It's 2016 and we still can't see ability costs, cooldowns, scaling, really anything about abilities

Kr1sys·Jan 27, 2016·280 votes·7,831 views

Until we're in a game(unless you use a third party site), and yeah, we still don't have a sandbox mode.

119 Comments

Nanuk PihoqahiakJan 27, 201655 votes

Sandbox mode is the biggest thing for me. For a game that tries so hard to push competitive play, you'd figure they'd have a mode where you can freely test every combination of items you want.

101100111000Jan 27, 201677 votes

For a game that tries to push its competitive scene, you'd think that we wouldn't have to resort to the wiki just to figure out AP and AD scalings on abilities.

Or cooldowns.

Or almost eveyrthing.

Lao Fu the TigerJan 27, 201610 votes

There actually is a gameinfo section of the website here that shows this information.

It's just seldom used and has some bugs occasionally.

Kr1sysJan 27, 201631 votes

It also requires you to actually use this site instead of it being housed within the game itself.

UrPalAlJan 27, 20169 votes

Asking for client features is honestly pointless, we're about to get a completely new client, so I would honestly guess Riot doesn't plan on making any new changes anytime soon until then, since it would basically be a complete waste of time.

The technology just isn't there yet man.

Velzard of KozJan 27, 20164 votes

Not literally pointless. Though OP might have meant it like that, these ideas might very easily be used while designing the new client. Even If someone directly said they want it in this client, Riot might still happend to read it and automatically schedule it to the new client TODO list. Also he is mainly speaking about game generally, AFAIK Riot reworks the launcher environment, it might not affect the in-game environment. So maybe he wants those features also in-game (I am not sure whether you can somehow actually see the scaling formula for abilities instead of the direct result for example).

Whut Thuh Jan 27, 20161 votes

it would take almost no coding at all just add more text to the already existing test files. no new files no new lines of code. just more text

UrPalAlJan 28, 20161 votes

"it would take almost no coding at all just add more text to the already existing test files. no new files no new lines of code. just more text"

wut. I didn't realize you were a professional coder and game designer, I guess you know best, silly me.

Whut Thuh Jan 28, 20161 votes

just saying it would be easy. didnt mean to offend anybody

DEmperor95Jan 28, 20161 votes

Even the website has incomplete info. It doesn't have anything about cooldowns and recharge timers on all champs.

UrPalAlJan 28, 20161 votes

This is true

DeathBurstJan 27, 20168 votes

It's incomplete and inaccurate, full of missing values and stuff like that. The wikia is just 10 times better. I'm not talking about bugs, I'm talking about straight up wrong or missing data, when getting this data is the reason you're going to this site in the first place.

NegusInParisJan 28, 20161 votes

Who owns the wiki? Riot?

101100111000Jan 28, 20161 votes

It's all community-driven.

NegusInParisJan 28, 20161 votes

Well, why don't Riot just create their own "wiki" on their own website and also why do you have to rely on non-Riot ran websites to get KEY information about the match?

101100111000Jan 28, 20161 votes

...that's the point the OP is making...

iamleburkJan 27, 201624 votes

Yea there was something the other day that revealed Riot had the most revenue of any PC game, this one game making more than Clash of Clans (which we all know is fucking huge).

Riot no longer has the excuse of being a startup company. This is the type of shit they should have started working on in Season 3, in this area Riot is being extremely incompetent.

Sandbox Mode and Replays are so big for a competitive game, i have no idea how they have managed to ignore them for so long. And then you had the post a couple months ago about "Not adding sandbox mode because its toxic", which might have been the dumbest thing a person with experience in this field could possibly say.

Kr1sysJan 27, 20164 votes

{quoted}

Yea there was something the other day that revealed Riot had the most revenue of any PC game, this one game making more than Clash of Clans (which we all know is fucking huge).

Riot no longer has the excuse of being a startup company. This is the type of shit they should have started working on in Season 3, in this area Riot is being extremely incompetent.

Sandbox Mode and Replays are so big for a competitive game, i have no idea how they have managed to ignore them for so long. And then you had the post a couple months ago about "Not adding sandbox mode because its toxic", which might have been the dumbest thing a person with experience in this field could possibly say.

It's mostly because they tunnel vision their pro scene and the 'pros' don't need a sandbox mode or replays. They're already recording with 3rd party programs, VODs, etc.

iamleburkJan 27, 20168 votes

The pros certainly need it, i would argue that's part of the reason the west and the east still have such a gap. If people were able to practice their mechanics so often in sandbox mode or a team was able to replicated a team fight, that would be EXTREMELY helpful.

kile147Jan 27, 201611 votes

I still remember a pro accidentally bronze flashing into a wall during a game and the game casters saying, "and there's XX protesting the lack sandbox mode by demonstrating his need to practice flashing more"

TransgressorJan 27, 20165 votes

It's 2016 and the most popular PC game in history still doesn't offer 70% of its direct genre's competition.

Let that sink in.

mogonkJan 27, 20164 votes

But the third party sites are easily accessible and comprehensive.

So what's the actual negative impact that this has?

Kr1sysJan 27, 201615 votes

{quoted}

But the third party sites are easily accessible and comprehensive.

So what's the actual negative impact that this has?

It makes sense for like MMOs to host the info there, why can't this game provide that info for the champs in it?

Silents429Jan 27, 20163 votes

At the same time why is it made out like Riot is a huge failure for not implementing this by now? It's very low on the list of priorities. Opening a wiki won't kill you, and even with all that information in the client, the wiki always ends up being more detailed anyway.

101100111000Jan 27, 20164 votes

The wiki ends up being more detailed because individuals actually go and figure this stuff out themselves, and nobody exactly tells them some of these wacky interactions until after the fact. Riot not only has the resources to just give us statistics to every single champion ability at a glance, but also define intended item interactions and "special cases" (e.g. Azir and almost everything that can possibly go weird). We have to rely on a wiki to figure out information Riot has but doesn't present.

Then there's Sandbox mode.

I mean c'mon. It's sandbox mode. Practice flashes, aiming skillshots, rolling over minions, stupid theorycrafting builds. There's so much crap we could do with a sandbox mode that it's ridiculous to not implement it. The only real reason to not do it would be because of the way the game is coded, which, if that's the case, then whatever, leave it be.

Silents429Jan 27, 20161 votes

Yes I know why it's more detailed, but even if Riot has all the information in game, there will always end up being more information in the Wiki, with or without a sandbox mode. The Wiki will always come out on top, and will probably still end up being the primary source of information.

While keeping with this same idea, imagine how much extra work needs to be done on Riots end now having all the information, like how abilities interact with everything else and what not, Someone needs to keep these changes updated constantly increasing there workload. This isn't a problem when you have millions of players keeping things up to date and testing things.

The only real reason to not do it would be because of the way the game is coded, which, if that's the case, then whatever, leave it be.

I don't think people quite understand what it means to add a mode to a game with all that freedom, for one thing it's more load on the servers now to add what will likely be a heavily used setup, and on the other, it will allow easier time finding exploits to abuse, testing hacks, or finding out any other negative aspects Riot wouldn't want people doing.

I know this wouldn't be all it's used for, Riot knows the point of being able to test builds, team comps, jungle clears, and all sorts of junk, but this is a huge aspect of the game to manage, and if off the mark even slightly it could cause massive problems with the game itself.

I'm not against any of the additions, but everyone thinks this is something Riot can just whip up in a week and call it a day, and that's actually somewhat insulting to how hard they actually work to give us what we do get.

Crush my ballsJan 27, 20164 votes

While keeping with this same idea, imagine how much extra work needs to be done on Riots end now having all the information, like how abilities interact with everything else and what not, Someone needs to keep these changes updated constantly increasing there workload. This isn't a problem when you have millions of players keeping things up to date and testing things.

Why shouldn't that extra work be expected of the developers of the most popular game in the world, and probably among the most profitable? Why can't Riot work in tandem with players who record these interactions and implement them in the game? This shouldn't be a black or white issue. Displaying, at the least, BASIC, concrete statistics like damage ratios, cooldowns, how abilities scale per level, should not require much effort . Those are not disputed, unless they are changed by patches. Of course I can't speak for whatever they're doing as they release more skins and champs without ironing out something so fundamental, but this is how it is now. I don't often draw comparisons between League and Dota, but holy Christ, the tooltip department of Dota 2 annihilates League's. Putting aside the option to see how your abilities generally scale and interact with themselves and others PER LEVEL, you can hold "alt" while hovering over certain abilities and get even more detailed information, about the kind of stuff you would see in a wiki article. Do the developers of Dota 2 work less hard than League's? After all, they finished re-releasing the game in a new engine, along with a client overhaul, months ago.

If you want to be extra cynical and paranoid about this, it could be that it is because they want people to visit third-party websites that they don't include such information in-game, take away whatever connotations you want from that. Unlikely as that may be, the only other reason I see is laziness/incompetency. I don't need be a game developer to know that precise, expansive tooltip implementation is fundamental, as it is in Dota 2. This isn't a matter of different development philosophies; it's one providing a faultless boon to the overall experience of playing, while the other has to consult a wiki article to see how Draven's axes interact with the player's position and movement after it is thrown. If that information wasn't just written in his ability description in-game, it would certainly be available via the "alt" key in Dota 2. It's a pretty important thing to know about when generally playing Draven. And let's not get started on Stand Aside's varied, yet unmarked interactions.

Simply put, there is no justifying vague or missing information about such subtle, yet important mechanics. But never mind that; we still can't see how most abilities scale per level, nor can we see their damage ratios. Providing that much would be a small, yet significant step in the right direction.

KnoyleJan 27, 20164 votes

Also in the previews of the store, can we get some updated graphics? I swear shaco is using his old model still and it's in Dominion.

Arcade AndrewJan 27, 20163 votes

It's because riot is more focused on reducing toxic behavior. Which is why they removed the ability to see an enemy's honor Ribbons/border rewards -_-

I don't even care about border rewards anymore. The only reason I wanted them was to strike fear into the enemy team that didn't have them, but now? Only my team can see that I was silver, and I can see my team is border less which means I'm probably gunna lose...

FeathermaneJan 27, 201634 votes

[{quoted}](name=Arcade Andrew,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=enpKyLJi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-27T07:47:09.431+0000)

It's because riot is more focused on reducing toxic behavior. Which is why they removed the ability to see an enemy's honor Ribbons/border rewards -_-

I don't even care about border rewards anymore. The only reason I wanted them was to strike fear into the enemy team that didn't have them, but now? Only my team can see that I was silver, and I can see my team is border less which means I'm probably gunna lose...

Hey, man, by having a silver border you strike fear into your team's hearts. :D

rtbf225618241Jan 27, 20161 votes

No, but people can use your rank against you and seeing a Platinum in a Silver game isn't exactly uplifting for the enemy team, even if his MMR is low cuz he's bad.

SpderManJan 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

No, but people can use yor rank against you and seeing a Platinum in a Silver game isn't exactly uplifting for the enemy team, even if his MMR is low cuz he's bad.

had this happen to me. low plat duoed with unranked in my second game of silver 1(got demoted after the loss), he picked leblanc and destroyed everyone. hard to be mad at him/her since they apologized to us in post game chat

rtbf225618241Jan 27, 20163 votes

Apologized for what? Destroying someone with LeBlanc?

SkyBlade79Jan 29, 20161 votes

You can't see the enemy team's borders in the loading screen :)

LolipoppersJan 27, 20163 votes

Riot has already stated that they will not be producing a sandbox mode.

DrCyanideJan 27, 201611 votes

And then they doubled back on that statement after seeing the community outrage, instead going with it not being a priority at this time.

iamleburkJan 27, 20169 votes

Which is also fucking stupid, it should have been a priority three years ago. I've seen this before, a team being very good at game design and very bad at everything else.. It doesn't work out, and is truly just an embarrassment for a company as big and as rich as Riot is right now.

FlippyGoneTrippyJan 27, 20163 votes

Keep in mind Riot has a new client in the works. Rather than making a thread filled with passive-aggressive animosity towards Riot make a thread requesting that your desired information appear in the new client. I do agree with you.. That doesn't mean I have to be a Ashe about it.

La BarbotteJan 27, 20163 votes

they explained why they wont give us sandbox mode, we are dicks, and we will start to expect people to master champions before playing them in games, when we see bad lee sin ward jumps, insecs, bad anivia walls, bad kiting mechanics, missed smite, bad cs everything will go into rage and <<go to sandbox mode>> toxicity, thats why

Sir FuzziJan 27, 20163 votes

Toxic behavior is a truth of the internet, not a thing they can just whitewash or change.

Blue Moon WolfJan 27, 20163 votes

6 seasons in and Wukong's passive still doesn't tell you the amount of armor/MR it gives you whatsoever. you literally have to keep your eye on the stat when an enemy shows up to know what you are getting. It's not like it would be a huge buff since it only activates with visible enemies to begin with.

UB3R 1337 H4XJan 27, 20162 votes

You can turn on ability costs in the options menu, it is there it is just disabled by default.

SpongebobIsLifeJan 27, 20163 votes

that's not what is referring to. He means if you look up a champion on the champion page or in the store, you can't see any of the scalings or a lot of the tooltips for them.

DrCyanideJan 27, 20168 votes

Their point is before the game starts, and better details in game.

Say you Queue up for ARAM and get some changing your so unfamiliar with you don't even know what they scale with. You want to pick decent runes, but you can't know without minimizing the game and opening up some other website. Then once in game, you don't know if that AP scaling on a move is 5% or 50% or 95%, you just know you've got an AP Scaling. AP Kha'zix isn't really the best choice.

Kr1sysJan 27, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Their point is before the game starts, and better details in game.

Say you Queue up for ARAM and get some changing your so unfamiliar with you don't even know what they scale with. You want to pick decent runes, but you can't know without minimizing the game and opening up some other website. Then once in game, you don't know if that AP scaling on a move is 5% or 50% or 95%, you just know you've got an AP Scaling. AP Kha'zix isn't really the best choice.

Yep!

BiG PaPa530Jan 27, 20161 votes

I honestly don't understand what a sandbox mode would do/accomplish. You can play a custom game and practice last hitting. You would have to have 1 bot on the map, but you can go to a different lane as them.

You can try new builds and see how they work just as well in a customs.

FortisDominusJan 27, 20166 votes

you can try out different builds that will cost no money and practice your champions combos by setting cdr to about 90%. yea you can try new builds in a custom, but who wants to wait 40 minutes to get enough gold to get all the items you want. Please think a little

BiG PaPa530Feb 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

you can try out different builds that will cost no money and practice your champions combos by setting cdr to about 90%. yea you can try new builds in a custom, but who wants to wait 40 minutes to get enough gold to get all the items you want. Please think a little

so sandbox mode would be like being able to mod things? why would you want 90% cd. its not possible in the normal environment of the game anyway. you can probably practice hitting keys on the Microsoft note pad

FortisDominusFeb 11, 20161 votes

did i not say "practice combos"? i did say that right? more CDR means i can practice the combo more often then i would if i was in a custom game.

Kr1sysFeb 27, 20161 votes

{quoted}

did i not say "practice combos"? i did say that right? more CDR means i can practice the combo more often then i would if i was in a custom game.

Don't feed the trolls. He has no clue. :)