To anyone that says lux is not a good support

JuiceBoxP·Apr 15, 2019·8 votes·3,586 views

She has a double snare on a low cooldown
She has an AOE shield that is one of the strongest shields in the game when it hits twice
She has an AOE slow on a low cooldown
She can peel very easily, poke and mitigate damage in trades
She can carry
Her ult is just amazing
Q > E > R > AA > E > AA > ?? > profit

Sounds pretty good to me.

P.s, build first item on her, it's freaking broken.

EDIT: Don't tell me you can't carry with lux. https://imgur.com/qP6R9XQ I could give you like a 100 examples.

Throw your downvotes at me kids!

Grabs the downvote shield [slayer-pantheon-popcorn]

60 Comments

Cind3rkickApr 15, 201911 votes

Reasons why she isnt a good supp. 1)shes a mage

2)other supports have more effective cc

3)other support have stronger shields

4)shes a mage

MankeyMadnessApr 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Reasons why she isnt a good supp. 1)shes a mage

2)other supports have more effective cc

3)other support have stronger shields

4)shes a mage

Brand is a mage

Brands CC can't land until level 2 and requires landing two skillshots

No other supports have a shield that beats Prismatic Barrier. It's borderline Ult tier in strength gated by being a skillshot.

Brand, Zyra, Velkoz, Zoe, Veigar, and Galio are all mages.

Lux support is only bad if you build like an ape

OtterlyLostApr 15, 20192 votes

Which most lux supports do. And no one likes brand support either.

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20191 votes

throws his up vote at this comment

VoraciousXApr 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Brand is a mage

Brands CC can't land until level 2 and requires landing two skillshots

Brand only needs one Skillshot. Brand typically E>Qs while he's in your face, then W's while you're stunned.

No other supports have a shield that beats Prismatic Barrier. It's borderline Ult tier in strength gated by being a skillshot.

Karma with 100 AP vs Lux with 100 AP. Karma's E without ult: 220. Lux's shield WITH RETURN: 260. Karma E with 100 AP with ult: 270. Karma's is immediate and doesn't require her allies to cooperate, thus her shield is better than Lux's. In fact Lux's shield is probably one of the weakest as it's her HARDEST TO LAND skillshot.

Brand, Zyra, Velkoz, Zoe, Veigar, and Galio are all mages.

Lux support is only bad if you build like an ape

Lux cannot respond to instant threats as someone else said, and she has low base damage. She won't do much early, and vs all in champs she will likely die. She can work, but you have to play EXTREMELY safe and far back, and cannot actually HELP your ADC against early threats. Most of the time you can just go straight for the Lux and she can't do anything about it unless she hits her Q, but you usually won't go on her unless she uses Q. She's EXTREMELY WEAK to ganks.

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 16, 20191 votes

Don’t forget that besides being instant and overall better as just a shield, most support shields also offer some sort of utility. Karma > movement speed boost Janna > extra AD Lulu > on-hit damage

MankeyMadnessApr 22, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Brand only needs one Skillshot. Brand typically E>Qs while he's in your face, then W's while you're stunned.

Karma with 100 AP vs Lux with 100 AP. Karma's E without ult: 220. Lux's shield WITH RETURN: 260. Karma E with 100 AP with ult: 270. Karma's is immediate and doesn't require her allies to cooperate, thus her shield is better than Lux's. In fact Lux's shield is probably one of the weakest as it's her HARDEST TO LAND skillshot.

Lux cannot respond to instant threats as someone else said, and she has low base damage. She won't do much early, and vs all in champs she will likely die. She can work, but you have to play EXTREMELY safe and far back, and cannot actually HELP your ADC against early threats. Most of the time you can just go straight for the Lux and she can't do anything about it unless she hits her Q, but you usually won't go on her unless she uses Q. She's EXTREMELY WEAK to ganks.

If you let Brand E you in lane AND fail to dodge Q ... something is horribly wrong.

VoraciousXApr 23, 20191 votes

{quoted}

If you let Brand E you in lane AND fail to dodge Q ... something is horribly wrong.

If he Es you in lane he's usually right in front of you. Dodging is kinda hard if it's in your face with no minions to block, especially after he completes Rylai's. Even still, the range that his E has is pretty small, meaning if he E's you, he's already in the range to where his Q will pretty much hit every time unless you flash or he has TERRIBLE aim.

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 15, 20197 votes

-Her only hard cc doesn’t go through minions and is just a worse Morgana binding

-Needs AP to scale, low base damages

-Shield has a big delay. Easy to tell when she’s preparing to all in. Hard for her to instantly respond to a damage threat like other shield supports can.

-Good luck trying to carry with support money as Lux. Lux just gets outclassed by other mage supports who either offer more utility or have higher base damages and can do more with less items (Zyra, Morgana, Brand, Vel’Koz, etc)

Lux support on the enemy team = free

Done25Apr 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

-Her only hard cc doesn’t go through minions and is just a worse Morgana binding

Her Q does in fact hit two targets, and her E can be casted past minions.

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 15, 20192 votes

Still doesn't go through minions. It'll extend past a singular minion if hit, sure. And E isn't hard cc. It's a slow (aka, soft cc). My point stands.

MankeyMadnessApr 15, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Still doesn't go through minions. It'll extend past a singular minion if hit, sure. And E isn't hard cc. It's a slow (aka, soft cc). My point stands.

Brand CC cant go through minions either

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 15, 20192 votes

I didn't say it did. Read the entirety of my argument before trying to counter. :) I said,

"Lux just gets outclassed by other mage supports who either offer more utility or have higher base damages and can do more with less items (Zyra, Morgana, Brand, Vel’Koz, etc)"

Brand is pretty garbage atm too, but I'd still say he's a better support than Lux.

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20191 votes

Brand is pretty meta right now. He is borderline broken.

He is not more of a support than lux tho. If anything he is far less.

Not having any reliable cc, pretty much makes you a bad support - to your words

Brand prevails because his damage is r%%%%%ed.

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 15, 20192 votes

Brand has a sub 50% winrate, and a 2.6% pick rate. He's not broken at all. Unless you just sit still in lane and let him land every skillshot, I guess.

LetMeAfkPlssApr 15, 20192 votes

bruh morgana bind doesn't go through minions either what's your point

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20192 votes

Her q goes through an enemy and hits another... just saying.

I can give you 10 other examples of support cc that does not go through minions, namely hooks, brand q, morg q, braum q etc etc.

Lux's base damage is actually AMAZING. She does tons of damage with barely any AP.

Her shield is not hard to use promptly and doesn't have a big delay. Just because not everyone has the required skill to use it correctly doesn't mean it is bad.

I've already carries with her tens of times, your argument is quite invalid. She is jot outclassed by zyra, definitely not by velkoz. Heck, velkoz is rarely ever played support. Brand is just broken op And morgana is arguably the best support in the game thanks to her black shield, so there is no comparison there.

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 15, 20195 votes

Yeah, but unless you're aiming it through literally one minion it'll still get caught on the wave. What's your point here, exactly?

And yeah, I didn't say all support CC needs to go through minions, but Lux's is so bad compared to all of the other champions you just named. Morgana Q roots for way longer and has a larger hit box. Brand's is actually a stun, not just a root. Braum Q is a slow that applies a stun after the passive is proc'd. Thresh Q is also a stun that let's Thresh fly to the target and sets up for the rest of his CC. Blitzcrank Q completely displaces an Enemy by dragging them to you and sets them up to be knocked up by E.

See what I'm saying?

Her shield isn't hard to use, no. I'm diamond. Played a fair amount of Lux (I personally think she's a boring champion but she's easy to play and does a good amount of damage when you play her as a mid laner) and I've seen people try to play Lux support. The delay is long enough that in an all-in engage you can probably kill either her or her ADC before it bounces back.

Just because you can carry with her in low elo doesn't make it a good pick everywhere. I could hardstomp silver players playing Soraka ADC, doesn't make it good. So your argument is quite invalid.

I see far more Vel'koz supports than Lux supports, and they usually perform much better. Brand is bad right now, but is still more of a viable support pick.

JuiceBoxPApr 16, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, but unless you're aiming it through literally one minion it'll still get caught on the wave. What's your point here, exactly?

Yeah, what's so hard in aiming her q past one minion or heck, past no minions?

You're nullifying lux's q for not going though minions but somehow justifying other supports for not going through minions for invalid reasons.

but Lux's is so bad compared to all of the other champions you just named.

How is it bad exactly? It's a 2 second root.

Morgana Q roots for way longer and has a larger hit box.

It does not have a larger hit box, It moves slower, It roots 1 second more at max level It roots 1 enemy

Why are comparing again? Just because morgana's q is different doesn't mean lux's root is not viable as a 2 second root

Brand's is actually a stun, not just a root.

Good for you

Thresh Q is also a stun that let's Thresh fly to the target and sets up for the rest of his CC. Blitzcrank Q completely displaces an Enemy by dragging them to you and sets them up to be knocked up by E.

Thanks for teaching me about thresh and blitz

See what I'm saying here?

Yeah i can see you are really biased towards hating lux you literally make up reasons and forcefully try to hate her for really no good reason.

All your arguments are invalid. Her cc is just fine, her damage is just fine, her shield is just fine.

You voiced your opinion, And your opinion is extremely biased with hatred.

I am done talking to you, have a nice life

TheUrbanKitsuneApr 16, 20192 votes

Good job ignoring the entirety of my other points xD

Yes, I hate Lux support, because it’s bad. I voiced my opinion just like you voiced yours, except you refused to acknowledge the large important parts of mine. Her cc is meh. Her damage is bad. Her shield is meh at best and provides no oher benefit other than being a shield.

You say my arguments are invalid only because you for some reason think Lux is a good support and are unwilling to ackowledge the plethora of people who say otherwise.

Dont post a thread about something YOU KNOW is a controversial opinion if you arent prepared for people to give it to you straight and downvote it

I wish the best for any ADC who gets stuck with a lux support, ciao.

QuephaApr 15, 20194 votes

You can do this to justify any champion in any position.

boricCentaur1Apr 15, 20193 votes

You see the main problem I have with lux supports is they have no clue how to play or build lux as a support and just end up playing and building like there in mid when they play and build differently. Like idk how they think item 3285 fucking helps them as a support and there only fucking reason is that lux builds it.

I have no problems with lux as a support but the players in my games just can't do it.

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20193 votes

item 3174 first item is the shit man.

Funny story, i once had a master 4 adc, he said i was the first lux he saw that actually built this item. it's broken AF.

MoonscourgeApr 15, 20193 votes

High mana costs, her Q does NOT have a short CD, it's pretty average to long even. Her ult sucks. All skillshot based, low damage.

Sebastit7dApr 16, 20192 votes

her Q does NOT have a short CD

10 sec CD at all ranks suddenly is not a short CD. okay

DontTouchMyBallApr 15, 20192 votes

Good points, Ive played her support a lot specially before, she is a very decent pick and my allies use to be surprised how well I perform with her in the support role. She is a very underrated support pick.

OtterlyLostApr 15, 20191 votes

Sure, if a lux actually built full support and actually supported, she might be a good support. But she doesnt. And no, building an athlete's first does not constitute being a "support" when you follow it up with ludens, morellos, death cap.

No, full support is athlete's, redemption, ardent, maybe a locket or a Zeke's. If theres already a mage mid and a carry top and a carry bot and a carry in the jungle, you dont need a carry support. You need a utility support who is going to keep at least one of those carries alive without needing a support themselves.

MankeyMadnessApr 15, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Sure, if a lux actually built full support and actually supported, she might be a good support. But she doesnt. And no, building an athlete's first does not constitute being a "support" when you follow it up with ludens, morellos, death cap.

No, full support is athlete's, redemption, ardent, maybe a locket or a Zeke's. If theres already a mage mid and a carry top and a carry bot and a carry in the jungle, you dont need a carry support. You need a utility support who is going to keep at least one of those carries alive without needing a support themselves.

Athenes IS a Rabadons, sadly players dont realize this. item 3107 item 3174 item 3504 item 3092 item 2065 The amount of AP this gives for a ... 9k? Build is amazing.

OtterlyLostApr 15, 20191 votes

I still dont want a lux. Lux is just the support that people pick when they're autofilled and they arent actually interested in being a support.

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20192 votes

I am a main support with 160k as lux support. and i've seen a couple dozen like me.

So, Pretty sure not everyone who pick lux support are autofilled.

Blame the player, not the champion.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

I'll blame both, thanks. Lux is not an appropriate support; there are far better options and options I would prefer to have over Lux. Supports that require less gold to be effective at their job and who aren't actually mages that are masquerading as a support.

JuiceBoxPApr 16, 20191 votes

Lol, you are funny man. give me actual arguments beside throwing unproven facts around. you can't just say she is not an appropriate support without giving examples and showing some actual facts. "there are far better options" doesn't count as a fact as long as you haven't proven it.

i made my claim : this list shows what makes her a good support.

She has a double snare on a low cooldown

She has an AOE shield that is one of the strongest shields in the game when it hits twice
She has an AOE slow on a low cooldown
She can peel very easily, poke and mitigate damage in trades
She can carry
Her ult is just amazing
Q > E > R > AA > E > AA > ?? > profit

Now it's your turn to bring some actual counter arguments into the table.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

You want examples of better supports? Okay. Fine.

Nami.

Heal that can hit two allies and an enemy for damage and peel.
A Bubble that effectively can stun at least 3 people. Also is not blocked by minions.
An ult that can knock up, slow, and zone and entire team fight and can affectively turn the entire tide of battle.
An AA enchancer that gives a massive amount of bonus magic damage on hit and a slow
All of her spells, every single one, give her allies a MS buff to allow them to kite or engage better.
Since she's a real support, the amount of efficiency her utility spells gain off of support items like Athene's, Redemption, and Ardent is a million times better than whatever Lux's shield can give; all of these items can affectively allow her to heal someone for 500 health at least and it can't miss.
She can carry without needing massive amounts of gold or even experience through the sheer amount of utility that she provides; I have turned games as Nami support and I didn't have AP to do it.
She can poke, peel, bully, engage, disengage, flank, and a variety of other things far better than Lux can
Her Heal is the CD as Lux's snare and a lower CD than Lux's shield. Her bubble gets to be a lower CD than Lux's snare.
Her higher bases and better synergy with literally all support items, means she requires far less gold than Lux to be effective.

Sona.

Extremely low CDs.
Better, lower mana cost, and lower CD point and click poke that is less prone to taking minions or pushing the wave.
A heal that scales into the game impressively well and synergizes absurdly well with Athene's; seriously, Sona is the poster child for champs that go well with Athene's.
Said heal also can shield her all allies in her radius.
A MS buff that, again, affects all allies in its radius.
Proper power cord juggling can give her either a slow, a damage reducer, or a huge burst of damage.
An ult that can AOE stun an entire team or at the very least zone most of them.
One of the best scaling supports in the game; she scales into the late game ridiculously well.
Capable of out putting decent damage on a lower budget than Lux.
Cannot miss her heal/shield/buffs.

I could go on and on and on as there are a multiple number of supports who are flatly better at being a support than Lux.

JuiceBoxPApr 16, 20191 votes

I didn't ask for a list of capabilities of nami and sona, i asked for arguments for why lux's kit is not good. I also didn't ask who's a better support.

I simply asked for you to point me to problems with her kit that makes her bad. We are talking about lux, not nami and sona.

I listed the upsides of her kit, now your turn to list the downsides.

Also, you keep throwing irrelevant facts around.

I have turned games as Nami support and I didn't have AP to do it.

Namely this one

he amount of efficiency her utility spells gain off of support items like Athene's, Redemption, and Ardent is a million times better than whatever Lux's shield can give; all of these items can affectively allow her to heal someone for 500 health at least and it can't miss.

Lux is not an enchanter... She doesn't build ardent and redemption because she doesn't have healing abilities... why would she use it..

Read what i wrote on the other post and reply.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20192 votes

Nami and Sona point out the issues with Lux Support glaringly.

She doesn't support. That is her problem.

Long CD's(10 seconds is a long CD when its your only form of peel, her shield is maxed last so is at a 14 second CD the majority of the game, and her E only gets down to 8 seconds and is spammable because its intended for wave clearing.)

Unreliable peel(snare blocked by minions, shield can be straight up missed/dodged out of by accident, E can be over shot and missed and doesn't actually slow by that much; 45% at max rank compared to someone like Braum(70%), Sona(40% at ALL LEVELS and scales with her AP), Nami(Ult starts with a base 50% slow and her E slow is small but also scales with her AP), and many others, this is honestly trash)

Low Base Damage and more scaling means that she does less damage than many of these real supports do due to the lack of AP and the lack of actual gold income

No abilities by which to actually assist the carry; no enchancing abilities or bonus damage or meaningful ways of protecting her carry.

Her primary poking capability actively pushes the wave and takes CS from the ADC, stealing the gold from the carry and screwing up any wave manipulation that the ADC was trying to have. This is an issue that many mage "supports" have as they are intended for this magical thing called a Solo Lane.

Her ult isn't helpful to a teamfight; its just a big, easily dodged AOE nuke that, once burned, just means that the enemy team can just carry on running your team down. It doesn't disengage, doesn't engage, it can't be used to peel or assist allies. its literally just damage and that's it.

Low mobility means that if she gets engaged on or fucks up her combo, oops, now she's about as useful as a cannon minion; she is a champion that needs peel. She does not peel.

If behind, she's fairly useless as her CC is, again, unreliable and her damage will be atrocious because support income is bar none the lowest in the game. She won't have the levels to have even higher base damage and she won't have the gold to have much needed AP items. And she won't be useful to her ADC or team either as she can't peel as affectively as a true support actually could.

She is squishy and leaves a much needed gap in the team as her skillshot shield can't even necessarily provide pseudo tankiness like other, more reliable supports(Nami's heal can negate burst if timed well, Janna's shield, Lulu's shield, Taric's shield, heal, ult and bonus Armor... All infinitely more reliable and easier to apply than her shield.)

While we're on the topic, the strength of her shield is grossly over estimated. On first cast, the only one that you're likely to actually hit reliably, it only gets up to 110; Lulu's gets to 210 and is guaranteed. Janna's gets up to 210, is guaranteed, and gives 40 AD. The initial shield is tiny and the second, larger part is only guaranteed on Lux herself; not her carry or her entire team. At best, she will land the first part on one person and the return part on some other part of her team and even then, its only 10 more than the shields provided by other supports who, again, are more reliable.

RavenhaleApr 15, 20191 votes

Eh, Lux is more of my pick when I see an all AD comp and we might need the option of an AP nuke. But yea, if there is an AP mid or AP jungle, I usually can't justify a Lux pick over Morgana or Sona/Nami. To be honest, most of the time I just run Leona because nobody on my team hovered or picked a tank.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

Even then, there are ADCs who can make up more affectively for the lack of AP than picking a gold hungry midlane mage. Kog'maw, Kai'sa, Varus all do an astounding amount of mage damage. Corki could even work if you wanted to troll.

There's no good reason in my mind to pick someone like Lux as a support. I wish Riot would grossly gut mage base damages and up their ratios so that we can finally be done with midlane mage "supports."

RavenhaleApr 16, 20191 votes

Well, we are going with the whole lack of AP in team comp, so that would include a lack of Kai'sa, etc.

And I agree, there isn't. There are reasons, but not very good ones. Like... my team needs AP damage ... and then I end up playing her as a mediocre utility mage anyways which meant I should have just ran Karma. Or Morgana is banned and I don't want to be reported for feeding with Zyra. The fact is that Lux is not the best option for any of the reasons you might pick her to support and there are even enchanters that can "jack of all trades" better than her. The only reason to pick her is not owning the better options, or lacking experience with those options.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

Pretty much. There are far more superior options. She is not really a "good" support.

RavenhaleApr 16, 20191 votes

I got level 5 with Orianna support. It can be done, but not something I would ever recommend (seriously just run Janna, Lulu or Karma).

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

Arguably anything can "support" but most of the time, other champs are definitely better at being supports. I bet trying to Orianna support was kind of torturous though.

RavenhaleApr 16, 20191 votes

I was bored with Janna and Lulu and thought it would be a challenge. And it is... but so not worth it.

JuiceBoxPApr 15, 20191 votes

Pretty much buying a support item and playing beside your adc at bot lane and peeling for your team and granting vision counts as being a support. How you do it? It depends.

By all means building athene's into ludens or zhonya or just building ap counts as being a support because i got my support item and i got my oracle lens and that's pretty much what makes a support at its core - a support item and oracle lens. Someone who doesn't build a support item is not a support.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20193 votes

There's so much more to being a support than having a support item and warding. .-. And if you honestly, if you believe that "peeling" just includes blowing up the enemy team then you're a pretty terrible support.

There are a multitude of items available intended to help buff and assist your allies. A support is a champion specifically intended to assist with kills, not take them. They are intended to support the carry by being a strong base with items such as athene's, Zeke's, Locket, etc. They carry by proxy that their items and kits keep the actual carry from dying and increase their damage.

Building full AP and looking for kills and your selfish gains is not being a support. Its being an under fed, under farmed carry and is taking gold and resources out of your team. Its denying your team much needed support because you aren't buffing any of them.

Lux is not a support unless she's building nothing but support items. Otherwise, she's just someone who doesn't actually want to support playing a mage because "they wanna carry, hurr durr."

JuiceBoxPApr 16, 20191 votes

See, your base assumption is that the support's role is to "Protect the carry"... no.. i disagree. And no, it doesn't mean i am a bad support.

While there are supports whose kits are really good at doing that... aka... enchanters. there are several other support types, as i see them.

1)Enchanters - nami, janna, karma, lulu, sona, soraka, taric 2)engagers - thresh, blitzcrank, alistar, braum, leona , pyke, nautilus, rakan 3)Enchanter-engager hybrid / APC supports(The ones you dislike) - lux, morgana, zyra, brand, zilean

typically, enchanters will have the most peel, low-medium damage, low-medium CC engagers have the most cc, medium - high peel, low-medium damage. APC supports will have the most Damage, low-medium amounts peel and medium-high CC.

with several exclusions, ofc...(namely morgana whose basically a jack of all trades)

Lux can mitigate tons of damage with her w. it gives one of the biggest shields in the game when hitting twice. basically, throw a w at your team when you engage and you give your team an insane shield that can win the teamfight alone. She can stop enemies in their tracks with q, and slow them with e when chasing your carry.

I don't know how much more peel do you need.

Again, what support is intended to do is not written in stone. The most basic need from a support is vision. beyond that every champion has his own ways.

Every type of support can bring his own things into the team fight. If you ask me, lux does a pretty damn good job at it.

As i mentioned before, her shield is humongous, and that extra damage can really be the determining factor for winning the team fight.

OtterlyLostApr 16, 20191 votes

Her shield is humongous... if you land it. Guess what? You can get nearly the same sized shield more reliably by playing Janna, Lulu, or Taric. This alone makes her a bad, unreliable support.

I'm not even going to talk to you about what entails a support as you clearly have no clue and are deluded.

RavenhaleApr 15, 20191 votes

I haven't tried Athene's on her. It would probably be good if people weren't actively dodging the baton.

Normally I run Twin Shadows and Shurelya's. It's nice to have a guaranteed slow from Shadows and Shurelya's is just a fun ms item in general. I find both useful to have when it comes to warding.

hrooza dota Apr 16, 20191 votes

https://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/2160677682/228953848?tab=overview

this is how you support lux

JuiceBoxPApr 16, 20191 votes

Lols! Nice match