Daily reminder that immobile casters are terrible and need improvements

Yenn·Aug 29, 2017·7 votes·392 views

It's pretty trivial to dive them with zero risk for the majority of the post-6 game, if you're playing either a tank or assassin. Towers need to do more.

25 Comments

DragonSheaAug 29, 20174 votes

The problem with being immobile is that they don't get any compensation for it. Not more power, durability utility or CC. Mobility is not factored in the power budget in the game.

sobi999Aug 29, 20171 votes

Absolutely correct and as of right now mobility creep is the worst. Riot really needs to learn how to balance their game.

Mens Hair ClubAug 29, 20172 votes

that's not true at all, they absolutely do get compensated for it, otherwise they wouldn't be top picks so frequently

PoskeAug 29, 20173 votes

Nope they dont XD

This is how it works

There are champions who can force stuff. those champions are like 98% as strong as those champions who cannot force stuff but they can choose a timing....

There is a pattern between the champions I main

Every single one of them can force themself upon the enemy Whether its Riven with her slow Q use and engage / flash engage Whether its yasuo.. well if you are near a wave I AM FORCING Whether its LB if you are 1.4k range away from me and you arent a tank You should be afraid

Every single champion I frequently play is a champion who can force an engage or force a threat

I dont play mordekaiser because he cant force a shit I dont play garen because he cant force a shit I dont play juggernauts in general because they cant force I dont play swain because again he cant force... I dont play Brand because he cant force unless he goes pretty much melee (Compare his engage to syndras)

Immobile champions tend to be this AFK machines who cannot do anything unless enemy wants/lets them

In that segment League is lacking. Every single champion I main can force all others are trash in my eyes... well some are just not as fun as I want them to be...

Mens Hair ClubAug 29, 20171 votes

immobile mages don't need to force

look at viktor, he was a top tier pick for a long time until he got gutted, ashe can definitely force a fight, swain can too he has a long range AOE snare. many Immobile champs don't need to force you, they have long range to hit you from far away or other strengths like high utility (ashe for example)

juggernauts would be able to force a fight if there weren't a million CCs in the game on spells that have no business having slows. the only juggernaut who's MEANT to be a defensive powerhouse is illaoi and she's bad because there's a million champs that don't need to respect her in her zone even if she has ult. tentacles are just way too slow beyond lane phase and they should speed up with ranks in ult or something so they can still actually threaten someone who bought tier 2 boots

NyarlathοtepAug 29, 2017

swain can too he has a long range AOE snare. many Immobile champs don't need to force you, they have long range to hit you from far away or other strengths like high utility (ashe for example)

Swain snare also will not hit anyone with brain unless they are under the effects of movement impairments. Also most long range skills have delays. Ultis are an exception since they are designed to be strong. Take for example xerath's q. It can be avoided even with the minor slow on his w. The truth is that most immobile champs (especially mages) pay far more than they earn because of their range.

juggernauts would be able to force a fight if there weren't a million CCs in the game on spells that have no business having slows

The thing is that thats how juggernauts work. They are supposed to be weak to kiting.

Mens Hair ClubAug 29, 20171 votes

there's a difference between fair kiting and unfair amounts of CC

you can't ever expect a juggernaut to be good with the unreasonable expectations set for them (be an immobile melee with no way to outplay CC, just build tank items and hope you survive) unless they're ridiculously busted like darius and mord were in s5 worlds. not to mention that on top of having piss-awful range they don't even do reliable damage in melee half the time, they have lots of little minigames so that people with shit positioning to let them in melee can still outplay them

NyarlathοtepAug 29, 2017

there's a difference between fair kiting and unfair amounts of CC

Thats true.

you can't ever expect a juggernaut to be good with the unreasonable expectations set for them (be an immobile melee with no way to outplay CC, just build tank items and hope you survive)

Thats true too.

not to mention that on top of having piss-awful range

Thats part of their inherit characteristics. Almost no range.

they don't even do reliable damage in melee half the time

How so? Im pretty sure they usual have reliable kit at melee.

they have lots of little minigames so that people with shit positioning to let them in melee can still outplay them

Thats riot new trend to keep things new. Also they want to avoid making juggernauts an auto win in a trade when they reach them in melee. ( keep in mind i dont agree with this one, im just stating or at least i think i do, what riot thinks ).

Mens Hair ClubAug 29, 20171 votes

i understand juggs are supposed to be immobile, but you can't NOT give them a way to get into a range where they can threaten you and expect them to succeed. look at how trash voli and udyr are right now for example. the BEST juggernauts right now are trundle, who has pillar and a movespeed boost, and Mord, who has enough range on his spells that he isn't as harmed by being melee as his peers

How so? Im pretty sure they usual have reliable kit at melee.

urgot, illaoi and yorick are pretty unreliable into a competent enemy. delayed skillshots or easily avoidable win conditions (don't walk around urgot so he can't shotgun you, don't stand still vs illaoi)

Thats riot new trend to keep things new. Also they want to avoid making juggernauts an auto win in a trade when they reach them in melee.

well then it needs to go both ways. if i have to have a hard time getting to you and then have to play a minigame, the people that threaten me most (ranged DPS) should not be 100% unavoidable damage. that's the real problem with them; the game is bias on who gets what in terms of counterplay.

NyarlathοtepAug 29, 2017

illaoi and yorick are pretty unreliable into a competent enemy

Actually illaoi is useless against an compentent emeny .

if i have to have a hard time getting to you and then have to play a minigame, the people that threaten me most (ranged DPS) should not be 100% unavoidable damage. that's the real problem with them; the game is bias on who gets what in terms of counterplay.

In-fking-deed. If only riot knew how to balance this game.

NyarlathοtepAug 29, 2017

It hurts so much but its true.

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20173 votes

You mean immobile casters like Cassiopeia Orianna Viktor Syndra Taliyah that are all really contested at the pro level right now? Those immobile casters?

FDS DesperadoAug 29, 20174 votes

You just handpicked 5 popular casters, also Taliyah is NOT immobile. I would imagine hes referring more to Champions like: Karthus Lux Morgana Xerath Zyra

Also, side note, pro league of legends has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with actual league of legends. From Plat to Bronze, most of your player base cannot play any of those casters well enough to warrant not getting pubstomped by an assassin or marksman or some champion with retarded mobility and dive potential.

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20173 votes

You want some more immobile casters that are good? Hell, we'll keep it to just Solo Q.

Malzahar 54%

Anivia 54%

Karthus 53.5%

TwistedFate 53%

Velkoz 52.5%

Ziggs 52.5%

Stop spreading this lie that immobile casters are terrible. They are objectively the best class in the game right now, bar none.

FDS DesperadoAug 29, 20172 votes

Alright Hooked on Phonics, highlight the portion of my post where I say Immobile casters are terrible

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=FDS Desperado,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ekjgthJe,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-29T12:59:15.522+0000)

Alright Hooked on Phonics, highlight the portion of my post where I say Immobile casters are terrible

The title of the thread is literally

Daily reminder that immobile casters are terrible and need improvements

and I don't exactly see you arguing against that claim. You basically did everything except explicitly state that they're terrible which puts you in the same camp as the OP as far as I'm concerned.

FDS DesperadoAug 29, 20172 votes

I'm not the OP? So the thread title is irrelevant as I didn't state that.

I'm not saying they are OP/UP or well balanced, I don't play mages ever so I couldn't care less. I don't have a dog in the fight. I do disagree with how you made your initial argument. You hand picked a few mages to try and prove a point about the class as a whole. Furthermore, you used LCS as a justification to make a point about those specific mages to say that the whole of immobile mages are in a good spot right now for all players. Those were some pretty broad leaps you're making.

Because I didn't specifically argue against it I must be for it? That's your reasoning here? I didn't even imply that immobile casters were under powered as a whole. Get outta here

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20171 votes

I don't even know how to argue with you because I can't even tell what your point is. The thread is about immobile mages being terrible. I list several examples where this is clearly not true. You object to my selection by saying that pro play doesn't matter. I then give you a list of another 6 good immobile mages, this time centered around solo q . You then declare that you don't think immobile mages are weak which makes everything you said before rather strange. Are you claiming immobile mages are bad in low elo? Because that isn't true statistically either.

FDS DesperadoAug 29, 20172 votes

That's where you're getting lost, I'm not making a point about immobile mages. Don't care about them at all.

My point is about your original comment, your reasoning was trash, the second one was much better because you actually put in effort to use statistics and not just make a snarky comment citing non-quantified LCS pick rates for a few mages.

The only two points I made in my first comment were that:

A.) There are a lot more mages than the few you listed, one of whom doesn't even fit the category relevant to this post, and that you just picked 4 you knew you could prove a point with.

B.) LCS pick rates for 4 champions that you aren't even going to bother to cite and just use the terminology "really contested" is hardly solid evidence to support your claim.

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20171 votes

You're intensely frustrating to talk with, you know that? And not in a "this guy really got me good" kind of way. More like a "This guy is impossible to pin down" kind of way. Your point is ever elusive and your objections are nitpicky at best. At this point, you either have no idea you're doing it are doing it intentionally because it makes you feel clever. Either way, I see no point in further discussion. Good day.

FDS DesperadoAug 29, 20172 votes

Of course they are nitpicky, but your original comment was snarky and annoying. If you're going to make statements to try and prove points and obviously care enough to pull the statistics to back them up, then do it in the first place. Don't just make unsupported annoying claims and justify them with shit reasons like "cause they do it in the LCS"

Point was outlined in black and white in my last comment, if you can't undestand it then maybe you aren't as clever as you think you are.

Either way, good day.

Vanic998Aug 29, 20171 votes

Vel'Koz has a low play rate. That's why his winrate is good. Vel'Koz is actually a little weak right now because his play rate was cut in half over the last year and his win rate has remained the same.

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20171 votes

Spare me the nonsense about how his winrate doesn't actually mean anything. His playrate is more than high enough to give an accurate representation of his power and he's even seeing LCS play.

YennAug 29, 20172 votes

Enemy team has Blitzcrank with Ascension and Sejuani with Righteous Glory.

I cannot even play the fucking game as Vel'koz, because both of them just barrel into me at 700 MS, there's nothing I can do to stop them, and if either of them gets within 800 range of me, I'm dead.

PoskeAug 29, 20171 votes

Play syndra over velkoz she can E him and does everything velkoz does but better

Yes her True damage is lower

But given the strenght of voidstaff True damage is completly irelevant if you are mage

Velkoz was complete failure of release As soon as I SAW HIM

I said .. why owuld i pick that trash over syndra or evn veigar? And if it becomes to strong why would I pick syndra over him ETC

He is just another Brand trash design xd