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Petition to remove Bronze from ranked

The Highest Noon··2 votes·2,902 views

That's it. That's all I want. If you're placed below Silver, you're just not allowed to play ranked. I think it's a much better option than allowing anybody with a working internet connection to be allowed in competitive game modes. People who don't care about the game, don't care about the teamwork and cooperation, don't care about supporting eachother and reaching the win together, just should not be allowed to play with those who do. Though, I doubt Riot would ever take such a drastic measure, that's possibly the only way for there to be a noticeable growth in player quality. And by quality, I don't mean "skills" or wins, but attitude, overall enthusiasm and esteem, positive trends in gameplay like supporting each other and general teamwork, less toxicity in the ranked environment, etc. Good idea? Bad idea? Why?

Edit: Because people assume the worst, if you fail the placements you aren't locked out of ranked for the rest of the season. You just retry placements.

Edit2: I don't actually know how editing is supposed to work. Should I just change the entire post? Basically, it's like this. Bronze placement/Elo would become the "Placement/Qualifier Zone" where if you land in it after your placement games, you're set to repeat the placements because you didn't reach the next level, Silver. (After a specific time passes?) You can repeat those ten games to see if you land in the Silver zone. You only play with those who're unplaced/unranked, to keep things fair, and you all share a specific goal in finding a significant place! If you reach Silver tier, congrats! You don't have to deal with the nonsense commonly referred to as Bronze Hell. I hope this clears up the misunderstanding that "Silver becomes the new Bronze" even though popular opinion is that Silver is already Bronze 2.0, the new system would remove most of the unnecessary struggle that low tier individuals would have to deal with if they do end up in Bronze placement.

This isn't the best solution but it's a step in the right direction, and I'm sure someone more qualified can improve on the concept, and I appreciate the feedback and improvements that some of you guys have been giving. :D We can do this!

95 Comments

Pandemic Punch4 votes

If it wasn't for Bronze, Singed and Nunu support would be the least of our problems.

just OK jungler4 votes

um, if you remove bronze. SILVER WILL BE THE NEW BRONZE, you wont escape bronze, YOU WILL JUST MOVE IT TO A DIFFERENT Name

oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 votes

lol removing bronze wont fix any toxicity at all

this entire idea is just stupid

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:07:05.611+0000)

lol removing bronze wont fix any toxicity at all

this entire idea is just stupid

So removing the tier that is negatively associated with Riot's own ideology in how you play the game won't remove toxicity?

"Teammates perform worse if you harass them after a mistake." Common in Bronze "If there are players harassing you, you can report them in the end of game screen." Common in Bronze "What do you prefer in a teammate: teamwork or individual skill?" Players who value skill over teamwork? Common in Bronze "Who will be the most sportsmanlike player in this game?" Unsportsmanlike gameplay? Common in Bronze "The Tribunal bans players for negative behavior such as verbal harassment." Which is common in Bronze "LeaverBuster automatically suspends you if you frequently leave matchmade games early." Which is common in Bronze "Players who verbally abuse their teammates lose 16% more games." Hence Bronze "Players who curse at their teammates lose 13% more games." Hence Bronze "Players perform better if you give them constructive feedback after a mistake." Which isn't common in Bronze

Do I have to keep going or can you understand for yourself that removing Bronze would prevent the spread of negativity in the game?

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

what is your current rank? and lp?

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:17:24.223+0000)

what is your current rank? and lp?

I don't even know, man. I think I'm top of Bronze 1 now?

Guyy Fieri2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:24:36.767+0000)

I don't even know, man. I think I'm top of Bronze 1 now?

How do you not even know your own rank?!

Around999People3 votes

I was silver last season. Got placed bronze. All hope of ever ranking gone now? Bs.

Pie Cubed2 votes

Then silver becomes bronze, and then we remove Challenger then the game then the company then the world!

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-04-01T19:04:05.182+0000)

Then silver becomes bronze, and then we remove Challenger then the game then the company then the world!

Silver wouldn't become bronze if you can't even place into Silver lol

Pie Cubed1 votes

I'm saying Silver becomes the new bottom, so we remove that. Then Gold is the new bottom, and so on.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T20:36:22.608+0000)

I'm saying Silver becomes the new bottom, so we remove that. Then Gold is the new bottom, and so on.

The "bottom" and the "lowest" aren't synonymous, fam, which is what I thought you were getting at. Removing the lowest tier doesn't automatically make the next tier the lowest. It just removes the placement of the lowest. If you don't place in Silver, you just don't place.

Pie Cubed1 votes

If someone was placed 59th out of 60 competitors they would be second last. If you eliminate the last person, #59 is now last place.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-04-01T22:16:29.321+0000)

If someone was placed 59th out of 60 competitors they would be second last. If you eliminate the last person, #59 is now last place.

This isn't the same situation. There's a difference between "the last position" and "the lowest position".

Pie Cubed1 votes

So the floor in the basement is not the lowest part of the house.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-04-02T02:50:26.011+0000)

So the floor in the basement is not the lowest part of the house.

It is

Pie Cubed1 votes

Take away the basement by filling it up, the bottom of it is now the ground floor. Maybe I should stop using analogies and stuff and just kind of idiotize it.

Bronze is bottom, no bronze mean silver now bottom. Guy say bottom bad so no more silver now gold is bottom. And so on.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000000000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-02T07:08:12.425+0000)

Take away the basement by filling it up, the bottom of it is now the ground floor. Maybe I should stop using analogies and stuff and just kind of idiotize it.

Bronze is bottom, no bronze mean silver now bottom. Guy say bottom bad so no more silver now gold is bottom. And so on.

If you fill up the basement, you still have a basement.

And now your analogy backfires.

If you change the lowest tier into a "placement tier", it's still a tier.

Pie Cubed1 votes

So what's the point of that? You change the name? That's not going to change much. And by your basement logic that could mean you have the right to destroy a house then say you've done nothing wrong but "rename" the house into a bunch of rubble.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pie Cubed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=00000000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-02T18:25:18.442+0000)

So what's the point of that? You change the name? That's not going to change much. And by your basement logic that could mean you have the right to destroy a house then say you've done nothing wrong but "rename" the house into a bunch of rubble.

There's a difference between "destroying" the basement and "filling" the basement, fam. This would actually change a lot, and I kindly point you into the direction of the latest edit of the OP. I hope that clears some things up. I'm adding more to it as people give their suggestions.

GeminiRune2 votes

If you're placed below Silver, you're just not allowed to play ranked

Then how exactly are you ranked? You didn't say anything about having to redo placements or anything. In other words, I can only assume you're one of those prisoners to Bronze. So that would make your point invalid and not allowed to play ranked.

Congratulations! Stop playing ranked. Follow your idea! It might work for you!

Tiddy Twister2 votes

Are you bronze?

If yes: then you are a hypocrite and a part of the problem you are pointing out, and you would therefore be unable to play ranked.

If no: then why do you care about what happens in bronze? It doesn't affect you, so just mind your own business.

TheSnacken2 votes

As someone who, quite frankly, isn't great at League.... I really like this idea. It sates the "ELO Hell" crowd, and if we're talking a 7-14 day Ranked lockout.... I mean, it sounds fine to me.

Is it perfect? Naw. Not at all. But this does seem like the right place to make this discussion happen.

Seriously, though. Despite all the downvotes (who's scared, be honest) this seems like an alright idea. Sure the idea of having to play your placements over and over until you do well is... Who am I kidding, that sounds great. Seriously, it just spurs improvement.

"But won't Silver just become the new Bronze?!?" Nope. The existing placement algorithms already check for things like quality of gameplay. Qualifying for silver isn't as simple as "win 6/10 of your placement matches", and the proof is plastered all over the boards if you don't believe me.

I also don't think this is the only "good" solution. I'm sure there are plenty. I'm just saying, if Riot ended up dropping this in, I wouldn't be super salty about it. Probably a short huff. But I'd say you should be able to ratchet down your attitude and bad compulsions long enough to play at a silver level for ten matches. If you can't do that, you probably don't have what it takes to play ranked.

And I can already hear "so placements are just 10 wasted games, if you don't place?". No, you just get feedback. And the system notes that you did ATTEMPT ranked play, so if you finish your 10 Qualifier matches (because placements doesn't sound right anymore) but don't,make Silver V+, you get your consolation prize (Remember that Bronze Icon from last year?), and your bronze marker on your profile, and move on. Go play some more games, and at the end of your grace period (seven-to-ten days is probably fine) you can try again.

Is this at least a solid basis for discussion?

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

Seriously, though. Despite all the downvotes (who's scared, be honest) this seems like an alright idea. Sure the idea of having to play your placements over and over until you do well is... Who am I kidding, that sounds great. Seriously, it just spurs improvement.

Is this at least a solid basis for discussion?

I like it. And that's honestly the thing. People are looking at this and thinking "oh it's just someone raging about bronze" no, that's not it at all. For as long as people have been looking for a fix for the ranked system, this is the most solid thought that I've seen so far. You don't even have to remove Bronze tier, just rework it or something. You can name that process of repeating qualifiers/placements "Bronze Placement Tier" for all I care. There just needs to be a fix for the quality of that bottom tier of ranked mode. And whether or not this affects me shouldn't matter. If everybody only tried to fix things "because it affects them", there would still be black slavery, Nazi concentration camps, and who knows what else. Ranked, and Bronze specifically, needs to be fixed. And if there are some mistakes in my logic on this, then say so. That's what this public discussion forum is for.

TheSnacken1 votes

Yeah, I wish people would use this boards to discuss more. This seems like a solid idea that would benefit from having discussion, but nobody is bothering reading along it and adding their piece.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, I wish people would use this boards to discuss more. This seems like a solid idea that would benefit from having discussion, but nobody is bothering reading along it and adding their piece.

It is how it is with this game's playerbase. There's this portion of people who aren't affected by the struggles those who are affected have to deal with, and generally don't care.

Shahamut1 votes

"But won't Silver just become the new Bronze?!?" Nope. The existing placement algorithms already check for things like quality of gameplay. Qualifying for silver isn't as simple as "win 6/10 of your placement matches", and the proof is plastered all over the boards if you don't believe me.

Part of the math that this takes into account however is previous placement. You would need to build an entire new Algorythm to qualify people on.

Will Silver become the new bronze? Yes, it absolutely will, because it is the new "lowest tier" of competitive play. The gap in individual skill between bronze and silver is not that huge. So some lucky ex-bronze players will get decent teammates, and terrible opponents until they "qualify" for silver and then they will be stuck there. Same as before.

Or, the other way of looking at it, Placements becomes the new "bronze". Because you are just placing over and over again until you hit silver. If you are stuck in bronze now, you will just be stuck in "placements" later.

There is seriously no logic to this idea at all.

TheSnacken1 votes

I just don't see how this doesn't solve the problem? It doesn't change much, except make a bar exist where there is a hard "No". You must perform this well to play in the ongoing competitive bracket. After that, all bets are off.

Shahamut1 votes

All this does is make placements the new "bronze". If you are stuck in bronze now, you will be stuck in placements instead.

TheSnacken2 votes

That's just it though, you're not "stuck" anywhere. You fail to place. You have to demonstrate a degree of resilience and broader success to gain the right to compete. If you can't do that, you're given a very cleae "you do not possess the necessary skills" and turned away.

Shahamut2 votes

Yes you are, you are stuck in placements, outside of "ranked".

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

Yes you are, you are stuck in placements, outside of "ranked".

Do you know why some people are stuck in Bronze? There are three. (A) They're not playing at a high-enough level to compete, (B) They aren't playing at a high-enough level to carry their teams to victory, or (C) They ARE playing at a high-enough level to compete and carry their team, but are being held back for whatever reason exists at the time.

What I'm suggesting not only allows them to repeat their placements, so none of the above reasons will keep them "stuck" anywhere, but also assists in case any of the above reasons are hindering them.

With this method, more likely than not the only reason they'd be stuck in this "Bronze Placement Period"--I've suddenly decide to call it--is because of themselves. And if they can't achieve success when they are the only ones holding themselves back, maybe they're just not cut out for the most competitive game mode. You may not want to hear that, but some people just aren't.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

I just don't see how this doesn't solve the problem? It doesn't change much, except make a bar exist where there is a hard "No". You must perform this well to play in the ongoing competitive bracket. After that, all bets are off.

You're right, but isn't that how it already is? And this changes a lot, unsure of how people don't see it. A bar already exists that people are struggling to cross, and that's between the Normal and Ranked game modes. The only difference is that Ranked allows you to play...even if you're not ready. Even if you never attempt to be ready, despite how many people are ready. All bets are off the moment you queue up.

SunWukong7772 votes

Dude there are people like that in every elo

Shahamut2 votes

People who don't care about the game, don't care about the teamwork and cooperation, don't care about supporting eachother and reaching the win together,

You will find people like this in all skill levels of this game. People in Bronze are just those who havent figured out the macro or mechanics. I was a bronze player for a while, trying to figure out how to actually get good in the game, then carried my way out as Skarner top lane all the way to silver 3 :P

Last season I ended in Gold 5, and am looking to climb higher this season.

Bronze is a starting point for a lot of players who reach higher levels. What I quoted you saying has nothing to do with what tier they get placed in.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

You will find people like this in all skill levels of this game. People in Bronze are just those who havent figured out the macro or mechanics. I was a bronze player for a while, trying to figure out how to actually get good in the game, then carried my way out as Skarner top lane all the way to silver 3 :P

Last season I ended in Gold 5, and am looking to climb higher this season.

Bronze is a starting point for a lot of players who reach higher levels. What I quoted you saying has nothing to do with what tier they get placed in.

Then what about the people who don't begin ranked with Bronze-level gameplay as a starting point?

BeatzBoyFTW2 votes

There's always room for improvement, even if it's just Bronze to Silver. Having an Internet problem DOES NOT determine your ranking skills at all, even high elos can have that problem too.

The Highest Noon1 votes

{quoted}

There's always room for improvement, even if it's just Bronze to Silver. Having an Internet problem DOES NOT determine your ranking skills at all, even high elos can have that problem too.

That's another issue, but it's not really relevant to the problems faced in low Elo. I know of a lot of people who have the skills to rise higher on the Ranked ladder, but just can't because of where they are right now. I know people don't wanna accept it, but being in Bronze actually hinders a lot who play at a much higher level.

The Ender Cobra1 votes

Ok Just to check If someone doesn't do well enough in placements, they have to live with it for a whole year without an ability to change it? That's what you want? If someone loses one too many games they are stuck to normals until next season? That's fair? Nobody in bronze deserves a second chance?

Edit: Also you are Silver V 0LP you are on the verge of being 'removed from ranked'. Not entirely sure your opinion is valid.

The Highest Noon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-04-01T20:33:19.858+0000)

Ok Just to check If someone doesn't do well enough in placements, they have to live with it for a whole year without an ability to change it? That's what you want? If someone loses one too many games they are stuck to normals until next season? That's fair? Nobody in bronze deserves a second chance?

Edit: Also you are Silver V 0LP you are on the verge of being 'removed from ranked'. Not entirely sure your opinion is valid.

You make it seem like I'm not ok with that. If I or anyone else for that matter are playing so poorly that we end up kicked out of Silver, do we deserve to be in Silver? I guess I should say that, but you just try placements again. No reason to assume the very worst case scenario out of this lol

The Ender Cobra2 votes

So if you fail placements you just go to placements again?

The Highest Noon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:22:45.436+0000)

So if you fail placements you just go to placements again?

A practical response would be "Not immediately", but yes.

The Ender Cobra3 votes

So people who would've been in bronze just keep playing placements until they get into silver by luck and then you're stuck with them anyway. Even after failing placements and getting temporarily removed from ranked.

The Highest Noon2 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=00060000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:27:24.024+0000)

So people who would've been in bronze just keep playing placements until they get into silver by luck and then you're stuck with them anyway. Even after failing placements and getting temporarily removed from ranked.

Another worst case scenario, I see. Think of it this way:

What reason would you have to complain about them if they're actively attempting to be better at the game, both in gameplay and attitude?

The Ender Cobra1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Highest Noon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:29:25.365+0000)

What reason would you have to complain about them if they're actively attempting to be better at the game, both in gameplay and attitude?

Isn't that exact opposite of your point? I know a few people who were placed in bronze and some of them are close to leaving because they are learning, and the rest of them did leave because they learned from their own and their teammates mistakes. They climbed the ladder and escaped. Not everyone in bronze is a salty scrub. Some of them are trying to leave and they need to place somewhere to get a chance to try.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:41:38.455+0000)

Isn't that exact opposite of your point? I know a few people who were placed in bronze and some of them are close to leaving because they are learning, and the rest of them did leave because they learned from their own and their teammates mistakes. They climbed the ladder and escaped. Not everyone in bronze is a salty scrub.

Then what would be the difference if they're just playing their placements repeatedly? Everything you're mentioning could be done the same if they weren't yet placed in a Silver bracket.

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=0006000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T21:41:38.455+0000)

Some of them are trying to leave and they need to place somewhere to get a chance to try.

And that, makes my point for me. People need a change to try and place higher, instead of being stuck inside a bog of playing on average from bottom of B5, 45 games (assuming they win them all and receive 15 points each win). Not only does this reliably give them the chance you say they need, but it also removes the concept of "Elo Hell".

The Ender Cobra1 votes

Point I understand: Placements would be like promos but if you fail you remain unranked and if you win you go to silver/gold/maybe plat Points I don't understand: Would the unranked players only be playing with other unranked players or would they also play with silvers (which would leave the problem unsolved) Also, silver is just a little bit better than how it is in bronze sure there are improvements but dumb things still happen like ragers and people who are toxic and to measure whether someone was good enough to skip and entire class would need to be determined in more than 10 games or else bronze would simply turn into unranked with no major changes.

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=000600000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-01T23:09:44.968+0000)

Point I understand: Placements would be like promos but if you fail you remain unranked and if you win you go to silver/gold/maybe plat Points I don't understand: Would the unranked players only be playing with other unranked players or would they also play with silvers (which would leave the problem unsolved) Also, silver is just a little bit better than how it is in bronze sure there are improvements but dumb things still happen like ragers and people who are toxic and to measure whether someone was good enough to skip and entire class would need to be determined in more than 10 games or else bronze would simply turn into unranked with no major changes.

You can't remove ragers and toxicity from a video game. That much I understand. And thank you for mentioning that. I'm a little uneasy in saying unranked players would only play with other unranked players, because as much as I'd like to agree with that front, if someone is in their placements while playing at a level that would place them with players of a tier, it'd be more productive to put them on teams with players of that tier, wouldn't it? On the other hand, I'd think that playing with people who share your desire to actually achieve a rank would try their hardest with one another, so there's that bit of motivation.

And I agree, silver is just a little bit better, but that little big is a major difference between Bronze-level play and Silver-level play. To highlight that... Bronze is like "I do what I want and you can't stop me", while Silver is more like "I know how to do what I want and you can't stop me." It's a subtle nuance objectively, but a huuuge difference comparatively.

The Ender Cobra2 votes

Ok Placements = Promos to silver/gold/plat failure means you stay in unranked. Unranked players only play with each other and every 10 games riot says 'did you do good enough yet?' and if they didn't they stay unranked until they do good enough and make it to silver/gold/platinum.

Interesting concept, but to be fair concourses of people quit league because riot added plants, removal of bronze would be too much.

Did I get it right?

The Highest Noon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Ender Cobra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eu7EhfhL,comment-id=00060000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-02T01:45:53.252+0000)

Ok Placements = Promos to silver/gold/plat failure means you stay in unranked. Unranked players only play with each other and every 10 games riot says 'did you do good enough yet?' and if they didn't they stay unranked until they do good enough and make it to silver/gold/platinum.

Interesting concept, but to be fair concourses of people quit league because riot added plants, removal of bronze would be too much.

Did I get it right?

People hated plants THAT much? And yeah, that about sums it up. I'm sure there are some specifics necessary that you didn't bother mentioning, but that's the general concept. But having talked with to some people, it seems less about completely removing bronze and instead working it into something that doesn't involved holding back the majority because of the nonsense involving he minority. I'm not gonna pretend to know the numbers of what players in bronze are trolls and who isn't.

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