Point and click rooting.

AR URF·Dec 22, 2018·20 votes·12,474 views

I used to think that mechanic was stupid. Like how would just point and click root and use his other abilties. Same with ult.

But I've since changed my mind because of all the dashes, walking through walls, almost flying over terrain like and not to mention escaping with ease using the same options.

The only way to really combat all these dashes is by making more champions have point and click rooting. the only catch would be that it would be for utility based champions, like supports and tanks.

Besides wouldn't it make sense with all the dashes and immobile champions? The game can't be balanced around immobile champions and champions with dashes if you want the game to last virtually forever and remain in a healthy state.

It would also open up for different build paths and making a more viable options. Cause right now any assassin is going to build and before considering . In fact I really don't see anyone build that item anymore. The only reason to build is when the enemy team are all squishy champs and you want the extra lethality.

in conclusion, please bring back the high risk aspect of the game.

43 Comments

saltranDec 22, 201810 votes

The problem is that sometimes point and click cc instead of countering hipermobile champs is even stronger againt immobile champs, so, I dont think that adding a bunch of point and click cc will solve anything.

FilDaFunkDec 23, 20181 votes

Immobile champions tended to get a range advantage.

Kai GuyDec 22, 201810 votes

More point and click Grounding. Cassiopeia Singed have it (not point and click mind you. just the cc). Why rework/add some more? Its a good anti mobility CC that does not complete dick immobile champions over.

Handy Sandy Dec 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-22T11:27:40.988+0000)

More point and click Grounding. have it (not point and click mind you. just the cc). Why rework/add some more? Its a good anti mobility CC that does not complete dick immobile champions over.

You can't flash, which makes getting away as an immobile champion impossible.

Kai GuyDec 22, 20182 votes

Not really? Like good positioning Is key for immobile so low range point and click single target grounded debuffs going to really cripple folks mid mobility. Ahri Akali Every form of hard CC or soft CC besides Silence is going to hit a immobile champion worse, because realistically if your kit has dashs, blinks, your cd for those ability's is lower then flash.

Losing flash to this would just be a small setback and its not like your incapable of walking away and kiteing. Which you should be good at if your playing low mobility.

End of the day its harder cc for mobile champs then immobile.

Handy Sandy Dec 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-22T21:53:43.091+0000)

End of the day its harder cc for mobile champs then immobile.

That's backwards, anything that a mobile champion can shrug off is death for an immobile champion because they can't jump away the second the cc wears off.

Kai GuyDec 23, 20181 votes

Yes but many immobile champions have an advantage in range or require a player to maintain a much safer positioning. Now not to say all players do this many will not.

there's a real difference between what would happen to a Ahri getting slapped with grounded mid R then a Xerath getting clipped by it at the edge of a fight.

Effectively, being grounded on a immobile champion with flash on cd is exactly the same as if they don't get grounded at all. It makes no impact to them in the slightest. Meanwhile champions whos kits provide mobility are locked out of their abilitys, several which directly impact damage. Ahri Akali Jax

So it functions as a mini silence on mobile champions. Only matters to Inmobile ones or MS steroids if your flash is off cd. And frankly as a inmobile champion who just got slapped with a point and click CC, if that was a stun or snare youd be way more screwed then being grounded with flash on cd.

All you stand to lose is flash, if you have it. Others will lose abilitys, damage, cc, gapcloser etc. Hence why im telling ya that Grounded as CC affects mobile champions more then immobile.

Does that clear my logic up a bit?

Handy Sandy Dec 23, 20181 votes

All you stand to lose is flash, if you have it. Others will lose abilitys, damage, cc, gapcloser etc. Hence why im telling ya that Grounded as CC affects mobile champions more then immobile.

The little amount of mobility that you have is taken away, and think of after it wears off. You missed your chance to flash key abilities and now you have nothing to get away, when as Riven you could start q/eing out.

Kai GuyDec 23, 20181 votes

Your building your argument around a 300 second cooldown. Grounded has 0 effect on your inmobile champions kit. All abilitys remain usable. Meanwhile it turns a mobile champion inmobile and locks them out of their kit. If a grounded inmobile who needed flash to evade a key ability? Kudos the exact same situation happens to a mobile champion gounded.

The mechanic impacts mobile champions more negatively then immobile ones. Its really that simple. Its not that losing the ability to flash is not significant, its that destroying a core aspect of some champions best cases is much more impactful then temporarily losing a 300 second CD SS. If you die and don't waste flash? good news flash is still off cd. If you can survive the duration? Flash may or may not save your life. Just like mobility might. that being said, grounded going to spend more uptime disableing mobile champions then inmobile ones. More ability's it prevents the more it locks you down. Click and point grounded with no slow at the right time is brutal on champions like Riven Yasuo Akali Rakan LeeSin

Meanwhile champions like Ashe Xerath Lux shouldn't be positioning to the point losing flash for a second or two results in death. Because if they have to flash that, its gone. their positioning's now potentially lethal for them for the next 300 seconds.

Tldr if you have to blow flash on immobile champions every single fight to not die? Then your not helping your team much because your dead every fight in-between CD. Learn to position and use your kit to an advantage.

RisenFromTheAshDec 23, 20183 votes

[{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-12-22T11:27:40.988+0000)

More point and click Grounding. have it (not point and click mind you. just the cc). Why rework/add some more? Its a good anti mobility CC that does not complete dick immobile champions over.

I was discussing this with a rumble main Rumble on one of my other posts, we were talking about ways to make him feel better without breaking proplay. Adding grounding to his ult was the best idea we had. Lower the damage, but slow and ground. This makes his ult a little more unique with less team follow up needed for it to work.

ŚhunpoDec 24, 20181 votes

They'd need to significantly hit the damage cause that just sounds broken.

Z3SleeperDec 23, 20181 votes

I just don't like how all grounding thus far is tied to slow effects as well which most definitely dick over immobile champs. Both Singed's and Cass's are pretty hefty slows.

If we introduced more champions with grounding in their kit without slowing components built into them then I'd be down for this.

As it stands, all current grounding effects dick over immobile champs much more than mobile champs.

Kai GuyDec 23, 20181 votes

Yep. Im talking a point and click that applys Grounding and stops dashes. Magnetic Hextech or gravity mage would be a pretty reasonable kit to add it to. Looking for an ability that's primary usage is to lock down 1 highly mobile target, and apply damage. Thinking with a AS slow rather then MS slow.

Z3SleeperDec 23, 20181 votes

They should replace Viktor's Gravity augment with that.

That'd prolly help mid Viktor alot with much needed utility for a immobile mage. Then we can stop buffing his damage.

Not really relevant to the topic tho mb lol.

rastarogueDec 22, 20189 votes

I miss old taric point and click stun. If it hit up close it did more damage and further away lost damage but the stun length went up. Was a good counter to some really mobile champs.

They could still get away, over a wall or just fast enough to be far away, but was useful to help peel. While the multi person stun now is nice I would go back in a heartbeat.

Beast BrawlerDec 23, 20181 votes

I liked the armor shred and being able to 1v1 the enemy adc due to the stun and armor buff/shred thing on I think his W.

NetorareDec 22, 20186 votes

Point and click cc is bullshit but its the only way of dealing with abominations like yi and other garbage ass mobile bullshit champs. Fuck camille.

Fire BlaustoiseDec 23, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Point and click cc is bullshit but its the only way of dealing with abominations like yi and other garbage ass mobile bullshit champs.

are you serious ??

Lilin AsheDec 22, 20183 votes

If you give other champs point and click it might lead to some of the current point and clickers losing part of what makes them strong Annie point and click stun Ryze point and click snare Twisted Fate click attack stun Braum has some weird attack stun Leona attack stun

If you give this to some other champions Leona would still work well cause she has like a slow and secondary stun and shares a lot with amamu's kit just ad instead of ap and more reliable cc hits twisted fate stunning with autos is his thing and if kennen zaps you enough he has a hit click stun as well Ryze is the only click snarer but his snare is also the shortest one unless you have a perfect rotation and hit a second snare then his got hte longest snare in the game, but his snare is not that threatening damage wise and without perfect rotations like the pros Ryze is really not that big of a problem his click snare is his defining feature and its one of the main ways to deal with mobility champs outside of Malz ult and remember Warwick had point click suppression before.

We do not need more counters to mobility, we need more counters to continuous mobility or absolutely broken mobility

I do know one thing though, try this team comp as an idea

Zilean, Rengar and Morgana are in a bush, Morgana shields rengar you speed him up when he enters ultimate and watch how fast he will fly accross the map catching a full speed Quinn or Hecarim. I just wish the queue balancing was a bit better but then we would end up with longer queue times, everything is a give and take.

Mobility is fine, if people run away, take objectives and force them to engage instead of running away with their hyper speeds.

Old Taric and Old Sion both had point click stun, but had it taken away cause they either lacked any other redeeming qualities or they got broken with it

Crispy0SnakeDec 22, 20182 votes

All the AD Assassins were nerfed to compensate for item 3147 being in the game, so now they have to build duskblade or they're pretty irrelevant. The balance team created a reliance on that item that really won't be challenged for a long time.

I think the game needs more grounding abilities that silence dashes/blinks. It doesn't have to slow or silence their dmg, just keep them from flyin about. It also has really good potential for skill expression

Lee Woo jinDec 22, 20182 votes

this is exactly what i think point and click is definitly not an unhealty way to play specially whith all the scripter who became more performant more hard to suspect point and click is undodgeable i really hope they will not put 100 skill shot in all the next rework specialy my fiddel

ValiantKillerDec 22, 20182 votes

Kalista you forgot that walking hell that going to be super op with the crit changes that is coming soon.

GilgayuDec 22, 20181 votes

That's why qss exist though.

A fed adc can kill a ryze if he knows how to side-step ryze's q's. Malz without ult is a joke unless he is super fed. Camile is actually good right now, tier 2 at least. But her damage can also be denied if you can predict her e (without qss).

I think point and click cc are okay, the real problem is the champions that are barely affected by those cc's. A classic example is master yi. When he ults the only counterplay is to hard cc him, but if he has qss, you are doomed. Akali is also a good example. She can just put her shroud right before the cc, and legit just sit in there until the duration ends. She can also dash to you from the other end of your screen, which is really unhealthy for an assassin.

In general, I think right now cc's are kind of op so to compensate for all the damage in the game.

DearPearDec 22, 20181 votes

Point and click instant distant hard CCs should not exist, period. There are so many better options...

deltemp951512Dec 22, 20181 votes

Point and click CC is for people who suck at hitting skill shots. If it was up to me there wouldn't be any point and click CC in the game. But then again, I play at a higher level than most of the people on the boards.

(this is not my main account, don't ask for my main account, I'm not telling you)

Radiant SeraphDec 22, 20183 votes

XDDD

Yeah, of course

Lee Woo jinDec 22, 20183 votes

[deleted]

deltemp951512Dec 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lee Woo jin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2018-12-22T20:48:04.091+0000)

ahahahha shut up ironkid you suck xD

Oh and btw this definitly your main account since you play only normal you know you are garbage to play ranked cya kido.

Play me for money. $500 howling abyss first blood.

We will go through a hosting site so neither of us can back out.

I have all champions just tell me who we are playing.

The TrentDec 22, 20181 votes

It really ain't that hard to hit a root while someone is dashing though. Am I missing something or are you just asking for champions that would only be useful in low elo? They're not going to make a point and click root as strong as a skill shot root, so these point and clickers will just get passed by higher skill cap champs. Like I haven't missed a root on camille mid dash in ages. she literally just goes in two straight lines and flys towards a wall where you can aim your root. The only reason Ryze is even good is because they thought that making a champion "take skill" by having to do multiple rotations extremely fast over and over again was a good idea. In reality he's just a weird burst tank mage that no one likes to play against and everyone has a headache playing. Malz just has wayyy too much counterplay and he gets outvalued by everyone. Not a good idea to add more point and click stuff into the game imo. Doesn't feel that great to play against either. I'd be okay with a semi skill shot point and click root like they have in smite. You just have to hover your mouse under someone, but if they dash last second and you click the ground and miss them, you miss the root. That's okay in my book. More stuff like ryze? No thanks.

AR URFDec 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Trent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2018-12-22T16:43:18.834+0000)

It really ain't that hard to hit a root while someone is dashing though. Am I missing something or are you just asking for champions that would only be useful in low elo? They're not going to make a point and click root as strong as a skill shot root, so these point and clickers will just get passed by higher skill cap champs. Like I haven't missed a root on camille mid dash in ages. she literally just goes in two straight lines and flys towards a wall where you can aim your root. The only reason Ryze is even good is because they thought that making a champion "take skill" by having to do multiple rotations extremely fast over and over again was a good idea. In reality he's just a weird burst tank mage that no one likes to play against and everyone has a headache playing. Malz just has wayyy too much counterplay and he gets outvalued by everyone. Not a good idea to add more point and click stuff into the game imo. Doesn't feel that great to play against either. I'd be okay with a semi skill shot point and click root like they have in smite. You just have to hover your mouse under someone, but if they dash last second and you click the ground and miss them, you miss the root. That's okay in my book. More stuff like ryze? No thanks.

it's not hard to hit a root, but usually by the time you land it the dmg is done. Also whatever happened to this game catering to all elos?

The TrentDec 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-12-22T17:07:10.682+0000)

it's not hard to hit a root, but usually by the time you land it the dmg is done. Also whatever happened to this game catering to all elos?

Why exactly would you want to cater to all elos? Literally you don't nerf a math problem when you can't solve, you learn from your teacher until you can solve it. You don't add in more point and click cc which riot has removed a lot of because you're having a hard time hitting skill shots, you learn how to land skill shots. If the damage by the enemy is already done by the time you've landed you're root, you probably are just a really slow player and wait for them to make the play before you do. This is an aggressive meta, if you're going to wait for other people to make plays before you do, you deserve to die in that situation. This isn't a defencive game atm and most passive strategies are extremely horrible. I guess you were on board with those Darius and Garen nerfs lmao. I hate Garen and Darius on every level except their looks, but those nerfs were dumb as hell considering it feels like a 4v5 as long as you don't feed them. What every happened to people trying to become BETTER at video games? Now they just cry when they have a hard time playing against something until it's nerfed. This game has never catered to all elos except for a few instances to nerfs to already horrible champions because they were lane bullies. This game should never cater to low elos. QoL buffs for low elo players is whatever. Them adding buff, drag and baron timers was whatever. You asking them to make garbage mechanics for garbage tier players, not whatever. Just improve lmao, not that hard. I've seen people out her get to plat their first season playing because instead of going to the boards to complain about not enough click cc, which riot has been removing slowly over the years from just about everyone, they look up guides, stratagies and tips to help them improve. Everyone can state their opinion but when your opinion is a pretty bad one and people literally explain to you why, and you still stand by that opinion, that's called ignorance.

AR URFDec 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Trent,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-12-22T21:59:57.515+0000)

Why exactly would you want to cater to all elos? Literally you don't nerf a math problem when you can't solve, you learn from your teacher until you can solve it. You don't add in more point and click cc which riot has removed a lot of because you're having a hard time hitting skill shots, you learn how to land skill shots. If the damage by the enemy is already done by the time you've landed you're root, you probably are just a really slow player and wait for them to make the play before you do. This is an aggressive meta, if you're going to wait for other people to make plays before you do, you deserve to die in that situation. This isn't a defencive game atm and most passive strategies are extremely horrible. I guess you were on board with those Darius and Garen nerfs lmao. I hate Garen and Darius on every level except their looks, but those nerfs were dumb as hell considering it feels like a 4v5 as long as you don't feed them. What every happened to people trying to become BETTER at video games? Now they just cry when they have a hard time playing against something until it's nerfed. This game has never catered to all elos except for a few instances to nerfs to already horrible champions because they were lane bullies. This game should never cater to low elos. QoL buffs for low elo players is whatever. Them adding buff, drag and baron timers was whatever. You asking them to make garbage mechanics for garbage tier players, not whatever. Just improve lmao, not that hard. I've seen people out her get to plat their first season playing because instead of going to the boards to complain about not enough click cc, which riot has been removing slowly over the years from just about everyone, they look up guides, stratagies and tips to help them improve. Everyone can state their opinion but when your opinion is a pretty bad one and people literally explain to you why, and you still stand by that opinion, that's called ignorance.

I'm all for aggressive strategies, but it all depends on if the enemy is fed or not. Playing smart and waiting for peel is not a bad thing.

The Taco KatDec 22, 20183 votes

It's next to impossible to deal with Kalista when there isn't point and click or very fast-moving CC available. I don't want to have her strong again; she's easily my least favorite champion to play against when in an overpowered state.

The TrentDec 22, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Taco Kat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000a0001,timestamp=2018-12-22T17:42:50.672+0000)

It's next to impossible to deal with Kalista when there isn't point and click or very fast-moving CC available. I don't want to have her strong again; she's easily my least favorite champion to play against when in an overpowered state.

is this a joke? Not only is Kalista in a horrible position right now, She's one of the easiest adcs to cc. First of all, her dashes move in one direction leaving her easier to hit with a skill shot if you just aim in that direction. Meanwhile in high elo an adc could dash a different way to dodge something or just simply click to walk the other way. Not to mention she can't cancle her auto attacks. Kalista's passive is literally only good for chasing people and running away from people with no cc like Shyvana, Trynd, etc. Can't believe you just tried to make her sound op lmaooo. Deadass she's so easy to cc too so I don't understand. Bot lane is filled with champions that counter her cc wise. Lulu, Thresh, Pyke, Alistar, etc all destroy her. She relies super hard on her early game cheese damage with rend to bully her opponent before she just falls off the face of the game.

The Taco KatDec 23, 20182 votes

I didn't say she was strong right now at all; I said she's bullshit when she is strong. Without point and click CC, she'll likely be that much more of a balance issue. Note that two of the four supports you listed HAVE that point and click CC, and Thresh's flay has a pretty decent AoE (which also counters her). Pyke is the only one there that doesn't fit one of those two qualifications, but if you're going by champion.gg metrics, one of the best matchups for her is Pyke with a 49.08% WR (bearing in mind that she has a 46.31% WR by those same metrics). She is certainly in an okayish state balance-wise right now, but she was a nightmare in the past for a reason. If you get rid of one of her hardest counters, you in turn make her strong—how strong I don't know, but you risk making her FotM once again.

I didn't know that her linear jumping makes her worthless. Guess those dumb guys in Worlds 2017 could've made use of that information during the Ardent meta.

Also, I wouldn't consider her Rend "cheese" damage. It's an ability and it does what it is intended to do, so she is a lane bully, nothing special about that. Her mid-game isn't fantastic, but she's also had a particularly strong late-game because it's difficult to touch her then.

The TrentDec 23, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Taco Kat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=000a000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-23T00:49:25.839+0000)

I didn't say she was strong right now at all; I said she's bullshit when she is strong. Without point and click CC, she'll likely be that much more of a balance issue. Note that two of the four supports you listed HAVE that point and click CC, and Thresh's flay has a pretty decent AoE (which also counters her). Pyke is the only one there that doesn't fit one of those two qualifications, but if you're going by champion.gg metrics, one of the best matchups for her is Pyke with a 49.08% WR (bearing in mind that she has a 46.31% WR by those same metrics). She is certainly in an okayish state balance-wise right now, but she was a nightmare in the past for a reason. If you get rid of one of her hardest counters, you in turn make her strong—how strong I don't know, but you risk making her FotM once again.

I didn't know that her linear jumping makes her worthless. Guess those dumb guys in Worlds 2017 could've made use of that information during the Ardent meta.

Also, I wouldn't consider her Rend "cheese" damage. It's an ability and it does what it is intended to do, so she is a lane bully, nothing special about that. Her mid-game isn't fantastic, but she's also had a particularly strong late-game because it's difficult to touch her then.

Her jumping was nerfed after worlds 2017 to make it useless. You're literally just talking about things you know nothing about and it's coming off as super cringeyyy.

kargishDec 22, 20181 votes

The main reason why assassins prioritise the item 3147 item 3142 is because CDR is an assassins second most valued stat.

AR URFDec 22, 20182 votes

{quoted}

The main reason why assassins prioritise the is because CDR is an assassins second most valued stat.

Or the fact that one gives you an empowered auto attack and the other gives increase MS? So go in, burst and escape. Or use it to catch up to your target.

kargishDec 22, 20181 votes

That's nothing compared to being able to get a free spell shield, plus a little bit of health just in case.

If item 3814 gave CDR then it would be picked a lot more over item 3142 . It's the ultimate middle finger move against a large roster of champions, that mostly only relie on CC or peel to stop assassins Alistar Azir Fiddlesticks Janna Ivern Lissandra Lux Lulu Morgana Nami Syndra Thresh TwistedFate Varus Veigar Zyra

King LegoDec 22, 20181 votes

If we didn't have point and click CCs, then we'd probably break our necks because of how much we are trying to keep our eyes on champions jumping around like crazy.

Not to mention that this would give birth to the mobility meta. The team with the most mobile champions win.

Fire BlaustoiseDec 22, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=epmPl9vW,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-12-22T09:35:21.260+0000)

I used to think that mechanic was stupid. Like how would just point and click root and use his other abilties. Same with ult.

Guess what ? You were right. This mechanic is f*cking stupid.

The only way to really combat all these dashes is by making more champions have point and click rooting.

No. The only way is to use your f*cking hands. The issue with skillshot is only one thing : it recquire skill.

Besides wouldn't it make sense with all the dashes and immobile champions? The game can't be balanced around immobile champions and champions with dashes if you want the game to last virtually forever and remain in a healthy state.

No, even with all these dashes, it make no sens to keep all these skilless abilities. Just cause bad player can't

It would also open up for different build paths and making a more viable options.

This wouldnt change anything. You can't know when these point and clicker will cc u. So against malza & cie you will just item 3140

Cause right now any assassin is going to build item 3147 and item 3142 before considering item 3814 .

Ofc they don't considere EoN. This item is meh, and lethality isnt strong atm.

In fact I really don't see anyone build that item anymore. The only reason to build is when the enemy team are all squishy champs and you want the extra lethality.

[sg-lux-2]

in conclusion, please bring back the high risk aspect of the game.

Totaly unrelated to your thread. How do you link point and clic hard cc, EoN, High mobility and high risk ???

And again, never say this enough but point and clic cc counter immobile champs hella harder than mobile ones.

BrightWîngsDec 23, 20181 votes

at least Malzahar is his ult but Ryze in lane is so aids because there is really zero counter play to it it just happens even worse if ur a melee champ