Krugs: 300 Raptors: 180 Wolves: 90 Gromp: 30 Buffs: 30 Scuttle: 30
Who thought catchup experience being a flat 30 per individual monster was a good idea? It just makes jungling even more drastically asymmetrical.
Knoyle41 votesThey called me crazy for taking the enemy krugs 
AlienPrimate1 votesIt says I take the enemy krugs multiple times every time I jungle.
(end game stats show the krugs sides switched for monsters killed)
Enloct1 votesHuh...wonder if that lets you stack 
BlackHairedGirl1 votes
: they called me crazy for taking the ally krugs
Mr Wind Up Bird14 votesYour point is a little muddled because krugs are kind of a bad camp for a bunch of unrelated reasons. Raptors, though, seem like a real problem to me. The jungle favors champions that are good at raptors in a way that I don't think is very healthy for the game, and catchup experience is definitely part of that.
flibitydoo1 votescan you give me an example of which champions get favored that are unhealthy?
from what I can tell, before the new jungle (way back in season 3 and 4), it used to be just pick strong early game ad assassin junglers.
a tank jungler like amumu? or nautilus? garbage at the time. don't pick because they can't clear fast enough and can easily get invaded by a fast clearing lee sin or kha'zix or elise who has cleared their camps (staying at full health) and solo-invaded into the other jungle (to find the amumu/naut with low health still clearing through their camps).
are you referring to zac? because zac was okay on release then basically garbage tier shortly after. do you remember that RGM,_ nemesis draft_? the game mode where you gave your opponent the worst champions you could think of? yeah zac was one of the top 10 most picked champs in that mode when it aired (a long with the likes of pre-rework yorick, urgot galio, poppy). and yeah, he wasn't that great either back then, he could knock up a guy and that's it. no true hard cc, just .5 second duration displacement effects and a slow (that was maxed last) which was 20%-40% movespeed (which btw, max'd last so the first 12 levels this thing is 20%). the only issue right now is his recent rework gave him really strong tank cc
and rek'sai/gragas I have yet to see anyone make a thread on these boards in the past year complaining about them being "unhealthy from a gameplay perspective" (well I guess there was the string of threads about rek'sai being broken, in the sense that her new ult could literally be dodged by walking sideways and be useless, but that's the "my champion has a defective ability" kind of broken)
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesunhealthy from a gameplay perspective
They don't even understand what's healthy or not. Just look at the ones saying 
ult is healthy
Zac wasn't garbage last year, he had a time where's he was hella strong (same for for Rek)... by strong i mean perma pick or ban.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesisn't catchup xd for remedy to it ?
13900 Essence9 votesI've hated the concept of catch-up exp since it was released. You are behind for a reason, you shouldn't get things handed to you to make life easier.
It makes sense if you were DC'ed or something, but if you just fell behind for misplaying, you should stay behind unless you make proactive plays.
I guess it reduces snowballing, but it's essentially just handing things out for free.
Solitair3 votesBut supports
13900 Essence2 votesThey are usually underleveled from roaming anyways.
They existed before it was thing, they can exist without it.
Solitair5 votesYea, but the existance was pain. Especially with the revamp of masteries which removed catch up masteries. It sucks being level 14 or 13 when everyone else is 18. It feels like you are playing half a champion, and helped to make support the least desirable role.
Lawd Dawg5 votesSee but thing is if you a jg with a slow clear time, say Eve, against a jg with a fast clear time, say Jax, you're gonna end up behind regardless
13900 Essence1 votesWell that is part of picking a jg with a slow clear time vs. one with a faster clear time.
That should be a disadvantage that you are aware of when you pick the champion, hopefully the champ you picked trades off the clear time for more power somewhere else.
Kirius Dark3 votesSo then you want everyone to be pigeonholed into picking the top meta fast clear junglers only?? Which everyone on the forums bitches about to begin with
The penalty for slower clears is you cant do as much while the one with faster clear can clear all the camps and gank/shop/invade while the slower clear doesnt have the time for that. Exp is just one variable which was normalized to help this
13900 Essence1 votesI never said I wanted people to only pick the top meta jg clearing champions.
I'm saying if you knowingly pick a slower clearing champion than your enemy, you better have a reason to do it, otherwise you are just disadvantaging yourself for no good reason. Usually if a jungler has a slow clear speed, they have strength somewhere else, like ganking.
Kirius Dark2 votesDo you even jg bro?
Yeah 
fast clears 
totally means weaker ganks. Totally not forced to run meta
Slow 
clears 
totally means 
godly ganks 
and 
great at 
other things 
.
Meanwhile the meta junglers will crush you with invades when you can't do anything but run during your slow ass clear then fall behind in exp, gold and items
13900 Essence1 votesThe better ganks were an example.
Kindred is a late-game carry, Malphite isn't even a fucking jungler don't pull that shit, Maokai has extremely good ganks, tanks, and initiation, Nunu has godlike counter-jungling and specifically counters lee, one of your listed "op" champs, Fiddle is weak but has an easy clear with sustain, Jax is a late-game carry/split pusher, Amumu is basically the same as maokai.
Lee has fast clear and early pressure, but late-game is just an ult bot. Kha'zix is entirely useless late game if the enemy team has any form of peel, and while Warwick is a decent damage threat early, he gets forced to be a below-average tank late-game.
I didn't mean to start an argument, all I wanted to say is that if you pick a slower clearing champion than the enemy jungler, you'd better have a reason for it. Pick/ban strategy is a large part of the game.
P.S. I don't know what Maokai rework version you are on, but his clear is way too fucking fast for being a tank.
P.P.S. what a hypocritical statement, saying jax is a fast clear then using him as an example of a slow clear
See but thing is if you a jg with a slow clear time, say Eve, against a jg with a fast clear time, say Jax, you're gonna end up behind regardless
Kirius Dark1 votes[{quoted}](name=Titanium Legs,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=enP4X4Zq,comment-id=0006000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-03T17:35:28.221+0000)
P.P.S. what a hypocritical statement, saying jax is a fast clear then using him as an example of a slow clear
Moron. look who you're quoting
TwitchInMyPants2 votesLook at the midlane for catchup exp, its 90 exp. That's never going to amount to a level on its own even on a full clear and you're forced to play defensive to reap the benefits of it. And its a reward for doing camps that are a higher level than your champion, which would normally be inefficient and you'd almost be better off soaking a lane for xp (which your team would hate you for). I'd say it's primarily for dcs, secondarily for gankers that end up having something sloppy happen while waiting in lane and now they have to spend extended time farming to not be weak.
The problem isn't catchup exp as a mechanic, its how its distributed. It should be distributed evenly between the monsters and at most a minor buff to the many monster camps just to keep people from switching to single target junglers (Like 90 vs 110 overall or something). It goes away as soon as you're at the avg player level anyway (inbetween botlane and solo lanes) so its entirely temporary.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku2 votesI guess it reduces snowballing, but it's essentially just handing things out for free.
Thats the point... but i don't feel it in my games. the game seems more and more snowbally
Incognonymous6 votesThe thing is, if you try Raptor or Krugs at a low level, without the correct champ, you WILL get annihilated. They're the exact reason that blue side clear is universally better for single-target junglers. If you don't have AoE, those camps will just murder the shit out of you.
There are good rewards for safely stealing an enemies Krugs or Raptors, but they're like the worst camps to get caught at too.
AwesomeGuyDj6 votesdoing krugs is like meticulously trying to put on contact lenses that will squirt hot sauce if you dont go at the exactly correct speed.
SEKAI1 votesdoing krugs is like meticulously trying to put on contact lenses that will squirt hot sauce if you dont go at the exactly correct speed.
So specific, is that from experience?
AwesomeGuyDj1 votesThe krugs or the contacts? I've never used contacts, i just picked the most annoying painful thing i could think of at the exact moment.
TotalJerk1 votesPretty much any champion can tear through Raptors once they get Cinderhulk or Tiamat, though.
Sun Wu Ryuumoku1 votesand ??
To begin u need to reach this point. Then all champ don't like theses item. Look at 
: yeah u can build tiamat but :
oSEXYPLATYPUSo5 votesok so whats the point ?
you kill more things you get more experience
DrCyanide32 votesNormally small raptors and small Krugs give 15 XP, while their larger cousins give more. This triples the XP of the small monsters, but is not so extreme for the large monsters.
If I'm reading the Wiki right, the large Raptor is worth 95XP when behind, but each small raptor is worth 45XP when behind. Kill 2 or 3 small raptors and you've caught up a huge amount.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo8 votesok but dont people cry over snowballing ?
so if you are behind and get extra experience from doing krugs you can be competitive in the game and slow the snowballing of the other team by "catching up"
DrCyanide17 votesI don't think the problem is getting extra XP from doing camps that normally give more XP. I think the complaint is if you get the big Krug/Raptor before the enemy comes in and kills all the baby ones you should get more XP for that than if you just killed the small ones and left.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo6 votesok but that is an assumption ... that isnt clearly laid out in the OP . hence my 1st comment of " ok whats the point"
DrCyanide7 votesI was under the impression that your down votes were more from your "kill more things, get more XP" statement, since the Jungle isn't designed like that (small Raptors aren't worth the same XP as Buffs)
oSEXYPLATYPUSo4 voteswell kill more things get more exp still holds water...
you gain more experience the more you cs and kill things
so if behind if you go and farm jungle, get some cs from a lane etc you gain experience and catch up , as you do this try not to fight when behind and extend the lead to the enemy...
The Lexer3 votesWell, it should be kill more camps get more xp. There's no point in going to the blue side since it has 5 cs when the red has 17
oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votesis it an issue with the amount of things to cs, or the experience you gain when behind?
and if you are behind aka as under leveled then its harder for you to cs and farm jungle cuz the amount of damage it takes to kill minions and jungle camps are harder cuz they level with the game
The Lexer2 votesYou said yourself you gain more experience the more you cs and kill things, so since it's 5-17 in cs, the sides of the jungle are also very lopsided in exp.
oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votesok both teams have a red side jungle yes ?
both get access to this ?
once again i dont see the issue
Kyunsei2 votes[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=enP4X4Zq,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-01T20:12:53.056+0000)
ok both teams have a red side jungle yes ?
both get access to this ?
once again i dont see the issue
The issue is that in some very rare circumstances, one jungler will nearly triple his jungling exp with one camp and the other won't.
AlienPrimate1 votesKrugs also take 5x longer to kill after getting your jungle item. Gromp takes about 3 seconds to kill with only the jungle item. It takes more than a second just for krugs to split up into their smaller forms.
AirKingNeo4 votesCatchup XP should be reduced to 15-20 per camp. It's insane right now.
Then buff other junglers and give champions +X damage to monsters just to increase jungle diversity. Maybe Bloodrazor's onhit should interact with Lifesteal like BoRK? Who knows?
Kyunsei1 votesCatchup XP should be reduced to 15-20 per camp. It's insane right now.
Then buff other junglers and give champions +X damage to monsters just to increase jungle diversity. Maybe Bloodrazor's onhit should interact with Lifesteal like BoRK? Who knows?
Bloodrazor should totally interact with lifesteal, it doesn't have innate lifesteal on champion or minion.
AirKingNeo1 votesBloodrazor (and all jungle enchants) have 10% lifesteal vs monsters. Letting that apply to BR's onhit (as well as lifesteal from other sources) would be a small buff.
Kyunsei4 votesMan so that's it 30 flat is idiotic, basically when you know this clearing krugs will grant you all the exp back, and that's also why Raptor is so highly contested. an % increase is necessary, and this right now.
EDIT : Something like a +50% increase of experience, instead of a flat 30. little krugs goes 7 to 37, it's more than 5 times their value in exp, 5 TIMES ! A full MINI krugs clear is you're level 5 and you're behind grants you 222 exp instead of 42 exp, 222 would be nearly half of the 580 needed to reach level 6 ! That's just insanely stupid and I didn't even take account of 3 small krugs and the large one !
Glory ln Death2 votesChange it to 60 catch-up for large monsters, 15 for small monsters, and you have exactly the same amount of catch-up experience in one side of the jungle (720, including scuttles; slightly less without scuttles - 600 instead of the current 660), but it's more spread out.
Krugs: 300 -> 195 Raptors: 180 -> 135 Wolves: 90 -> 90 Gromp: 30 -> 60 Buffs: 30 -> 60 each Scuttle: 30 -> 60 each
AirKingNeo1 votesThat still sounds like too much free XP.
KawaiiShroom1 votesSorry what is catch up experience?
13900 Essence3 votesThe game detects if you are under the average level your allies and enemies, and will give you extra exp to attempt to get you up to speed.
TotalJerk2 votesMonster levels are determined partially by what the game time is, and the current level average of every champion in the game. If you have a jungle item, and are below the level of a monster, killing it gives you 30 flat experience for every level you are below it. It essentially means that if you are behind in levels as a jungler, you get more exp from monsters.
The Deckowner2 votesSimply put, the camp level is based on champions' average level, and if the camp is higher level than you, you get extra exp from that camp.