What stage in the game are assassins meant to be weak? Especially as a mage.

PopcornBunni··2 votes·304 views

I've been trying to get Anivia 's mastery chest for hrmm, about 7 months now and always seem run into assassins mid, and can't find any point in the game at which they are weaker than her.

Teemo Out cs's early and scales strongly late while Anivia falls off after 40 minutes. Can deal 40% damage with a single auto.

Zed goes alright until he hits 6 then he clicks on me outside my spell range and kills me or at least threatens to do so, then proceeds to out cs me for the first 25 minutes and outscale me late

Ahri feels the most doable, but can push and roam to put pressure across the map or pick up kills; one-shots late game

Akali Can shroud pre-6 to avoid any damage, outtrades, and has infinite sustain early, focing a back while I run out of mana after five spells, keeps infinite sustain late and can 1v5

Fizz Can dodge on reaction to avoid all damage then all in on anivia's cooldowns, forces trades and can tower dive with impunity. Late game can also 3-for-1

Katarina Literally infinite sustain with lower cooldowns than Anivia, knives to hop around freely avoiding damage, ult demolishes entire team late

Yasuo Windwall invalidates damage from spells and dash invalidates both R and W; can out farm then combo into ult +2 autos to destroy egg form late

Diana E pulls out of tower after her dive, her poke scales better, and her passive lets her stay in lane early

I haven't played against a Talon yet so maybe that's an assassin that actually falls off, but it seems like the class just scales far better than mages. I'm using Anivia as the example more than just because I'm trying to get her chest- she also is supposed to be a hallmark for a mage that scales into late game, but the Assassins mid seem to just get better and better the later the game goes.

Is the trick to just give up trying to get farm entirely and buy item 3110 item 3047 item 3102 item 3075 item 3083item 3157 and just try to provide team support with crowd control and area denial?

11 Comments

CamilleRule344 votes

-cracks knuckles- Ok this is what i'd do for all of these.

Teemo: Your stun and ult out range him, you simply just have to stay out of the range of his Q and you should be fine, a lot of positioning goes into mages, Teemo isnt an assassin even.

Zed: As scary as his death mark is, you have your egg, and you know where he'll be going once he marks you. Put your ult on your self and it'll make doing damage to you a lot more dangerous when he tries to all in.

Ahri: Again ahri's range is kind of awkward, if you can dodge her Q, she has to get into decent proximity, in which you can punish this with your ult. If you feel that ahri si going to go in on you, throw your wall behind her and throw down an ult between the two of you, forcing her to use abilities to get out fo the damaging area.

Akali: if mana-gment (hah) is an issue against akali, and you know you're going against akali, be sure to take Meditation and maybe in 3 mana regen runes if you feel scared. You can also back early for a double dorans ring, since that will help you sustain. Again with zed, the same rule applies. If you knwo she has to go to you to do her damage, ult yourself to deter her. Also dont be afraid to throw your stun into her shroud, since if shes in it, chances are its gonna hit her.

Fizz: Simply dont use any of your cool downs, you out range him in every way and again, his need of proximity is your advantage. Try to rush a zhonyas, and always be wary of where he is going to ult. if you get hit by his ult, put a wall inbetween him and you, then ult yourself. this will make it a lot harder for him to get to you, since he'll have to use either his E to get over the wall, or his Q to get through it via a minion, either way he'll have to burn 1 mobility or damage spell, giving you the upper hand.

Katainra: I really dont get what you mean when you say sustain, Kata has no life steal. Kata is also squishy as fuck. Stay away and aware of where her daggers land, and if you think she's going to shunpo or death lotus to an area, ult there early.

Yasuo: Chances are the yasuo will use his W preventively, so really all you can do is try to put a wall up between the two of you when he starts coming at you, auto him to remove his shield, and ult yourself and back off until the wind wall goes down, and then retaliate with your spells.

Diana: I have no idea what you mean when her passive lets her stay in early? Isnt it 3 hits = bigger hit with a bit of Aoe? that shouldnt give her any advantage to 'stay in lane' since when she walks up to her minions, you walk towards her and throw shit at her. Her Q is easy to dodge if you dont go left to right, but back and forth instead. And again, when she all ins, pop an ult on yourself, and make her pay for needing to be in melee range.

PopcornBunni1 votes

{quoted}

-cracks knuckles- Ok this is what i'd do for all of these.

Thanks for the detailed response. When I say sustain I mean they can stay in lane due to not having to worry about their mana. Dianna regenerates mana with her passive, while the ninjas and katarina don't have mana to worry about in the first place.

The self-cast Ult is a good idea, but it will be shut off with a stun or knockup from the champions you mentioned using it against.

I'll take mana regen runes next game I try; I only have enough IP for two greater regen so I'm doubling down with a couple of lesser regen over the scaling AP runes I currently have.

What summoner spells do you recommend for these matchups? I normally take summoner 4 summoner 3 to try and stop their damage but I'd like to hear your suggestions.

CamilleRule342 votes

While they dont have to worry about mana, they do have to worry about HP, so try to harass them when you can. If your W costs 60 mana, and your hp regen is 60 mana per 30 seconds, W them every 30 seconds give or take. Id take barrier btw, since damage mitigation is a big pain in assassins asses

PopcornBunni1 votes

{quoted}

Zed: As scary as his death mark is, you have your egg, and you know where he'll be going once he marks you. Put your ult on your self and it'll make doing damage to you a lot more dangerous when he tries to all in.

{quoted}

While they dont have to worry about mana, they do have to worry about HP, so try to harass them when you can. If your W costs 60 mana, and your hp regen is 60 mana per 30 seconds, W them every 30 seconds give or take. Id take barrier btw, since damage mitigation is a big pain in assassins asses

Just tried this against a Zed; he moved away from Q then proceeded teleport through W to deal 33% of my health while it was on cooldown. I backed off and he went top, ending up going 3/0/3 while I went 0/1/0 and the game ending at 17:05, their team up by 3990 gold.

CamilleRule341 votes

Without seeing the actual game, I can't give any more insight than my hypotheticals

PopcornBunni1 votes

{quoted}

Without seeing the actual game, I can't give any more insight than my hypotheticals

Is there a way to share replays? I have no recording software.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2565456103/235499825?tab=builds

CamilleRule341 votes

Download the replay in your match history, there will be a file put into your documents somewhere I believe, if you send me that file I can watch your game.

Joxcab2 votes

[deleted]

CamilleRule342 votes

esp since most assassins are melee range even. I noticed that they didnt mention ekko, which is a more frequently played assassin than Diana, id think. I might be wrong on that.

Dark Nephthys2 votes

Against Assassins as Anivia it's all about knowing when to save or use your abilities. In most casses, the Assassins will have a huge dis-advantage against Mages pre level 6 and would require them to farm up until level 6 to be really threatening. The problem with playing Anivia in those match ups is that your Q (Stun) is literally 100% of your entire lane phase, as if you miss it you have nothing at all (besides for your E which is weak af when not empowered). So playing against Assassins that has mobility (pre level 6 mobility) as Anivia are a lot harder then some people want you to believe.

Though once you reach level 6, your kit becomes so much more reliable and deadly, just as an Assassins is and honestly I feel Anivia Vs Assassins in most casses are skill match ups besides for select ones. Personally the only Assassins that I feel have such a huge advantage over Anivia and who'd I say "counters" her is Fizz Kassadin. I'd also want to add Leblanc as one as well, but that one might be a personal counter to me since I hate her with a passion and can't deal with her (other Anivia players might be fine against Leblanc).

Probably the easiest of the Assassins to fight as Anivia might be Zed which might be surprising to some, or at least I feel he is the most mangable for me. Since his mobility is very telegraphed as you can see their shadow and you can easily bait him on to jumping on you with his ult and you even know where he is going so if you save your Q for when he ults, it's generally an easy match up.

Against others it's really just knowing the Assassin and thinking of stuff like "How can I trap them in my ultimate for 1.5 seconds for my empowered E" or "Will they jump on me if I do X and when should I know to use my stun or wall". An example is that I've won fights against Katarina by using my stun on them before they jumped on me, even if they dodged it they realized my hard CC is gone and try to jump on me...but they forget that my wall pushes people back if used on them so you could use that to stop Kat's ult. It's not always optimal strategy but I have won some times by just baiting out Kat's ultimate early in 1v1s.

Also know that as Anivia, the Assassins will always always hover towards one of the sides of Mid lane and hide in one of the bushes. They do this to see if you will walk over there to follow them and jump on you if you walk towards them. If your lane starts roaming, it's best to just push the wave and not follow them (or take the long path around warded areas) or go to the other lane that they didn't go. Do not walk into un-warded areas trying to follow your lane opponent since its so easy for them to jump on you and instantly kill you.

Really though, it's about knowing when to play safe and to play aggressive. Assassins do fall off and Anivia will out-scale them. If you are not comfortable enough to try to fight them, then best to just stay safe and push waves and ping every time they go missing and rely on her late game in team fights. Because an Anivia with 0/0/0 stats is far more scarier than Assassins with 0/0/0 stats post 30 mins.

Grimspeake1 votes

Bless your poor soul

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