Short and sweet, Athene's Unholy Grail should have +100% Base Mana Regen, it is suppose to be bought for the mana regen so make it the mana regen item; this should satisfy most users that need the regen, because I just tried the chalice bell which has the mana font passive with +100% regen and it does its job well (I had an archangel too)
~ Stacona
Knight SoIaire 2 votesshort answer no anbd why no? because mana shouldnt be infinite (and most ppl seems to believe it should)
DarkLarvitar1 votes[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=exggV0N3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-01-12T06:07:31.913+0000)
short answer no anbd why no? because mana shouldnt be infinite (and most ppl seems to believe it should)
yea this aint urf
Stacona2 votesnot infinite, but a dedicated mana regen item should do its job - and Riot wanted to nerf early regen and buff late game regen (they failed to do so, so far) but this is what the goal they wanted to achieve is- 100% base regen would help grail out
Brorelia1 votesnot infinite, but a dedicated mana regen item should do its job - and Riot wanted to nerf early regen and buff late game regen (they failed to do so, so far) but this is what the goal they wanted to achieve is- 100% base regen would help grail out
Well first off it now restores 2% of mossing mana every 5 seconds so you might try building more mana overall.
Stacona2 votesFirst off, if you are building Archangel's you don't need grail on most champions because you have a dedicated mana sustain item already Second off, the passive is still really weak right now it need to go up to at least 2.5% missing mana
Leblancs Boob2 votesI think mana regen is actually balanced as of now. The problem is manaless assassins 
who already destroyed mages before the mana regen nerf. And now you pretty much can't even take Lux mid because if the enemy happens to pick one of these manaless champs you can pretty much just surrender cause you have no chance
Brorelia1 votesI think mana regen is actually balanced as of now. The problem is manaless assassins
I would argue that there is no reason to pick anything super tanky being the problem. Nothing can survive assassins making assassins the top of the food chain.
Leblancs Boob1 votesMy comment was in reference to the mid lane
Stacona1 votesto be blunt assassins need to get nerfed since in solo queue most bans go into assassins so obviously people do not like them and dont want them to be such a dominate force
Stacona1 votesmana regen is balanced then proceeds to claim how dominant manaless champions are.... that means mana sustain items are weak right now, not balanced, but underpowered
Leblancs Boob2 votesNo. I agree that simply buying an Athene's shouldn't give every mage the ability to spam without worrying too much about going OOM. That being said, assassins were already dominant before the change, and with it they are unstoppable. Assassins should've been nerfed along with the change.
OJ1912 votesWell first off it now restores 2% of mossing mana every 5 seconds so you might try building more mana overall.
Sigh and this "logic" is the exact reason why assassins, especially manaless assassins, are ridiculously in favour right now.
yay I can finally function properly in lane without going oom in two rotations even with blue buff
Bitch please
Stacona2 votesmana hungry champions like cass, swain, anivia (post 6) suffer the most- to be fair anivia's ultimate's mana cost should not go up per rank
Brorelia1 votesAlright lets look at season 4.
Ziggs was being literally picked every game for a time when he was not banned.
Why? Because with one single item he literally could stop a lane from being able to ever push. A inhib turret from being taken indefinitely.
Mana is suppose to be a limitation on a champions power. The original Chalice of harmony allowed you to mostly ignore mana issue at the cost of having an item that was basically useless in all other aspects. Athene's being added made it so that mana was no longer a issue which should not be the case. I protested it when it was added and I was glad to see it nerfed.
Kuroi861 votesActually mana is meant to be mostly an early and early/mid game limitation. After a point it really should be a moot topic on most champs.
Brorelia1 votesActually mana is meant to be mostly an early and early/mid game limitation. After a point it really should be a moot topic on most champs.
The fact that Riot made this change to athene's means it should have late game limits in their opinion.
Kuroi862 votesActually it means Athene's wasn't meant to negate the mid game limits. Combo Athene's with any other item that grants mana or mana regen and your problem is solved.
Stacona1 votesgrail is too weak right now - you would need chalice bell which has no ap and 10% less cdr- you cannot even combo it with archangel because you still need morellos base regen with grail- with grail giving 100% regen as well then you have grail which is meant to give the most mana regen giving the most paired with its passives and do not need to decide between morellos and grail giving the most since right now morellos is better but with 100% regen on both items grail be better because of the passives, morellos will just be a cheaper item with grievous wounds
Stacona1 votesWhat Riot wanted to do was buff late game mana regen and nerf early game- they never wanted it nerfed entirely- this is why they did the base regen system so that regen can be weaker early and stronger later - so to be fair grail should be 100% base regen because Riot even said this in the past that they want the item to be bought for the mana regen (stats and passives)
OJ1912 votesAlright lets look at season 4.
Ziggs was being literally picked every game for a time when he was not banned.
Why? Because with one single item he literally could stop a lane from being able to ever push. A inhib turret from being taken indefinitely.
Mana is suppose to be a limitation on a champions power. The original Chalice of harmony allowed you to mostly ignore mana issue at the cost of having an item that was basically useless in all other aspects. Athene's being added made it so that mana was no longer a issue which should not be the case. I protested it when it was added and I was glad to see it nerfed.
Oops I waveclear just as strong and safe as Ziggs without having mana in the first place
Stacona1 votesthe thing is, they made the uber mega minions from baron buff - so there was never a need to nerf mana regen so hard (again riot's intention was to buff mana sustain later on and nerf it earlier on, they just flat out nerfed it, by giving grail more mana regen with the new regen system in place for season 5 would do what Riot originally wanted which is weaker regen early on and stronger regen later on)
Brorelia1 votes
I am not defending zed but just because one assassin is overloaded and too good at just about everything should not be a reason to try and save others from the same kind of issue.
The only assassin that anyone ever seems to bring up as having way to good of wave clear is zed. I don't see leblanc, akali, or anyone else being complained about as having too good of wave clear consistently. It is always mostly about Zed. Riot seems to agree he has it too good right now with his insane wave clear and high assassination potential. So stop using him as an example to defend the idea that it is a good idea to have mana champs become basically not limited by mana with an item.
Dangerous Man1 votes^ zed main
Abyssphere1 votesIt's really annoying that Riot hasn't said much of anything about it aside from Phreak going "lol no mana regen is awesome right now". Why has no attention been paid to mages like Anivia and Lux? :/ Their costs should have been reduced at the very start of the pre-season but Riot hasn't said a word on them.
Stacona1 votesLux doesn't have mana problems though
Brorelia1 votesIt's really annoying that Riot hasn't said much of anything about it aside from Phreak going "lol no mana regen is awesome right now". Why has no attention been paid to mages like Anivia and Lux? :/ Their costs should have been reduced at the very start of the pre-season but Riot hasn't said a word on them.
Lux was playable with higher mana costs and before Athene's was added to the game without buying CoH
If you are having a problem then you likely just are not good at managing mana.
Anivia does fin with a Tear + RoA build.
All this did was make players have to actaully think about mana some instead of endlessly spaming mindlessly
Stacona1 votespost-6 anivia has mana problems - and grail is just nerfed dude, Riot didnt want to nerf mana regen - i sound like a broken record here because how much i have to say this since for some reason people think that riot's goal is to destroy mana regen, what Riot wanted to do was nerf is early on and buff it later on - which is why they brought in base mana regen % - right now grail is nerfed to the point that morellos is better in every way, which grail should be there for the dedicated mana regen item and archangel's for the ap and mana pool
Abyssphere1 votesLux was playable with higher mana costs and before Athene's was added to the game without buying CoH
If you are having a problem then you likely just are not good at managing mana.
Anivia does fin with a Tear + RoA build.
All this did was make players have to actaully think about mana some instead of endlessly spaming mindlessly
Too bad all the energy and resourceless champs don't need to spend time worrying about managing their mana then.
Erockandroll1 votesRiot seems to be under the Impression that Athene's should still be the Primer Mid lane Item in an AP AP match up. With this in mind, I would recommend boosting it's MR. It was nerfed back when it was still crowding out every other Mana Regen item. But it should Probably get some of that MR back unless they want midlane to get dominated by Morrelo's.
Though I would disagree about changing it's % MP value. Athene's should Probably have more value Later in the game than Morrelo's. And allow the people who pick up Morrelo's to have the Early game Mana Advantage. Also the Mana refund effect on Athene's should still make Mages Relevant even in early/mid game.