Not everyone plays ranked. But you removing the capability and access to the data for normals is stupid. Not necessary at all, and is just another example of you clouding the game and its MMR system.
Ysayle22 votesAgreed, it is a very restrictive move for developers, and for players. While I cannot stand playing ranked because of ladder anxiety, I like seeing how I improve from normal game to normal game.
Policies like those cement normal games as a "joke" game mode where your improvement does not matter.
Now, while some players may see normal games in such a way, there are also many players who play normal games as they would play ranked, simply wanting to avoid the stressing ranking system, and would still enjoy to know that they are improving.
Kr1sys10 votes[{quoted}](name=Nora Valkyrie,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AciYGKgF,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-07-19T16:25:33.768+0000)
Policies like those cement normal games as a "joke" game mode where your improvement does not matter.
Now, while some players may see normal games in such a way, there are also many players who play normal games as they would play ranked, simply wanting to avoid the stressing ranking system, and would still enjoy to know that they are improving.
These points ^^^
If you stop supporting the modes, they become inferior and less 'serious'. i.e. Dominion (RIP)
Sassmast3r2 votesthere are also many players who play normal games as they would play ranked, simply wanting to avoid the stressing ranking system
Like me :3
CytheGuy13 votesTo all you people out there who just see us as "f***ing normies," I want you to understand this.
I don't play ranked because the atmosphere is too try-hard. I love playing off-meta things that let me have a blast without being flamed by both teams for ruining the game by discovering that my paper-perfect strategy didn't work in the field.
Winning isn't my first priority. I don't care what my win-rate is as long as I'm having fun in at least 50% of games.
Just because I don't like ranked doesn't mean I don't want to get better at the game (I want to get better). I just want to get better while having fun and discovering better techniques and strategies without some random player lecturing me. I'm here to have fun and get better, not sit in a lecture hall with a bunch of egocentric try-hards that don't understand how to have fun without winning. I've already tried explaining how to have fun when you lose to try-hards before. I'm not going to do it again. Oh and heads-up. Not everyone is like you. Stop acting like they are. You're not king of the world. If you were you'd be a tyrant and be overthrown withing a decade.
Leonerdo8 votesUnfortunately, it's not possible to get a non-biased discussion on this topic on these boards, because the people who care enough to browse and post on these boards are also likely to care enough to look up stats on third-party websites. But all the people who play normals just for fun and who don't interact with the game/community outside of the client; those people's voices aren't going to be heard.
Still, even if the number of negatively affected players is low (assuming that the silent majority isn't negatively affected), I think it's still a questionable change. I'm really not sure what Riot hopes to gain from the change. Is it just to keep "hard-core" players from looking up their teammates and abusing them for their match history in normals?
Phife7 votesWhy do you need to look at normal stats? whats the point of analyzing a non competitive match??? If you're doing that you should be playing ranked.
MrHaZeYo72 votesI mean I like to see the stats and how I did from my Norms matches
Ben Sharpio2 votesyou dont actually care about how you perform because it doesnt matter. Play ranked if you want to see your stats.
MrHaZeYo56 votesThat's not true at all lol.
Just because I favor norms over ranked doesn't mean I don't care how I do. A lot of the reason I don't continue in ranked is cause I want to keep improving before I feel I'm ready to move up.
JRobin312 votesYou can still view your personal match history for normal games right? So what's the problem?
MrHaZeYo15 votesOP.GG shows me things like CS/Min, KP, Dmg% where my client doesn't.
chipndip11 votesThese are stats that are more for people that care about their play quality. You don't. What's the issue?
MrHaZeYo15 votesWhy would you assume I don't care?
chipndip12 votesCause it's norms. Who cares?
It's a non-competitive environment. Data taken from norms is useless, so it's ALSO useless for rating your skill in this game. It's not just a League thing. Any game with a ranked ladder designates ranked to test your mettle and the "free play" modes to just chill out, practice, or just play the game.
You're not competitive in League. That's fine. Still, there's no need to keep competitive stats up for non-competitive players.
MrHaZeYo21 votesJust because I favor norms over ranked doesn't mean it's not worth keeping track of. It still shows me progressing.
What's the point of doing homework if to not prepare you for the test? Why grade the homework if it's not the test?
Rainbow Smarf4 votesyou are totaly right, especialy for the clouding part... well rito like to could thier shit just like cats love to burry thier shit with litter.
i mean the MMR system is super flawed and 100 times worst than the old elo system .. but w/e we are rito we do what we want to kill the game more and more years after years.
NiceTryVi2 votesWhy do you assume the people that play norms instead of ranked don't care? People still want to win, and it not being ranked isn't an excuse to throw or not care about the game.
chipndip11 votesBecause they don't. People don't want to win in norms. They just wanna chill out, not play against "try hards" or "mains", practice a bit, and play the game casually in norms. That's the norms mentality. Not MY mentality, but since I'm not playing ranked outside of sustaining D3 for the season, I just play the part.
NiceTryVi3 votesExcept for the tons of people on this thread that say they do care, you mean.
realDRdeal1 votesYou can simply divide CS by game time. takes two seconds. Same for KP (add kills and assists then divide by team kill total). Damage %: if you mean split between physical and magic then simple divide physical damage dealt by total; if you mean what percent you did divide your damage by the sum of the team. Still only takes a couple of seconds. Honestly though, these stats don't tell you much about how you played. Your CS/min might look low in a game where you constantly had to group as a team. A split pusher might have really bad KP.
MrHaZeYo1 votesYou're right I could spend 6 seconds to look at all of that or I could well refresh Op.GG in 2 and see it all.
Your right they don't tell the full story but they start to paint a picture.
JRobin312 votesSo you feel that you need certain aggregate statistics to help you improve and the client does not provide those statistics. I think that's a legitimate stance and that RIOT should address this issue.
knobblez1 votesI understand both sides to this...
Normal games have a different feel overall. I'd like to think everyone cares how they do to some degree unless in a custom game finding bugs or something. That being said, normal games are for that unspoken practice for maybe trying a new champ or new masteries/runes whereas ranked is for paying attention to deeper details. Perhaps you're seeking a middle ground? Either way, I feel you bro. Keep working at it and don't look too much into the 'Ranked' title. However you do this season, there's always next season. Go hard! It's doubtful you will go from silver to platinum in a season anyway, unless you truly belong there.
MrHaZeYo1 votesThx, I've been g5 for my 3rd season now, I only play ranked to get g5 lol. I prolly could get Plat if I actually tried to, I'm matched vs harder ppl in norms then I am in ranked currently if I'm playing solo.
Kr1sys12 votesWhy do you need to look at normal stats? whats the point of analyzing a non competitive match??? If you're doing that you should be playing ranked.
Maybe because I, and many others try stuff out in normals before going into ranked. Without stats to look back on I'll just try new stuff in ranked. Would you want everyone to follow suit and first time something in ranked?
Plus, I don't play ranked near as much as normals.
woodvsmurph2 votes
3TWarrior3 votespost game only lists the current game information.
Unless you want to write down a list of every viable off-meta strategy or in-meta unusual strategy and then consult it before every match in a 30 second window to choose your champion, attempt to counterpick your oppponent, find a champion that works with your team and then any other variables not present in normals
good luck with that
if anything, the game would be healthier if normals and ranked were the same queue so that people would be accurately rated upon playing the game, riot would not have so many coding issues, the trolls would be pushed to near the bottom or maybe actually learn something and there would be no more criticizing over the "unranked" rank
woodvsmurph1 votesWhat is your goal with normal game? a. practice a new build you heard/read about or came up with yourself? b. practice/test your skills on a new champ? c. play a more relaxed game without risk of losing rank? d. something else?
You don't need to know all the "unusual" or "off-meta" strategies for this in cases a & b. You are trying YOUR idea and seeing how well IT works. Doesn't matter what you put it up against.
If your reason for playing is c, you don't care if some oddball pick or build ends up beating you - you're there to have fun and not going to cry cuz you go 3/6/4. Who cares? If you look critically at the way you played and they way they played, you can learn WHY their strat worked, how to play against it, and what other champ/item combo's could achieve a similar playstyle as what you just faced. That way you are prepared against the same type of strat in the future even if the champ or item build varies slightly.
3TWarrior2 voteshow about to play the game in a competitive manner separate from ranked? Every toxic behavior in the game is amplified in ranked because the players feel like they are betting on a losing hand.
As per one of my other posts (I will fetch it if you wish but I found their discussion to be increasingly pointless), there were multiple detriments to making ranked entirely separate from normals and treating normals "as though it does not matter" even though a large percentage of players play normals competitively simply because there are fewer problems in normals
what you are describing is simply rational behavior. Everyone is going to practice against real opponents, people prefer normals over ranked because ranked players play as though they are the only member of the team that matters and that everyone else is a gamble.
as per your point about "you don't need to know all the unusual or off-meta strategies" , that is exactly what you need to know to create your own custom item sets, deviation strategies for your champion to react to the opponent, MOST IMPORTANTLY: strategies that you tried previously and would prefer to avoid because it was unsuccessful or did not interact well with a real team
the point of all of this: What "benefits" are there to riot's proposed change? it changes nothing and only causes more problems
Kr1sys2 votes
- Can't you see that in post-game lobby within league client? They have pretty much all the data any site like op.gg would have.
- If you play so much and are so concerned with ranked that you practice that much in normals and analyze it so severely, you should be able to just tell via your EXPERIENCE and the FEEL of the champ and/or build if you understand it and are comfortable enough to take it to ranked yet.
To answer
2.I don't always like to deal with the ladder pressure, especially when my times to queue up are at inopportune times generally(i.e. more school kids on, people that are trolling, etc). I'm not going into normals analyzing every little thing, but removing the ability to access even basic info about normals is a slippery slope that will result in other implications down the road, such as:
people turning normals into more of a 'joke' or 'for fun'.
an inability to see the MMR of opposing players, if I want to try out that new champ/build/etc, I'd also like to know the relative skill level of the opposing team.
Being unable to go back and see if you played alongside a fellow summoner in a previous game
woodvsmurph1 votesNormals is for fun. For practicing new stuff. It's not for trolling and intentionally trying to make the game miserable for your team, but trying new builds or champs you need to find out how well you understand them vs other HUMAN players is fine. It's more relaxed where you don't have to feel bad if you find out that new build or champ you thought looked so good needs a bit more work or just shouldn't be used in pvp.
Kr1sys1 votesNormals is for fun. For practicing new stuff. It's not for trolling and intentionally trying to make the game miserable for your team, but trying new builds or champs you need to find out how well you understand them vs other HUMAN players is fine. It's more relaxed where you don't have to feel bad if you find out that new build or champ you thought looked so good needs a bit more work or just shouldn't be used in pvp.
the game itself is for fun. if you're not having fun and unless you're a pro, then playing a game probably isn't something you should be doing.
General Esdeath 1 votesI'd like to know that the guy trying to play Kayn in my ranked game played him 20 times in normals, it makes me feel better.
Phife1 votesBut its almost a guarantee they didn't.
Truly Prideful7 votesWhy the hell would they do this? What does it hurt to allow sites like op.gg to track normal game stats for people? We wouldn't need the site at all if Riot would do it in their client. Another pointlessly stupid decision on Riot's part.
Scary Door4 votesWhat an absolutely, mind-numbingly, ridiculous policy change.
DeadUnborn3 votesQuote from the site: "Displaying population-wide aggregated stats for non-ranked games is allowed"
Why do you want to check individuals normals match history? You can still check ranked....seriously you are overreacting
ModAttysu The Poro3 votesFrom what I've seen, most people are concerned in terms of being coached in normals etc. I know when I did online tournaments, I would check peoples normal history to see what champions they frequented the most, then check ranked, would compare, then choose bans.
Personally, I think it's more like 'well, it's really not a big deal if normal stats are open, but since it isn't a big deal, does it really hurt to have them up?' I just don't get why they'd actively take it down.
DeadUnborn1 votesTwo reasons probably:
1)Avoid the usual "I'm paired with a bunch of bronzies" flamming 2) Hide the fact normals matchmaking can be terrible
I really don't think this will stop flamming what so ever, just change the way it is expressed... an people are smart enough to know when they are being paired with less experienced players. Macro play is a huge tell tell sign
...So yeah I so no point to it either basically hahaha
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesFrom what I am understanding you can still use sites like op.gg and such for the live game feature and still see "omfg all bronzies on my team while enemy is all silver 5 games over reeee!" and that it only impacts seeing past matches and seeing stats from those. On the other hand you can also just go to the "official" league of legends match history and still see normal games and see all the stats from those. I really don't see a HUGE difference in the change, but as you said I also see no reason for the change to begin with since their reasoning behind it is lazy and doesn't actually answer "why".
JRobin313 votesInteresting, maybe RIOT wants players to regard ranked ( not normals) as the place to measure your skill publicly?
RIOT says,
Our intention is that normal games are similar to pickup sports, where you're there for fun and are trying to win, but the stats ultimately don't matter. As a result, normals are friends only. We had an old version of Match History where players could set public, private, or friends only, but ultimately decided against that model here because the implications of setting "normals" to public are unclear. As soon as you set to "public," odds are that your normal win rates would become permanently available. We want ranked to be a legitimate sphere of competition
I think this means RIOT wants ranked to be the place where players feel they compete and measure their skill publicly. It actually makes me wonder if some players were playing normal games "competitively" since their stats could be public on third party websites.
Also, I think there may be some confusion in the OP about what this actually means for players. The link applies to public API (which applies to third party websites). It doesn't appear to say that players will not be able to view their personal match histories and all relevant statistics for normal games. So if you are still allowed to view your personal match history ... then what exactly is the problem here? Are you trying to compete with other publicly using normal games? If so, then why aren't you playing ranked?
The only thing the data policy appears to disallow is the ability to use your normal games to compete publicly with others. Doesn't it make sense to disallow that? Am I missing something?
DrCyanide6 votesThe complaint isn't about "competing" with others for who has the best stats, it's about tracking your own progress.
Think about it this way: What sport have you participated in where the only place you could get feedback on how you're doing is when you're playing a formal match against another team? To my knowledge, no sport works that way. You're able to go to your coach and ask for feedback and they can tell you what you're doing good at and what you need to improve, and they do this every practice session.
People have been trying to use third party websites in the same way, as a coach for their Normal games to help them improve for Ranked. The policy change basically says "no coaching in practice", which makes no sense.
Sure, you can try to capture some of the data in a spreadsheet, but as someone who's tried that before it's a massive pain when you realize there's some other stat you want to track.
JRobin311 votesInteresting, I've never been in a sport outside of LoL that took my performance during practice games and published it publicly. I confess I've never played professional Basketball. I can see what you mean though about coaches wanting to gather data from practices as an assessment for potential competitive games.
Maybe RIOT didn't consider the coaching problem. I certainly didn't. I gather information from my games personally and I don't consult third party websites, but I'm also not too demanding on the sort of stats I track and it seems you maybe very demanding in terms of what you regard as truly important to your progress.
As long as you are using this information as preparation for ranked play, I don't see a problem. If, however, you simply want this information for non-ranked play purposes, then I do see a problem - a big problem. Normal games aren't supposed to be a form of public competition.
How do you propose that you could have access to the information you want without making it a matter of public record? Or do you simply not see a problem with it being public?
DrCyanide3 votesTo be honest, I don't see a problem with Normals being public. My Overwatch Normals data is public (apparently I've got a 38.7% win rate, lol) and is broken down into a ton of categories (by hero, accuracy, damage blocked, metals earned, etc). The first site I came to even allows me to directly plug in another player's ID to compare how I perform in Normals compared to them (it's very obvious that my wife is better at Overwatch than I am).
I see that as the way it should be, not me and my friends having to pull out our spreadsheets to see how we're doing individually and where we can improve.
I don't see being able to compare how you're doing with your friends as some crime either. Such comparisons only become problematic when they're used to put others down.
However, if Riot insists it needs to be made private (for whatever reason), then I suggest they hurry up with their Single Sign On for 3rd Party Sites. (I talked a bit more about it in my other reply to you)
My Waifu Vanilla1 votesOn the other hand, sites like op.gg don't really tell you (for normal games) any stat you really couldn't find on your own. The only stats that I could not realistically find through the in game match history that I could on something like op.gg are pretty much "insert stat"/min. Everything else is completely fair game with the in game match history since op.gg does not actively track multi-game stats unless it is a ranked game anyway (it will only show you overall winrate/kda/cs per game on ranked games).
The ONLY real downside to this is something like say lolsumo not being able to actively help you, HOWEVER, I feel like 95%+ of players playing strictly normal games are NOT worried enough about their play to actively seek help from a premium helper.
This change does not seriously impact anyone imho, but on the other side of the coin I also see absolutely no reason for the change to go through. Their logic is incredibly flawed in that "we don't want those numbers impacting anything" or whatever, when most numbers people care about that are important and impacted by overall data (champion winrates and such) are only pulled from plat+ ranked games anyway. I personally don't care either way since I only play a few times a week and even then I usually only mess around in solo queue, but the logic behind this change simply doesn't make sense for how "big of a deal" they are making it.
TacoKingIII2 votesI'm sure Riot wouldn't do this for no reason at all. Does anyone know Riot's reasoning here? Even if it's stupid, it is important to consider why this happened.
LostFr0st3 votesThey did indeed share a reason, and they announced this planned removal of normal games from the API about a year ago.
From RiotSargonas on Reddit:
To be fair, this is a change we announced at the launch of Match History, years ago. We also released an update on this change a little over a year ago, reminding you guys it was coming, and we shared it once more with our developer community 90 days ago at the start of the deprecation window.
We're sympathetic to your pain, however, because this data continued to remain in the game client, my team felt it was unfair to remove it from the API when it was publicly available elsewhere. As a result, we left it in the API until it was removed from the client with the release of the new update. Now that it is gone from the client, we are also removing it from the API to remain consistent and adhered to the original request made by the team who owns this data, who wished to make Ranked data fully public and Normals data private.
In the meantime, we did make a new endpoint, that returns your last 20 games to fill the gap. Hopefully this helps a lot of the use cases. In the future, when we're able to provide a secure authentication method for 3rd parties to validate account ownership (think, something like a single sign on) then we'll be able to re-unlock normals data for your own account and maybe friends with proper restrictions in place. However until that tech exists, we're unable to do so with the required security measures.
EDIT Hey folks! So, I hope this is seen.. because I've been down-voted pretty darn hard... but sadly have no where else to really post this update. :( As i mentioned in another comment, we take this feedback very seriously, and its been shared with the team who owns the systems that is triggering this change... as well as a lot of other relevant Rioters. It's sparked quite the discussion on this and they are going to take a step back and look into our plans here more and discuss them in depth. I think someone closer to the product and plans in questions (ie not I or the API folks) will have some updates for you guys in the not too distant future.
WinTheWarOnPants1 votesI really wish they would add back the ability to see premades. It was really nice knowing that your lane is duo with the jg so you can prepare to get your ass camped off, or that you are on a team of solos against a 5-4 man premade for some reason. It's not like you can't figure it out, it's just a HUGE pain in the ass now.
Infernape1 votesGood thing we got the club system.
Irelia Bot2 votesHardly full proof
Would much rather have what dota 2 has showing who is premade with a line grouping premades