Remember when everyone was up in arms over old AP Nid because her spears chunked you safely

At least old nid didnt have almost infinite range cc that also made them take true damage.

{quoted}

she literally has to jump into your face to get the full damage bonus.

here's how to beat zoe

crush her in lane because her laning is hot garbage

force 5v5s against her because her 5v5 teamfighting is hot garbage if you have any semblance of a good comp

if she shoots behind her back off, if she uses her ult to extend her range to you (because it's return range is still not very far in front of Zoe's position) cc her and blow her up.

her kit is basically designed to punish bad strategic play. if you're chasing people into the jungle, splitpushing without vision or trying to get random picks without vision, then a good zoe (and there are very few of those) will demolish you. if she's using multiple mobility summoners in a single fight you probably fucked up to begin with.

AP nid wasn't cancerous because of her poke. AP nid was cancerous because she could heal off any return poke AND had a good escape in cougar AND could all in you

I still don't understand why they thought putting summoner spells on a basic ability in any form was a good idea.

Oh boy, where do we start here?

1.) Reliability Nidalee's Q had hitbox 5 times the projectile size; she could whiff you completely and still literally one-shot you if you were a squishy.

2.) Range Nidalee's Q has 1500. Zoe has 800, or 1375 with ult (in which case impact delay is also increased).

3.) Safety If you catch Zoe in the midst of Q spam, she's dead. If you caught old Nidalee, too bad - huge heal and 3 second CD dash made sure you aren't killing her without a shitload of CC.

4.) "One-shot" potential Nidalee's Q was able to literally one-shot a squishy with Luden's proc (which was also way stronger back then). Zoe isn't killing anyone with just Q; if she bursts you down then I guarantee that she also hit a bubble beforehand and got off a passive + Lichbane proc.

5.) Clarity Zoe's Q missile might be hard to see in chaotic teamfights. Nidalee's spears were fucking invisible 80% of time, a bug Riot didn't bother with fixing until her rework. Because losing 90%+ of your HP from mid air was perfectly balanced and fun to play against.

6.) Window of opportunity All old Nidalee had to do was chuck a spear from fog over the wall - or hell, just out of vision range since Q range was long enough. Zoe has to telegraph her intent by throwing Q behind her, and if she portals in your face you know there's a delayed Q incoming so you have ample time to dodge unless bubbled first. Bubble also has a delay before sleep, meaning that if you hav mobility you can use it to get out of Q range or have a tank block for you. You can also punish her by sending a CC to her return destination if she uses R in plain sight.

She might be killing people fast (A burst mage killing a squishy with their entire rotation? Weird, I know - ADC are the only class that should be allowed to two-shot you from safe range), but she's nowhere near brainless cancer old AP Nid was. And I dare you to prove me wrong. Old Nid was such a braindead cancer with zero-risk insane-reward playstyle that blind spear-chucking was a viable tactics even in LCS, with other spells used only to escape. So, go in a game. Pick Zoe. Only spam your QR entire game while using bubble and W just to defend yourself. Then post a replay in which you win a game like that without getting carried and I'll gladly eat my words.

Because I can do that too? Remember when used to stun and 100-0 you befoe it wears offfrom permastealth with zero counterplay, and walk away with full HP due to her ultimate? Of course, I'll absolutely ignore the fact that old Eve could open with a 2 second point and click stun which also applied a Lichbane proc since it doesn't fit my agenda - both characters kill you fast from stealth, so it's enough to make a 1:1 comparison.

oh you having trouble with Zoe ? "Git good"... wait... you can't "git good"? then get on your team. Can't do that? get and . Can't do that either? Get . Unlike most champions her combo is hard and you can counter it. Fking hell even minions can block her combo. Just get a vs her and press R.

yeah and then if a word was so much breathed that implied that it was not be so healthy for the game

"git gud"

The main problem with Zoe's W is that using it to it's max potential requires her to already be winning (because she's getting you to blow summoners and item actives).

Her entire kit has a lot of outplay potential but she has a high skill floor and really only thrives in certain situations. In fact I'd go so far to say I'm not sure she's even pickable in competitive.

old nid = nuclear tip spear, healing, non ult gap closer, traps, bonus mv spd, cancer

zoe = nuclear stars, rng w, , cc breaks on dmg, fakeout gap closer.

wats like nid other then nuclear Q?

Yea, she deals a lot of dmg, let alone the very long stun that comes along with it.

Oh boy, the obligatory

>"Remember when [champion controversy]" >posts new champion icon

thread.

Not insulting you OP, it's just obligatory.

Remember when ignorant morons on the forums compared Nid Spears to Zoe when the abilities are nothing alike? Ya me too.

Javelin Toss TARGET RANGE: 1500

Paddle Star TARGET RANGE: 800

Zoe has to be MUCH closer to deal her damage, its also considerably more telegraphed. You see her cast her Q backwards guess what? Shes trying to poke you. "DURRR but she can just use ult" Ya and you can still attack her for 1 second. She also has no escape to speak of. By the time sleep actually CC's your target mid game you're probably already dead or close to it.

Lets not ignore the other MASSIVE DIFFERENCES, Nid's ability to heal and escape with dashes on her cat form/ bonus move speed in bushes. Zoe literally has no means of escape to speak of. The two are literally nothing alike save for the high damage on a poke spell. But when you lack the basic intelligence/critical thinking ability to see that i guess they must be exactly the same.

I love the fact that they let Zoes sleep even work on targets that have Morg's shield on them.. cause sleep isnt CC i guess...

My only trouble with Zoe is that if you get hit by a sleep bubble, you are pretty much 100% guaranteed dead no matter what.

I'd like to see some mechanic similar to Xerath's stun so the sleep isn't as ridiculous if you get point blanked by it. She otherwise seems rather fair; I can't really complain too much about her since I've only played against her and not as her yet.

She has exactly ONE damage spell in her entire kit excluding her passive, no sustain, only mobility aside from the RNG from her w is a fake-out used mostly for extending the range on her q & e; nope, nowhere close to old AP

Edit: Also, first week of her release in the middle of preseason, calm your tits Edit 2: Whoops, her e does damage as well, hadn't played her yet, honest mistake

She isn't safe though, her R exposes her to damage. I do agree her numbers need some tuning. Also her E is to reliable to use

Problem is Nid could through those from Fog of war and it would be basically invisible for the first bit of the cast. So you had less time to react.

Zoe just seems pretty overrated to me. Seems like a better/healthier version of LeBlanc is all.

Except that Zoe’s Q range is no longer than Ori ball. She has to use R to get extra range, in which case you just pound her with zed ult or something