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Pyke gets far too much gold from his ultimate now

JuiceBoxP··136 votes·24,919 views

This patch they gave pyke another "your cut" when he gets either a kill or assist with his ult. essentially getting a kill+your cut or just 2 your cuts. We're talking about a minimum 600 gold for takedown. That's absurd. I have been getting ridiculous amounts of gold on pyke ever since this patch. This must be reverted. it is overpowered. one or two kills early with the ult on sends you into hyper mega-snowball course to victory. Pyke becomes just too oppressive if he gets fed early to the point nothing can stop him.

Here, an example game. https://imgur.com/kvjCl5B

Just to put you guys into perspective. I had about 15 takedowns with my ult. you're talking here 4500 gold more than i would've gotten last patch. I'm gonna say it again - **4 5 0 0 gold extra from what used to be. **

When, why and how should a support be having 20k gold? that's just fucked up. completely. i was full build at minute 26:00. Being 260 farm down from the fed adc and up 1.1k gold. That's just too much. Nerf please.

149 Comments

koshkyra50 votes

Imagine if pyke gets first blood with his ultimate? Thats 400 gold to the killer, 200 to the assists and 600 from the “your cuts.” THAT IS 1200 GOLD FROM ONE, NON-SHUTDOWN KILL.

Does riot see this? 1200 gold from a single, non-shutdown, kill. When you take into consideration the effects of a kill (i know this is pushing it a little), you might get 1-2 plates, and if you killed the adc they miss 1-2 waves. That comes up to like a 1400-1800 gold swing from a champion PRESSING R.

And this is in season 9, where it takes one mistake and 0.7 seconds for you to die. Unbelievable.

Boltonator34 votes

Technically Pyke is a Support/Assassin. He has the durability of a true support and the income generation of an assassin.

I still agree that is a rather large amount of gold though...

Inb4 Pyke mains downvote me.

JuiceBoxP7 votes

{quoted}

I still agree that is a rather large amount of gold though...

Indeed.

The0therDad1 votes

{quoted}

Technically Pyke is a Support/Assassin. He has the durability of a true support and the income generation of an assassin.

I still agree that is a rather large amount of gold though...

Inb4 Pyke mains downvote me.

Im a Pyke main, but I cant really disagree...

In this game I went 41/5/10 my Gold income doubled everyone https://imgur.com/a/OUAIdJV -- photo has the graph and the Score board. Once they ... figured it out, it was no time they Stun locked me-

But even with 40 kills, I dont think it should be that high. I don't know. He can be countered super easy as it is, even with a full build, a smart team can ruin him. this game--- in particular, we lost despite me going so hard... Once it hit them that I could Solo 2 or 3 of them, they got it down where Even if I had a QSS Something else would kill me.

Oh and I played him mid vs Yas that game. giving me easy access to top and bot lane ganks, --- I had full build in 15 minutes.

Daddyissuess13 votes

Just laned against a pyke. He got 2 kills with his ult (where he has a 20 sec window to do one again. Which i think is too op) so yea he got like 600 or 900 gold and came back with an duskblade with his first back. Wow riot :)

JuiceBoxP9 votes

2 kills with his ult is a flat 1200 gold. Minimum.

Daddyissuess13 votes

Thats just absurd. And riot only buffed him so much because of his new skin. Riot actually only cares about money and not about their playerbase. Did literally anyone ask for Pyke buffs???

JuiceBoxP11 votes

All the community was asking for is nerfs. I didn't care much for the nerfs on 1.13 because they didn't hurt his support role. But this... This is broken by definition.

Illabethe1 votes

The community just complained about him about the same as any other champ they find frustrating. No more. No Less. The in game bane rates and pick rates were neither all that high, nor was his win rate.

Riot just arbitrarily decided Pyke shouldn't have aoes, and then compensated him for taking them away,

And yeah. the aoe nerfed DID impact Pyke in support..... at least for good supports (who farm after lane, and in Pyke's case, farm in lane when adc isn't).

JuiceBoxP1 votes

Pyke doesn't need aoe to farm in lane when the adc isn't there.

You would farm under the turret and single target is better since you have more control on what gets hit. One bad aoe q could burn you an entire wave under the turret.

I prefer it this way, to be honest.

Illabethe2 votes

Again. Look at how PRO supports play. Pro Supports DO CS. They monitor the gaps In adc coverage, and capture what they do not. Pro play supports average 60-140 CS a game, depending on the support.

Also, Pyke's E + Q could 100% secure a wave once he has 2 items. "Burning a wave" is hogwash.

3TWarrior3 votes

while catching CS that would be lost is valuable, if they make changes based around pro-play, it tends to be a terrible change because pro-play is a different game with different circumstances than even the best players

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

The community just complained about him about the same as any other champ they find frustrating. No more. No Less. The in game bane rates and pick rates were neither all that high, nor was his win rate.

Riot just arbitrarily decided Pyke shouldn't have aoes, and then compensated him for taking them away,

And yeah. the aoe nerfed DID impact Pyke in support..... at least for good supports (who farm after lane, and in Pyke's case, farm in lane when adc isn't).

By riot own admission he was never intended to by able solo lane and he wasnt until buffs and powershifts become to play. If riot dont want him be viable on mid thats fine but giving him compensation for nerfing power that he was not suposed to have in the first place and slap it on reseting ult is pure madness, its not hard for him get multikills and now if he struck triple kill is practically over he will be so ahead that nobody can contest him, he is snowballing at double speed lol. Also i dont know why when riot decide nerf assassins always dispense compensation buffs.

Illabethe1 votes

Please stop referring to straw men when trying to argue something.

There are only two champions in the entire game which Riot seems to want to corridor into a single role. It was and always will be a BS move, because he was neither broken in solo lane, nor is it fair for all other champs to be viable in EVERY role if he can't be.

I don't know if you recall, but originally, Tahm Kench was a support..... (I don't see Riot trying to corridor off his top play; in fact I see them honing in on it and BUFFING it)

And then there's all those "mids" who are now almost exclusively support.....

And those top ADs who are now commonly mids? (Irelia)

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

Please stop referring to straw men when trying to argue something.

There are only two champions in the entire game which Riot seems to want to corridor into a single role. It was and always will be a BS move, because he was neither broken in solo lane, nor is it fair for all other champs to be viable in EVERY role if he can't be.

I don't know if you recall, but originally, Tahm Kench was a support..... (I don't see Riot trying to corridor off his top play; in fact I see them honing in on it and BUFFING it)

And then there's all those "mids" who are now almost exclusively support.....

And those top ADs who are now commonly mids? (Irelia)

I read your comment 5 times and i am sorry i dont really understand what are you talking about. All those "mids" in support is just lux rest is so bad now they are on verge to lost status of midlaner. xerath or velkoz just cannot keep up with mobility burst meta and are more viable as supports and nobody is happy about that. And this tops now commonly mid are just two champions and are there because they have much easier time to lane against mages then fellow toplaners.

Illabethe1 votes

Zyra Brand Anivia Fiddlesticks Morgana Lux Velkoz Veigar

all see substantial support play and have fine mid lane play. Some are even top lane and jungle (I personally jungle Morgana and Zyra)

I think it's ridiculous you try to say Vel Koz (spam god) can't keep up with Burst meta mid lol. People play these champions in both roles; They are just more common in support because it's a Support Queue filling the role who doesn't trust enchanters or tanks who melt when they misplay. Their play rate mid has 0 correlation with their play rate support.

P.S. All these tops currently see active mid play:

Aatrox Garen Gangplank Camille Irelia Jax Poppy Riven MonkeyKing

(Mostly as counterpicks to assassins, or in mage lanes with softer kits who are tankable to the point of a direct Flash > Execute play)

I've even seen Renekton Mid play recently.

And then there's the fact adcs can top, and sometimes even jungle (Twitch, Ez, Kai Sai ALL see jungle play)

Oh and then there's Brand/Karthus Jungling.....

Literally no other champs are corridored to a single role.

Exin01 votes

{quoted}

Zyra Brand Anivia Fiddlesticks Morgana Lux Velkoz Veigar

all see substantial support play and have fine mid lane play. Some are even top lane and jungle (I personally jungle Morgana and Zyra)

I think it's ridiculous you try to say Vel Koz (spam god) can't keep up with Burst meta mid lol. People play these champions in both roles; They are just more common in support because it's a Support Queue filling the role who doesn't trust enchanters or tanks who melt when they misplay. Their play rate mid has 0 correlation with their play rate support.

P.S. All these tops currently see active mid play:

Aatrox Garen Gangplank Camille Irelia Jax Poppy Riven MonkeyKing

(Mostly as counterpicks to assassins, or in mage lanes with softer kits who are tankable to the point of a direct Flash > Execute play)

I've even seen Renekton Mid play recently.

And then there's the fact adcs can top, and sometimes even jungle (Twitch, Ez, Kai Sai ALL see jungle play)

Oh and then there's Brand/Karthus Jungling.....

Literally no other champs are corridored to a single role.

Zyra - failed midlaner, for long time played only as support whooping 2,32% pick rate Brand - same deal Anivia - miserable midlane pick rate and support cheese that dont even have statistics Fiddlestick - jungle/ap something with even lower numbers then champions before, nonexistent stats for mid Morgana - midlaner kicked out of midlane loooong ago with dispensed nerfs when she dare to step into midlane again Lux - only midlaner played as support Velkoz - almost former midlaner with tiny pickrates in both doing better as support Veigar - unpopular pick and his unbelievable 0.75% sup pick rate is cheese not mage dominating support role

Aatrox - 1% mid pick with 47% win Garen - 0.4% GP - 0.6 Cammile - 0.8 Irrelia - 5.5% pick 45%win only top lane played on mid Jax - 0.1 Poppy - 0.1 Riven - 0.6 Wukong - 0.5

Karthus jungle - 3.4% former midlaner picked as jungler for not lane against opponent and global ult Brand jungle -0.1

All your examples top goes mid are just cheese or attempt to try something different with so low pickrates you probably experience them once in year and mid to bot are mostly same deal mixed with former midlaners ousted out of their lane and forced to go support. sorry but 0.x % pickrates arent substantial plays. And their mid play rates HAVE direct correlation with supp pick rates, you see if midlaner is struggling to function on midlane there is incentive to try him work as support before he fall into obscurity.

Ηuawei1 votes

{quoted}

Zyra - failed midlaner, for long time played only as support whooping 2,32% pick rate Brand - same deal Anivia - miserable midlane pick rate and support cheese that dont even have statistics Fiddlestick - jungle/ap something with even lower numbers then champions before, nonexistent stats for mid Morgana - midlaner kicked out of midlane loooong ago with dispensed nerfs when she dare to step into midlane again Lux - only midlaner played as support Velkoz - almost former midlaner with tiny pickrates in both doing better as support Veigar - unpopular pick and his unbelievable 0.75% sup pick rate is cheese not mage dominating support role

Aatrox - 1% mid pick with 47% win Garen - 0.4% GP - 0.6 Cammile - 0.8 Irrelia - 5.5% pick 45%win only top lane played on mid Jax - 0.1 Poppy - 0.1 Riven - 0.6 Wukong - 0.5

Karthus jungle - 3.4% former midlaner picked as jungler for not lane against opponent and global ult Brand jungle -0.1

All your examples top goes mid are just cheese or attempt to try something different with so low pickrates you probably experience them once in year and mid to bot are mostly same deal mixed with former midlaners ousted out of their lane and forced to go support. sorry but 0.x % pickrates arent substantial plays. And their mid play rates HAVE direct correlation with supp pick rates, you see if midlaner is struggling to function on midlane there is incentive to try him work as support before he fall into obscurity.

Zyra a failed mid laner?

Me and my Zyra want to have a word with you.

She is actually a strong mid laner unless you're counterpicked hard like Zed, but a lot of mages are weak against Zed.

She is also superbly good against Yasuo.

She can also be played top lane.

Exin01 votes

[{quoted}](name=Xalasmeni Banana,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=00040000000000000000000100000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-23T18:00:02.895+0000)

Zyra a failed mid laner?

Me and my Zyra want to have a word with you.

She is actually a strong mid laner unless you're counterpicked hard like Zed, but a lot of mages are weak against Zed.

She is also superbly good against Yasuo.

She can also be played top lane.

bacause you play it mid and nobody else she is fullfledged good midlane mage?

Knyron7 votes

Gotta sell the new skins boyssssssssssssssssssssss

Darkdemon6534 votes

Why do you have Hail of Blades?

JuiceBoxP18 votes

It's really strong. 3 fast autos hurt a lot when you got a lot of AD

JackMcCarry17 votes

When you get downvoted for you rune selection lol

PlsTouchMeGently3 votes

To be fair, people have to be a bit stupid to be hit by Pyke’s ult. It has a lot of counters. Mobility, healing, etc.

JuiceBoxP40 votes

It's really, really not that hard to get hit by it. The hitbox is rather large.

PlsTouchMeGently2 votes

In higher elos, it actually is hard to get hit by it. But I can understand why it would stomp in lower elo.

Ayzev25 votes

[{quoted}](name=Gaijin Bengoshi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2019-07-20T20:49:59.880+0000)

just dodge it lmao git gud

https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/pyke/master

Guess people suck at the game all the way up to Masters

Marshbouy24 votes

I hate the "people in high elos are better at dodging" argument because it ignores the fact that people in high elos are also better at aiming

Pika Fox3 votes

I dont really see the problem with this, given they gutted his waveclear, which is essential to an extent on a support.

JuiceBoxP5 votes

Diver support running on adc+ budget.... Nothing wrong... You're probably right...

Pika Fox2 votes

He has 0 damage outside ult, and cant put you in ult range solo unless he is obscenely fed 2 items up on you. Its fine for a support.

dogownerjr6 votes

That's simply not true. All his abilities that do damage do noticeable damage. His Q doesn't hit an entire area anymore but it prioritizes champs. His E doesn't do damage to minions but still does damage to champs. Honestly, Pyke shouldn't be able to do too many things solo because he's a support. He should be SUPPORTING someone. Despite that, Pyke still has decent solo potential currently.

Pika Fox1 votes

His abilities dont do any noticable damage, being less than most supports, and less than all assassins.

He has 0 threat potential solo outside his ult, and even then 0 threat potetential as long as youre >75%hp.

JuiceBoxP6 votes

You are really talking nonsense. Pyke's kill potential is very real. He doesn't have damage like zed, but he got kill pressure for sure.

Pika Fox1 votes

If no one else is near and youre healthy, his kill potential is LITERALLY he will die if he tries to kill you. Literally negative kill potential solo.

JuiceBoxP6 votes

Okay, so you're telling me, a pyke main, who successfully won hundreds of skirmishes with pyke, that pyke has 0 kill potential. Do i need to spell out how foolish you make yourself look?

Pika Fox1 votes

If you think pyke has any kill potential solo, then youre a pretty bad pyke main. Leona has more solo kill potential than pyke.

JuiceBoxP5 votes
  • Literally negative kill potential solo.
  • His abilities dont do any noticable damage
  • 0 threat potetential

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GZ1SFg81Ypc

Don't become the board's meme.

CaptainAntiHeroz2 votes

He has 15 kills though, twitch has 11 and the gold difference isnt that much, if it was more than 2k for a 4 kill difference than maybe

JuiceBoxP61 votes

You're missing a little small detail... TWITCH HAD 260 MORE FARM

CaptainAntiHeroz15 votes

{quoted}

You're missing a little small detail... TWITCH HAD 260 MORE FARM

Riot likes Pyke more than other supports [sg-janna]

Death by Glamour24 votes

LC$

I Spread Cancer8 votes

he's missing one more details, twitch do get gold too from assisting pyke ultimate.

Emperor Talquin1 votes

He is the support the twitch is the adc. Come on that should of been 0bvious.

CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emperor Talquin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2019-07-21T15:38:40.580+0000)

He is the support the twitch is the adc. Come on that should of been 0bvious.

You think I dont know that? I can see the medallion

Emperor Talquin1 votes

Cool then why write a comment that clearly states you don't know it.

CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emperor Talquin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=0006000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T15:46:27.729+0000)

Cool then why write a comment that clearly states you don't know it.

i state that pyke has 15 kills and twitch has 11? got a problem with that? its called numbers i hope thats not too difficult

Emperor Talquin1 votes

Wait why am i even trying to teach you xD. You're first comment is so insanely stupid. You will learn someday but today isn't that day.

CaptainAntiHeroz1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Emperor Talquin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8rfIss6n,comment-id=000600010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-21T16:09:48.202+0000)

Wait why am i even trying to teach you xD. You're first comment is so insanely stupid. You will learn someday but today isn't that day.

all he has to do is kill people worth gold, and kat had to die to someone 11 times, if he ults for shut downs, he'd obviously benefit from having more kills especially if the enemy team keeps resetting their gold value so he gets the most out of his ult every time he uses it. But no instead of using logic you would rather be rude instead of look at the full picture but go on, live in you hubris

JuiceBoxP2 votes

Your first comment was a bit silly. You obviously didn't pay much attention while writing it. No reason for him to be rude though.

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