Riot this is gonna sound counter intuitive, but

deadlychuck··2 votes·397 views

Quit designing champions so well.

These designs like Camille, Yasuo, Rengar, Ekko, Illaoi, Zed, Lee Sin, Thresh, exc. have pushed the game further along the power curve. It's not that you can't nerf the numbers to reduce their win rates, it's that you give them 8+ mechanics which all interact with the other mechanics in such a seamless manner that other champions are forced to make up for the deficiency through raw numerical power (either damage or CC).

You want to increase champion diversity? Make each champion have two viable methods of play/building which make them preform very differently. What i mean is that a build like AD fizz vs AP fizz changes nothing about how the champion plays. However, if AP fizz relied on his E for damage, and AD fizz relied on his Q, then you would get very different patterns of play which enemy players can adjust for and play against on just about any champion they choose.

2 Comments

newyorkninja1 votes

I mean that's how it used to be but riot decided they didn't want things like that to happen to make it easier to balance. Considering how oppressive things like tank/ad fizz and especially AP Yi were we probably won't get support for off-builds any time soon. It also has to do with earlier design philosophy back when they thought "hey this is an ability so it should scale with ability power" for every champ. That was the whole reason ap sion and the like existed. For some others it was to make triforce give a little boost (back when it used to give ap) like on irelia but now it's outdated.

Honestly I get it too, I love playing off meta builds but unless both are equally viable or one gives a specific distinction (i.e. a slow becomes a stun after x ap or something like that) there will always be one that is just better period. Also considering their modern design philosophy (like you mentioned they have so many mechanics but mostly one way to use them), most champs they make play in a certain way. They have clearly defined damage patterns. Camille for instance, engage with e, hit q1, w so they can't run away or ult, Q2. Yasuo: charge q on minions, dash, dash, dash-q-ult-q, windwall for retaliation or to cover your engage. Since there really is no other way to go about these champs other than their intended playstyle giving them an ap scaling would just create more balancing problems if one side got out of hand (yas with ludens lich bane or something). It's just easier for them not to do it at all.

deadlychuck1 votes

It's not really about the off meta builds though. It's about not giving champions 5 abilities, some with multiple mechanics, which can all be utilized to their full extent with the same build.

Another good example of this is actually AP varus and AD varus. They are both reasonably viable, but where AD varus focuses on a poke centered play style, AP varus has his strengths in medium range burst. Purely based on which stat you decided to build. This means that if you pick varus into a game against a team with powerful engage and/or healing, which you can't reasonably poke down, then you can make the active decision in game to switch your build to play in a why which is more appropriate to the situation. If anything instead of off builds, they should be called "secondary builds", for when the enemy team counters your primary play style. Actually this might be why lee sin seems to be the bridge between the old philosophy and the new one. He forces players into a primary and secondary build throughout the game. He starts out as an assassin style fighter, then switches into a tank style fighter as he starts to fall behind in scaling. He's got a primary and secondary play style, but he forces players to play in that manner.

I get that they want to make the game "easier to balance", but it's worked to make it harder to balance, when you have to try and balance champions who have this mechanical strength against champions who have numerical strength. Not to mention it's had adverse affects on different archetypes. Increase AD on all items by 10, to help ADCs, then you push bruisers who get maximum value out of AD over a threshold of 100-0 burst. All they've accomplished is to create a more defined hierarchy of champions and removing player identity in respect to how you prefer to utilize the tools of the champion.

Oh yeah, and as far as AP yi, Tank fizz, Tank Ekko, exc, go. Those were often problems of the off builds getting some kind of unadjustable advantage from core build mechanics. Yi's Q reset, Fizz's E dodge, Ekko's E (all 3 parts) and R. So separate them more, don't remove the off builds because you want to preserve one of the play styles while throwing the other out. This is what happened with Malzahar in the update, except they just combine the play styles into one, in a poorly thought out manner, and now look at the hole they've dug themselves into.

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