I love how AD assassins....
Can one shot even after missing 2/3 of their abilities because of 
....
78 Comments
Hayaishi22 votesAP Assassins do it as well. Diana doesn't need her Q most of the time.
ValiantKiller6 votesAP Assassins do it as well. Diana doesn't need her Q most of the time.
Fizz can do it too even if he miss his R. They assassin for reason.
Ayzev23 votesThey assassin for reason.
Being able to miss important skillshots and still get their job done is not that reason.
ValiantKiller5 votesBeing able to miss important skillshots and still get their job done is not that reason.
Well most of assassin work like that, so don't blame duskblade and AD assassin on that. How many times i saw kat or fizz miss stuff yet able to melt people ?
Ryrynounet1 votesIf an ekko miss his Q he need to be really fed to be able to kill your by simply using his E, passive, liche bane. Or you played extremely bad and went into his R
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Ryvals,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-02T11:46:48.722+0000)
If an ekko miss his Q he need to be really fed to be able to kill your by simply using his E, passive, liche bane. Or you played extremely bad and went into his R
Still doing his job , even if he miss Q his E and liche bane able to burst squishy badly.
Ryrynounet1 votesI don't know how a 200 lich bane paired with an 140 + 40% ap can kill a squishy with about 1200-1500 hp (i'm talking about a early game, mid game) and ofc the passive of 140 + 80% ap. But I agree, in late game even when missing Q if the squishy has strictly 0 MR he can be killed (thought I play with hex-tech revolver and berzerker boots for that juicy E Q hex-tech thunderlord AA under 1.5 sec, aka 0 way to react they are already dead :>)
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Ryvals,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T14:36:31.906+0000)
I don't know how a 200 lich bane paired with an 140 + 40% ap can kill a squishy with about 1200-1500 hp (i'm talking about a early game, mid game) and ofc the passive of 140 + 80% ap. But I agree, in late game even when missing Q if the squishy has strictly 0 MR he can be killed (thought I play with hex-tech revolver and berzerker boots for that juicy E Q hex-tech thunderlord AA under 1.5 sec, aka 0 way to react they are already dead :>)
And i think that is the whole point here, most of assassin can't miss in mid and early game then able to burst you down unless it very late game and you got no resistance to stop them
Ryrynounet1 votesMy problem as someone who love to play high dammage champion (that feeling when you friends are telling you that you're a really good supp with always a high vision score, nice peeler and good strategist omegalul) is that a snowbally champ should be rewarded by getting kills early to translate this in a gold adventage for your team and then proceed to work hard and still keep that adventage to end the game as fast as possible.
Like in season 4 to summary where the assassins would get bad in late game (still able to catch isolated target, but by the time players were always packed and stacked) now they are designed to get in and then escape the fight or split hard (It's extremely interesting in late to deal 1K to a sand's castle by using E on 
:>>>) The late game should be a way to punish bad snowbally players that didn't managed to get an adventage early, actually if the assassins manage to go late they can literally break fights, that's worse for champions like 
which will only farm to get items if they are behind then proceed to stomp your team and that's disgusting
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Sir Ryvals,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T19:28:08.842+0000)
My problem as someone who love to play high dammage champion (that feeling when you friends are telling you that you're a really good supp with always a high vision score, nice peeler and good strategist omegalul) is that a snowbally champ should be rewarded by getting kills early to translate this in a gold adventage for your team and then proceed to work hard and still keep that adventage to end the game as fast as possible.
Like in season 4 to summary where the assassins would get bad in late game (still able to catch isolated target, but by the time players were always packed and stacked) now they are designed to get in and then escape the fight or split hard (It's extremely interesting in late to deal 1K to a sand's castle by using E on
That what game called balance around being weak early but strong champion later.
aaaustindestroy11 votesIt's kinda impossible to really "miss" anything on someone as Katarina, unless they walked away from the daggers like they should. Then again Kat's meant to be an AP nuking device, and is still pretty feast or famine because of the passive. If she's behind and her team doesn't help her get back into the game, then there's no chance of a team with Kat to win, unless the Kat is an absolute god.
ValiantKiller1 votesIt's kinda impossible to really "miss" anything on someone as Katarina, unless they walked away from the daggers like they should. Then again Kat's meant to be an AP nuking device, and is still pretty feast or famine because of the passive. If she's behind and her team doesn't help her get back into the game, then there's no chance of a team with Kat to win, unless the Kat is an absolute god.
Well you get what i mean, it not problem of Duskblade or AD assassin it problem of assassin and how they should work.
Meep Man16 votesI feel like Riot is slowly creating a "minimum impact" item for every class that just says "Well, even if you screw up everything, at least you have this to boost your damage/durability/impact by X amount."
AD Assassin-
AP Assassin- 
Ranged AP Assassin/Mage- 
Hybrid Burst- 
Solo Tanks- 
Enchanters- 
Support Tanks- 
Bruisers- 
Crit Marksman- 
(its still in the process of being forged)
Caster Marksman- 
On-hit Carries- 
Just hit that active/passive proc, and you have already dealt some decent damage from the source of the proc and the proc itself! Or gained a big boost of durability! Or healed a lot! Whatever! You have this item, so you are instantly improved by a ton even if you suck! The strengths of these classes basically revolve around the strengths of these items as well as some impact from keystones/runes. It's kind of saddening.
Edit: The more I keep going the more I realize almost every "style of play" has one item that's just like "If you don't buy me, you're playing a weakened version of this character". Of course, you can name 1-3 champions for every class that break these rules, but everyone else? It applies. And you know what!? For those champions that do break the rules, unless they just have some insane other item synergy like Zhonya's champions, they just feel awkward to build.
Psybicilin5 votesIt would be nice if Riot took a page out of the Dota 2 item book. I'm not saying to add full blown 3 tier Necronomicon, but more active items and less stat stick items would be appreciated. Support is fine, but I'm looking more at damage dealers/carries.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesRiot has been on a vendetta against active items for very long cuz bad and armless players are likely to not use it properly.
SwiftKitten882 votes[{quoted}](name=The God of Rams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-01T20:41:46.714+0000)
Crit Marksman-
is not for crit marksmen... its an assasin item...
ADC are designed to do sustained damage not burst
100% crit is a guarenteed burst, and outside of rare cases like 
it should not be rushed..
if riot was trying to make a new crit item for marksmen.. then they royally fucked up.. becuase that item is going to be used most effectived on AD assasins and champs like 
and most champs who buy
Apocalypsic6 votesAll marksmen that build into crit rush this item now.
Chalze3 votes[{quoted}](name=The God of Rams,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-01T20:41:46.714+0000)
I feel like Riot is slowly creating a "minimum impact" item for every class that just says "Well, even if you screw up everything, at least you have this to boost your damage/durability/impact by X amount."
AD Assassin-
Just hit that active/passive proc, and you have already dealt some decent damage from the source of the proc and the proc itself! Or gained a big boost of durability! Or healed a lot! Whatever! You have this item, so you are instantly improved by a ton even if you suck! The strengths of these classes basically revolve around the strengths of these items as well as some impact from keystones/runes. It's kind of saddening.
Edit: The more I keep going the more I realize almost every "style of play" has one item that's just like "If you don't buy me, you're playing a weakened version of this character". Of course, you can name 1-3 champions for every class that break these rules, but everyone else? It applies. And you know what!? For those champions that do break the rules, unless they just have some insane other item synergy like Zhonya's champions, they just feel awkward to build.
Completely agree to this. That being said, LoL is now more or less catered towards a new younger audience, a younger audience who can't maturely deal with their own lack of skill. I remember someone before called it "childproof" in the sense that young children who do miss everything still can feel like they made an impact. LoL needs to be way less forgiving so that plays are actually properly rewarding for the effort used. I really miss the days of being blown away by a pro player making the first 'trademarked' play like the insec kick because LoL was way less forgiving so seeing that pulled off had the most impact. Now everyone can do it, and although it's not a bad thing, the stakes are far FAR lower if you fail it now than before.
Pubbi15 votesYeah, I don't think Duskblade's damage is the problem, assassins just aren't healthy for the game in general in their current state. And that's coming from someone who only plays assassins now.
The Space Cowboy6 votesYa it’s only under 200 damage. Not the source of the one shot.
AR URF3 votes[{quoted}](name=The Space Cowboy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-01T22:37:00.878+0000)
Ya it’s only under 200 damage. Not the source of the one shot.
200 damage is a lot when the item is rushed. I'd estimate champions to be at 1k health at that stage of the game. maybe less.
The Space Cowboy8 votesI take your point. It does start around 100 damage but it still adds up. However a rushed ludens will proc about the same and will add more to a kits rotation damage.
Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votesDoesn't Duskblade add Pen on-top of Raw AD on top of an AA passive?
I don't understand how Luden's adds more damage to a kits rotation then Dusk.
The Space Cowboy1 votesIt’s a sweeping claim and there are bound to be exceptions... but most mages will have 3-4 abilities that scale on ap. Most ad champs have an ability or two that don’t scale or are utility only. Also generally ap ratios are higher than ad. Finally the raw ap stat is higher. The lethality is only going to increase damage about 10% and the 60 extra ap vs the ad on dusk will add more dps.
Sexy Jack Rabbit1 votesAre AP Ratio's higher then AD ratio's?
Off the top of my head alone I can know for a fact that LOTS of AD champions have spells that scale much higher than those of what could considered their AP Counterparts. Add on top of that AD adds to Basic Attacks and not just Abilities.
You need to take into account what clarifies as a rotation PER CHAMPION.
The highest AP ratio in the Game belongs to Annie is around 500% whereas the highest AD belongs to like MF or something around 1500%.
But you need to take into account that MF's rotation WILL guarantee included AA's and Annie's won't.
I think it's a little TOO BROAD a claim to say Luden's adds more damage to a rotation then Dusk.
Great Ozymandius2 votesThe bigger problem is that tanks can't soak damage now. It used to be the case that a 1v1 tank versus assassin strongly favored the tank, even if the assassin was somewhat ahead. Now most assassins, with their standard builds, can usually win a 1v1 versus the tank.
The only tanks that do remotely well now are those that succeed by building damage or by dominating lane. No tanks do well because of how they soak damage in teamfights.
We are in an assassin meta and tanks still suck. That should be an alarm for RIOT.
AmazoX5 votes[{quoted}](name=AR URF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-07-01T17:51:19.307+0000)
Can one shot even after missing 2/3 of their abilities because of
Video or false.
Hemulen Magi4 votesDon't even need to burst as an AD assassin. I just built 
as 
and slaughtered everyone on a team with two armor stacking tanks. I could still ult onto their squishies and 1-shot them with practically no counterplay. Defensive options against AD simply blow. Armor shredding AD items are stronger counters to armor stacking tanks than magic damage is. I could have also built infinity edge with conqueror and shredded everyone with true damage, or even a regular lethality build with a 
thrown in at the end. Armor needs huge buffs and APCs need DPS mage items to let them deal with tanks too. What items could a 
build in order to shred through a tank with 
? The answer is nothing would be sufficient. Meanwhile AD autoattackers have multiple options to smash right through or at least stay even against 
. Full AD vs tanks/juggernauts should be a loss.
AmazoX3 votes[{quoted}](name=Hemulen Magi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=boQGHPF9,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-07-01T23:17:41.605+0000)
Don't even need
That's a horrible comparison.
Ceazaru3 votesHasn't Duskblade been pretty strong to broken since it came out?
BrightWîngs3 votescan counter the entire item and then some with just 
....
PrinceOfStorms7 votesNot sure if stupid or just ignorant.
Seeker's Armguard is a trash item. This is an objective fact. You can't counter anyone with it.
BrightWîngs6 votesNot sure if stupid or just ignorant.
Seeker's Armguard is a trash item. This is an objective fact. You can't counter anyone with it.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? are you mental? the item alone legit gives 45 armor once stacked ( not hard to stack either ) with 2 lethality items AD assassins have 36 lethality which is flat armor pen but you have 45 with a 1100 gold item that isnt even finished 2 lethality items cost 5,800 gold and you spent 1,100 like what do you want? one item isnt gonna save you from playing like an idiot.
PrinceOfStorms5 votesAnd rushing it is going to put you really behind as a mage, because you don't have a mana item.
BrightWîngs5 votesAnd rushing it is going to put you really behind as a mage, because you don't have a mana item.
and you're playing an AP champ you scale SOOOOO HARD and buying means its way harder for them to snowball off of you if an assassin cant snowball its hard for them to close out the game
PrinceOfStorms1 votesand you're playing an AP champ you scale SOOOOO HARD and buying means its way harder for them to snowball off of you
Seeker's Armguard is actual hot garbage. You might have had a point if it has the Zhonya's passive (multi-use instead of single use like Stopwatch) but no. The small amount of stats that you get from Armguard won't actually save you against any assassin all in, and while you rush your Zhonya's, the assassin will snowball off of you even if you don't get a kill because you will have effectively zero waveclear, due to Armguard giving you next to no AP, and no mana regeneration so you can't afford to spam your abilities like a Zed or Talon can.
Imagine if Zeal didn't have any attack speed on it, but still cost the same amount of gold. That's about how bad it feels to buy Armguard.
BrightWîngs1 votesSeeker's Armguard is actual hot garbage. You might have had a point if it has the Zhonya's passive (multi-use instead of single use like Stopwatch) but no. The small amount of stats that you get from Armguard won't actually save you against any assassin all in, and while you rush your Zhonya's, the assassin will snowball off of you even if you don't get a kill because you will have effectively zero waveclear, due to Armguard giving you next to no AP, and no mana regeneration so you can't afford to spam your abilities like a Zed or Talon can.
Imagine if Zeal didn't have any attack speed on it, but still cost the same amount of gold. That's about how bad it feels to buy Armguard.
Bro it's to help with early game 45 armor early game is a lot but whatever believe what you want to believe if you want to keep making excuses go ahead it's not gonna help you that's all I'm saying.
PrinceOfStorms1 votesIt's not even 45 armor when you buy it ffs - if you have two cloths and an amp tome it costs 400g to gain no stats.
Mages need buffs. This is fact. So one way to do it is to give them safety against the assassins and bruisers that dive them with ease by making Armguard cuck AD champions as hard as Hexdrinker cucks AP champions.
I'm saying that either Armguard be buffed until it's as good at protecting you from AD champions as Hexdrinker is against AP champions, or Hexdrinker's lifeline passive should be removed to bring it in line with Armguard.
PB4UAME2 votesAnd of that 5,800, only a maximum of 900g is spent on lethality, if you count those items passives and actives as utterly and entirely worthless. In actuality, the lethlaity is essentially free on those items from a cost efficiency standpoint as they are already beyond cost effective without lethality from just their passives/actives and the other stats those items offer.
BrightWîngs3 votesAnd of that 5,800, only a maximum of 900g is spent on lethality, if you count those items passives and actives as utterly and entirely worthless. In actuality, the lethlaity is essentially free on those items from a cost efficiency standpoint as they are already beyond cost effective without lethality from just their passives/actives and the other stats those items offer.
this would be valid if they didnt actually need to buy the full item to get 36 lethality its not free you just said it would be 900 gold nor would it be 900 gold for 36 lethality or even 18 
gives 10 lethality and costs 1100 gold the same price of your but you counter the entire lethality passives of TWO lethality items and then some remember it gives you 45 armor what you guys want is to not be able to die to an AD assassin at all OF COURSE they will still do damage but they do FAR less damage when you have if you couldnt die there would be no point to assassins they NEED kills
things you need to do when going against an AD assassin is get and respect their early game they are much stronger than you early and if you dont respect it youre gonna die know their CDs for example 
ealry on his shadow is on line a 20 second CD this not only makes him SUPER vulnerable to ganks but means hes down one of his major abilities to get onto you and also when he uses his shadow to poke hes gonna throw out his Qs so try and fake him out and dodge the Qs its hard because they are fast but its not impossible either
oh and I completely forgot go resolve secondary and get bone plating makes it hard for him to do a ton of damage to you and you could even go second wind that way if you do take poke you will heal a little bit of it back
Vekkna1 votesStop apologizing for AD assassins. Talon gets more ability damage from one longsword than any mage gets from an Amp Tome, unless their combo has higher than 3.05 AP ratio. If you equalize for damage per gold, mages only break even once their total AP ratio hits 3.8.
I don't think your mind will be changed by showing you the math, nor do I think you'll look it up yourself. Suffice it to say, AD mids have vastly higher base effective health than mages and get vastly more damage scaling from early recalls than mages. I did the math once, and if Lux spammed E on Zed without missing from full to zero mana with typical starting stats, the Zed would not die.
Seeker's doesn't stop Zed or Talon from killing you 100-0 with a Dirk. Why? Because they don't even need the lethality with how much damage they get from base + ratios. And Ignite is dealing 25%+ of a mage's health bar from level 1-18, and armor isn't doing shit against that.
BrightWîngs1 votesStop apologizing for AD assassins. Talon gets more ability damage from one longsword than any mage gets from an Amp Tome, unless their combo has higher than 3.05 AP ratio. If you equalize for damage per gold, mages only break even once their total AP ratio hits 3.8.
I don't think your mind will be changed by showing you the math, nor do I think you'll look it up yourself. Suffice it to say, AD mids have vastly higher base effective health than mages and get vastly more damage scaling from early recalls than mages. I did the math once, and if Lux spammed E on Zed without missing from full to zero mana with typical starting stats, the Zed would not die.
Seeker's doesn't stop Zed or Talon from killing you 100-0 with a Dirk. Why? Because they don't even need the lethality with how much damage they get from base + ratios. And Ignite is dealing 25%+ of a mage's health bar from level 1-18, and armor isn't doing shit against that.
I'm not apologizing for anything talon gets more ability damage because is strong early and you scale.... and most mages have very little base armor thats why is so important for lane phase because you lack armor if you lack armor you take more physical damage this shouldn't be needed to explain and you're just being dishonest saying they will still 100-0 you with just a shit gives 10 lethality and 25 ad gives you 45 armor only way you're getting 100-0 is because you clearly arnt doing anything but standing there you still need to use your brain and on top of that most mid mages have some form of defensive ability these you are clearly not using
gets a shield and a root
gets a shield
gets a sheild
can push you away
can use W to push you away
will all of these save your life in every situation? no but on top of that you normally take things like 
and you always have 
as well AND FOR THE LOVE OF GOD GO RESOLVE SECONDARY your goal isnt to beat an ad assassin in lane your goal is to not die if you do beat them in lane even better but thats not your goal your goal is to not die and scale
you simply need to play smarter and pay attention
PrinceOfStorms1 votesI'm not apologizing for anything talon gets more ability damage because is strong early and you scale
Not if you get dicked on by an assassin mid that has better waveclear than you at nearly all stages of the game. Even if you don't die, they will shove the wave (which you can't do anything about because you build Seeker's first item like a dumbass), then roam and snowball.
BrightWîngs1 votesNot if you get dicked on by an assassin mid that has better waveclear than you at nearly all stages of the game. Even if you don't die, they will shove the wave (which you can't do anything about because you build Seeker's first item like a dumbass), then roam and snowball.
you actually just dont know what youre talking about you can still shove you clearly are new to the game so im not gonna hold it against you the no items early on help you with wave clear 
this gives you mana but unless youre wasting your abilities instead of last hitting with autos properly and 
only help with that and gives you mana regen and on top of that most mages take mana flow band they just dont have better wave clear the only real AD assassin that has good wave clear is 
assassins like have to use his shadow to wave clear better than you which he doesnt want to do since is on a long CD early level
only champs i can see that whould be hard to wave clear is
and when they roam you shove the wave punish them not being there and ping MAI like crazy
trust me play the game more and try to make less excuses and take advice
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