Fix your broken game, Riot

JuiceBoxP·Mar 16, 2019·94 votes·21,855 views

"Learn to side step"

https://youtu.be/_PSOFzVu-ig https://imgur.com/XhOnjST https://imgur.com/tSfZBVP

https://youtu.be/GZEqBwQOpnE https://imgur.com/XoXnDkd

this all happened in one game there were more occasions on said game... i just didn't find them

https://youtu.be/4F88hGB4XNc https://imgur.com/920NyVO

https://youtu.be/9cfskBD4hbI https://imgur.com/l0jBVd7

[zombie-brand-facepalm]

edit: added 2 more

Special thanks to the trolls that took the time and downvoted every single comment i made, i appreciate the effort and dedication <3

120 Comments

Warwick MainMar 16, 201936 votes

Try playing a champion with numerous bugs that have been present for more than a year. Even worse Riot is aware of them. 3 out of 4 of Warwicks abilities have some serious bugs:

q: Dmg not going off when vision lost but still using mana and going on cd, not being able to use the dash through units, dmg going off delayed as well as the heal causing you to straight up die and still do q dmg after death. w: pathing issues where you're in the blood trail, not in combat but still losing the bonus movespeed R: Dash cancels mid flight if enemies OR ALLIES summoner 4 in it's radius. This occurs 100% of the time. I've personally ulted THROUGH players who were feared happens rarely but still.

Not as bad as some champions whose numerous bugs have become a meme Mordekaiser but still utterly ridiculous that bugs are permitted to last so long.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20193 votes

i feel your pain man

DearPearMar 16, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warwick Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj3AeyuJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-16T16:51:31.878+0000)

Try playing a champion with numerous bugs that have been present for more than a year. Even worse Riot is aware of them. 3 out of 4 of Warwicks abilities have some serious bugs:

q: Dmg not going off when vision lost but still using mana and going on cd, not being able to use the dash through units, dmg going off delayed as well as the heal causing you to straight up die and still do q dmg after death. w: pathing issues where you're in the blood trail, not in combat but still losing the bonus movespeed R: Dash cancels mid flight if enemies OR ALLIES in it's radius. This occurs 100% of the time. I've personally ulted THROUGH players who were feared happens rarely but still.

Not as bad as some champions whose numerous bugs have become a meme but still utterly ridiculous that bugs are permitted to last so long.

The funniest WW bug is the ability to cancel Zoe's sleep when using your Q right before the effect.

wolviusMar 16, 20196 votes

{quoted}

The funniest WW bug is the ability to cancel Zoe's sleep when using your Q right before the effect.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oq7tA-yfLTw

Edit:

{quoted}

I don't think that's a bug as I'm pretty sure his Q makes you unstoppable for a split second

The wombo combo

ninjaroxasMar 16, 20196 votes

I don't think that's a bug as I'm pretty sure his Q makes you unstoppable for a split second

14daysuspensionkMar 16, 201928 votes

Meanwhile you can see Nidalee javelin do the opposite anytime of the day (goes fucking straight through targets often).

TaraghulMar 16, 201916 votes

I remember trying to kill scuttle with them in an urf game a few weeks ago and this happened to me like 3 times in a row

14daysuspensionkMar 16, 20194 votes

{quoted}

I remember trying to kill scuttle with them in an urf game a few weeks ago and this happened to me like 3 times in a row

Once when this bug happened to me, it luckily ended up killing someone behind my target lmao.

Frog goes mooMar 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile you can see Nidalee javelin do the opposite anytime of the day (goes fucking straight through targets often).

Yeah what's up with that? I don't play nidalee but everytime I go against her either A) She hit me from 5million feet away and kills me. Or B) she hits me from 5 million feet away but instead it goes through me and I lose no hp.

JamareeMar 16, 201915 votes

I think that the game works on hit and hurt boxes more then actual models so that is why.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 201914 votes

of course it uses hit boxes. its hitboxes are quite clearly broken.

Starcraft243verMar 16, 20192 votes

The models are broken, the hitboxes are fine

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 201925 votes

the hitbox should match the model, not the other way around.

DrCyanideMar 16, 201913 votes

Models change how much space they take up as they move around. So unless you think there should be some poses which are harder to hit than others, the hitbox will never match the model.

AckelopeMar 16, 20198 votes

now I can finally dodge skillshots with Lee Sin's dance!

EedatMar 16, 20195 votes

HELL NO. Models should match the hitbox. Imagine if they shrunk the hitbox to match that tiny character model in your pictures. Changing hitbox sizes is an absolutely MASSIVE buff or nerf. They shouldn't just radomly start handing out massive buffs because they feel like Caitlyn sells more skins as a tiny dainty girl. Game balance should always take priority over simple aesthetics.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20196 votes

alright mate, i'm fucking fine with playing chubby caitlyn as long as what i see is what i get! right now it's wonky as fuck!

infact, i don't need to see models, give me a fucking square that represents my champion and the correct hit box and i'll play with it just fine.

and the biggest problem right now is inconsistencies. on a different day, none of those would hit me.

CherysseMar 17, 20193 votes

they could just add a hitbox indicator for your character in the visualization options.

Xela SyabMar 16, 201912 votes

There's a weird coding in animations and actions and it seems like some abilities take priority over others, I once ulted a Tristana casting her rocket jump and she continued to jump while in stasis glowing gold and everything. It's the same if you hook Ez with Blitzcrank, he can still cast his e mid hook. This is the same with Amumu and Leona, his q and her e latches on the the previous walking animation of where champions were and it still hit detects.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20195 votes

which by it self, is just not acceptable...

HeavenlyThunderMar 16, 201914 votes

These are actually intended and how they should stay. You should learn them and take advantage if these features, they are very useful. They don't START casting spells while being pulled, they FINISH casting them during it. Channeling can be interrupted, but casting can not. Also, dashes and jump can only be cancelled by displacing CC and knock up.

Spaceman71Mar 16, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xela Syab,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj3AeyuJ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-16T17:22:48.465+0000)

There's a weird coding in animations and actions and it seems like some abilities take priority over others, I once ulted a Tristana casting her rocket jump and she continued to jump while in stasis glowing gold and everything. It's the same if you hook Ez with Blitzcrank, he can still cast his e mid hook. This is the same with Amumu and Leona, his q and her e latches on the the previous walking animation of where champions were and it still hit detects.

The ezreal and tristana coding is entirely intentional. Once the animation reaches a certain point, it can't be interrupted by cc. Amumu and Leona is probably just wack hitboxes.

SpitemasterMar 16, 20192 votes

For both Leona and Amumu, it's that's they dash when the skillshot finishes. To interrupt their dashes you have to hit them while they're dashing.

Hypochondria9Mar 16, 201912 votes

Thresh has a lollipop hitbox.

Fondling GemsMar 16, 20196 votes

Actually those are all pretty reasonable hits; if you look closely every time you were hit Cait's current animation was making her lean away from the center of her hitbox, which doesn't actually change the hitbox location.

https://i.imgur.com/920NyVO.png[/img]

For example in this one you can clearly see where your last auto attack originated from. Cait leans back very far in her headshot animation, and you then input a turn command which swiveled your model around so that it looked like you were leaning very far away from where you had been standing when you hadn't actually moved.

Also worth noting that Pool Party slims down a model that was already pretty thin, but that doesn't change your hitbox size at all.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20192 votes

man how can even say that? this picture is after the model leaned back... i mean she's standing straight. the hook is pretty much far from me. it's past the point of margin error. this just straight up didn't hit me nor what it even in range.

Fondling GemsMar 16, 20197 votes

{quoted}

man how can even say that? this picture is after the model leaned back... i mean she's standing straight. the hook is pretty much far from me. it's past the point of margin error. this just straight up didn't hit me nor what it even in range.

Because what it really looks like is this: https://i.imgur.com/hlTXk0X.png[/img]

You can very clearly see the center of her model that her auto attack originated from. If you watch Cait during her headshots she leans very far back.

In fact if you rewatch the same video on .25 times speed you can even see the only part of her animation she got off was the step she takes as part of the recoil of her headshot; placing her even further from the center of her model.

Since League has no turn times you were able to input a new movement command which made Cait visually swivel around completely; but again didn't move her.

AeroWaffleMar 16, 20195 votes

In the first video, the champion model is leaning forward while running. This does not mean the hitbox should be leaning forward as well. The screenshot you posted was not the closest that the blades came to your shadow, it practically was touching it as it first returned.

The thresh example is more obvious and easier to spot. Look at the shadows of the two things (champion and the hook). Just because the character model is higher in elevation and doing some sort of yoga pose doesn't mean that the hitbox is also going to float in the air and distort. It's going to move, yes, but it's all in a 2d environment and static in shape. Once those two hitboxes collide, threshes hook model snaps to the center of the enemy champion model for aesthetic purposes. Blitz hook is the same way.

The animation of the model doesn't have a bearing on what is actually happening for collision or ability interactions. Heck, the champion suffering in all of those videos has their own way of abusing that themselves. Caitlyn's E->Q combo wouldn't fire from the void if things were based off the model location instead of where she started the ability.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

In the first video, the champion model is leaning forward while running. This does not mean the hitbox should be leaning forward as well. The screenshot you posted was not the closest that the blades came to your shadow, it practically was touching it as it first returned.

what are you even talking about https://imgur.com/tSfZBVP

leaning forward? here. clearler screenshot. standing still, the axes passed me and it killed me after passing me.

AeroWaffleMar 16, 20193 votes

Here is the moment that I'm referring to.

https://imgur.com/L2N9ufn

I can certainly see where hitboxes would be colliding under such circumstance.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20192 votes

this was the first pass of course it hit. on the second pass, when the axes were changing directions, as you can see the axes haven't changed direction yet in your snipe, it shouldn't have hit there.

AeroWaffleMar 16, 20193 votes

No it wasn't. You can see the tracks from the first phase, they are the deep scars to the right of the incoming blades otw back. If it were the first pass the scars would be directly behind the blades and not at an angle. The blades do not turn on the first pass.

Royal CloacaMar 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Here is the moment that I'm referring to.

https://imgur.com/L2N9ufn

I can certainly see where hitboxes would be colliding under such circumstance.

What about now? It clearly missed and the game decided she needs to die to progress forward. https://i.imgur.com/M9fe2mz.jpg

wolviusMar 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Royal Cloaca,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj3AeyuJ,comment-id=0008000100000002,timestamp=2019-03-17T22:32:52.800+0000)

What about now? It clearly missed and the game decided she needs to die to progress forward. https://i.imgur.com/M9fe2mz.jpg

If you watch the video there is a blue caster minion auto that hasnt connected until after draven ult hit, since the video doesn't show cait health after initial chainsaw hit the caster could have killed her and draven would get kill credit.

wolviusMar 16, 20195 votes

I'll just quote a comment from previous threads on this issue that explain why this happens.

{quoted}

There's another example working against you in your Deadly Flourish example that you didn't replicate in your Curtain Call example: "Low Ground to High Ground"

As far as the mechanics of the game are concerned, League of Legends is a 2D game. The graphics portray it as a 3D game. This creates some visual dependencies - particularly in the case of firing skillshots from low ground (the River) to high ground (the lane or the jungle around the river). Skillshot graphics don't curve upwards and continue their path when they're fired out of the river, they continue straight in the direction they had been fired. As a result, the visual and the hit box are desynced every time a spell is fired from river to land (or vice versa).

Fire Curtain Call from the River and you'll likely see similar problems with the hitbox.

####from this thread https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/n4V0dLys-artrequires-hitboxes-to-be-fixed

Your saying how the hook didn't hit cait's model, as far as the game is concerned cait is a 2D circle on the ground that if intersects with thresh Q will be CC'd and then chain visually snap to a set position on the champ model, which is not the champs hitbox.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20195 votes

okay, then how am i supposed to be able to dodge hooks reliably when my model is horrifically misleading and doesn't match the hitbox, not even close? how am i supposed to know that my champion is really inside the hitbox of the hook when it's visually quite clearly outside of it?

like, am i supposed to guess whether it will hit me or not every time? it is inconsistent.

wolviusMar 16, 20193 votes

{quoted}

okay, then how am i supposed to be able to dodge hooks reliably when my model is horrifically misleading and doesn't match the hitbox, not even close? how am i supposed to know that my champion is really inside the hitbox of the hook when it's visually quite clearly outside of it?

like, am i supposed to guess whether it will hit me or not every time? it is inconsistent.

That's the problem with a system that functions as a 2D but made to look like 3D, it's not ideal but unlike a simple bug it cant be fixed by changing a fix lines it needs large scale changes to the system. ....but sadly riots a small indie company.

Also doesn't help that orientation, anivia and things like river exist to complicate things more.

Edit: also knockups, it's hard to hit a jumping yordle girl.

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20195 votes

man don't even get me started on the river. the amount of lux ults i didn't hit even though the ult animation was like covering up the model of champion.

but sadly riots a small indie company.

xD multi-billion dollar company... yeah... they could get it sorted if they really wanted.

wolviusMar 16, 20192 votes

{quoted}

man don't even get me started on the river. the amount of lux ults i didn't hit even though the ult animation was like covering up the model of champion.

xD multi-billion dollar company... yeah... they could get it sorted if they really wanted.

Well we are the same boat as morde then, requisat in spaghetti. https://youtu.be/9ucNmbm65w4?t=220

The amount of lux Q and ult that should've hit but didn't and vice versa is incredible. (Lux Q seem have hit bias, ult seems have miss bias from my experience as the target)

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20193 votes

Those are mordekaiser's features, not bugs [slayer-jinx-wink]

Dangerous ManMar 17, 20195 votes

That thread seems unrelated. Talking about vertical changes on a 2D plane, not hitboxes or anything. EG abilities going up the stairs of base or out of river.

And your response doesn't fully explain it.

Hooks and abilities that extend from a character while remaining attached to the champion throwing (eg, amumu q, sylas e, naut q, tahm q) actually seek out the nearest target at max range. They will create a small circle and attach to it. It's basically 2D aim assist.

Here is a picture I drew in 60 seconds showing what a Tahm Q hitbox actually looks like (same applies to other abilities): https://i.gyazo.com/82d6acc3d7e734da03d669b33fd9b69a.png

The arrows represent where the detection will start to seek out the priority target. It's slightly exaggerated because the picture I took from google was a tad small and hard to draw on.

Edit: I'm not actually sure it applies to Tahm Q, but 100% applies to Thresh Q and Blitz Q I know for a fact.

Vandiril made a video on it, I just can't find it.

wolviusMar 17, 20192 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pi Xel Moloto V,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Aj3AeyuJ,comment-id=00130001,timestamp=2019-03-17T05:16:13.786+0000)

That thread seems unrelated. Talking about vertical changes on a 2D plane, not hitboxes or anything. EG abilities going up the stairs of base or out of river.

And your response doesn't fully explain it.

Hooks and abilities that extend from a character while remaining attached to the champion throwing (eg, amumu q, sylas e, naut q, tahm q) actually seek out the nearest target at max range. They will create a small circle and attach to it. It's basically 2D aim assist.

Here is a picture I drew in 60 seconds showing what a Tahm Q hitbox actually looks like (same applies to other abilities): https://i.gyazo.com/82d6acc3d7e734da03d669b33fd9b69a.png

The arrows represent where the detection will start to seek out the priority target. It's slightly exaggerated because the picture I took from google was a tad small and hard to draw on.

Edit: I'm not actually sure it applies to Tahm Q, but 100% applies to Thresh Q and Blitz Q I know for a fact.

Vandiril made a video on it, I just can't find it.

Well I was mainly looking for a different comment that best explained the 2D nature of the game and that 3D is just an illusion which is more difficult than I expected with the crap boards search function, other people had explained the "blooming effect" of hooks but they hadn't mentioned that hitbox don't match the model as every champ is a circle.

The thread (and comment) were the best I could find after a few attempts but did mention the 2D limitation of the game, but not as well as the one I was looking for.

OneMustFallMar 16, 20194 votes

Those Thresh hooks were money and right on the hitboxes.

Fail.

Sir SaltarinMar 16, 20194 votes

That Caitlyn skin has some big thighs, that's why you get hit by the skillshots

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20195 votes

Hmm... Dem thighes..[zombie-nunu-hearts]

DarwinTheoryMar 17, 20193 votes

Your mistake was picking Caitlyn.

If you picked Yasuo and posted this RIOT would have him hotfix by tomorrow.

DoombotMar 18, 20193 votes

Thresh Q hit box is way too generous imo. It clearly does not connect but then just latches onto you because the invisible hitbox demands it.

I am Bardo BardMar 17, 20192 votes

I could rip out my hair how Bard's Cosmic Binding (Q) bends the rules. I should collect screenshots and the replay from now on, but when the stun does not count and "vaporizes" despite there is another enemy closely following, or stuns of extra long range that should not happen (even the binding visual effect was interrupted as the A and the B point was so large RIOT didn't intend it I guess) or, my favourite, the "Oh, let's don't stun in a line, but sideways" bullshit when you hit a Minion and a chmp is behind it, it will not stun the champ as supposed, but a minion standing LEFT or RIGHT to it, missing the champ.

So, hitboxes are shit in this game.

sphinxthelion7Mar 16, 20191 votes

I wish I had captured the video of Nocturne literally walking through my q when I was playing Lux. He then killed me. I hit him squarely in the face. He walked straight at me. It went through him. He had no items to explain this. I died.

Also, notice no one from Riot replies to bug threads or customer service tickets anymore...

JuiceBoxPMar 16, 20196 votes

nocturne has a spellshield