinum because if that was the chance casual players like me would either be more skilled or less skilled. Also, I don't see why you still resort to insults such as "low elo weeb trash" when I haven't insulted you in any way or form and sir if you say one more insult I would am going to send this to rioter and no I'm not saying bits and pieces of this conversion to put me in the lime light but the entire thing so if I get in trouble then it is my fault but if you're the one to get in trouble it would be seem as a human error on your part and not mine. Thank you

JVlasterQuinnFeb 2, 20172 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kiyoshi Neko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-01-31T03:56:24.628+0000)

k. You sir are telling yourself a lie, but i will respect your opinion and I would kindly like it if you don't insult me. [slayer-jinx-catface]

Garen is not broken. He is fair and predictable. Whenever i die to Garen its because i missplayed or was greedy. He is no where close to broken. Hell he even need buff.

Snowman ArcFeb 3, 20171 votes

calls Garen broken is Bronze 4

Should have expected, I assumed you were Bronze 2 rofl

RalanrJan 17, 20174 votes

I don't see them removing the R. That's pretty iconic as well. I could see them turning his W into a cleanse instead of a damage reduction ability. Makes it easier to "Break their ranks".

Critmaster GarenJan 17, 20173 votes

still gonna stand by my opinion, that his passive could use a mini rework.

if the armor shred mechanic was replaced with giving him a couple seconds of passive regeneration after the spin ends (and after hitting a couple of spin ticks on enemy champions as a requirement for it to trigger), it would allow him to stay in fights and take extended trades better than he does now.

PermabannedGarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-01-17T06:13:05.622+0000)

still gonna stand by my opinion, that his passive could use a mini rework.

if the armor shred mechanic was replaced with giving him a couple seconds of passive regeneration after the spin ends (and after hitting a couple of spin ticks on enemy champions as a requirement for it to trigger), it would allow him to stay in fights and take extended trades better than he does now.

I can't really agree friend.

Garen's problem is that he has a very small threat radius, smaller than most or all other juggernauts, yet does much less damage than most of them.

He's already more survivable than the average for his class. He needs some way to do damage. The E buff helped in this regard. He could also use some combat sustain to increase his ability to duel (which would seem to be what his intended strength is).

I honestly think Garen would be best as a juggernaut/skirmisher hybrid, being a juggernaut focused on forcing duels and killing isolated targets with strong sustained damage.

CalabokJan 17, 20171 votes

he's fine. lets buff Brand instead.

Big LincolnJan 17, 20171 votes

nerf brand

douse his flame

CalabokJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-01-17T05:00:23.339+0000)

nerf brand

douse his flame

no way jose

Truck SanJan 17, 20172 votes

At least give brand a longer cooldown and lower the bounce rate of his ult

Big LincolnJan 17, 20171 votes

is the OP better or worse when i put my own ideas down

not sure if they encourage discussion or not

AhristocatsJan 17, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-17T04:41:44.979+0000)

larger rework is almost certainlyT going to happen

Big LincolnJan 17, 20171 votes

wouldn't oppose cerT reworking everyone tbh

PermabannedGarenFeb 1, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f019Uksr,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-01-17T04:41:44.979+0000)

larger rework is almost certainly going to happen somewhere down the road, since he's the biggest one trick pony still in the game (except maybe annie)

there's no way E is going anywhere, it defines him. at best we'll probably see some shitty delay attached to it. I would like the armor shred removed in favor of power elsewhere; unnecessary that he has it imo.

so that leaves his QWR and his passive. what can be done about any of these to make Garen a more modern champion with a reason to pick him? what should he be good at; what time of the game should he be strongest?

Nasus is a bigger one trick pony IMHO.

Nasus does two things well. Kill turrets quickly and duel people. That's it. He is mediocre or bad at everything else.

Anyway, the first thing that should be done is to remove the Villain mechanic so he can get some love to his base stats or steroids that aren't nearly as devastating, but are more reliable.

Big LincolnFeb 1, 20171 votes

I've been racking my head trying to figure out how to work Garens kit. E is not going to change; at most I would see maybe a wind up or something, but I doubt itd have any reduced damage zone like Darius Q. base stats are good but don't solve any of garens inherent flaws

i think we need to hammer out what Garen should actually excel at and then work towards that

also buff nasus

Snowman ArcFeb 3, 20171 votes

Garen is a noob-friendly champion and we need those in the game to introduce new players, or to play something that doesn't need a lot of effort. Garen is fine as he is; easy to play, powerful at what he does, hard to be effective. He has a weak gap closer, only does damage in melee distance, has no form of hard CC, his AoE is short ranged, and his single target damage isn't that big, apart from the ulti. He is very tanky.

That's what Garen is. If he is allowed to get on top of you, then he will do significant work. It's hard to do that though, so any player who knows how to kite / itemize / counterpick against Garen shouldn't have any problem.

If you wanna climb as Garen to high elo, you're gonna have a hard time, because people are just better and just shut down Garen easily. He is free elo in low elo though,most of the time. Since the only thing you have to worry about is decision making, and not mechanics etc, as long as you're not stupid in the game, you can't really fuck up.