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Stealth: Why not alert characters of nearby stealthers?

Fikule··2 votes·1,046 views

But not actually reveal them.

Rengar's ult is a good example of this. You can't see him, but you know he's around.

You get the yellow warning Exclamation over your head if:

  • A stealthed enemy is within a certain distance (a screen seems about right, less if you are already in combat)
  • They are in a visible area of the map (not fog of war or unwarded brush)

The exclamation wouldn't say how close they are and it wouldn't reveal them in itself. It just implies "look out, get ready".

The lowered detection distance while in combat means there is a clear time when stealthed champions can capitalise. It also means that sneaking up on someone out of combat needs good use of the map to not alert them too soon.

Doing this would make stealth less powerful in a surprising sense. You can drop pinks when alerted or sweep for them. But it would allow stealth to be healthier overall. Eve wouldn't need the nearby-reveal on her passive for example and a champion's other abilities can be tuned knowing that the enemy will generally know they're around, just not where, rather than tuning them to the assumption that you are always able to surprise them.

It would also mean that normal wards can detect their presence by extending your visiblity, but not actually reveal them to you.

A detecting player is the only person who see's the Exclamation over their head. Similar to Eve's passive, the stealther would have a symbol over the heads of those who have detected them (maybe an eye or something?).

13 Comments

redfeenix4 votes

Such few champs have stealth. Those that do, stealth is essential to their kit and grants them power. I dont supporting nerfing ALL STEALTH ACROSS THE BOARD like you proposed.

We already have many true sight options ie pinks, oracles. I dont think we need a glowing !!!!!~!! over our heads to counter eve or twitch. It would be a huge nerf to them, and thats undeserved.

Cheers.

Sir Nice Guy2 votes

We have 1 way to counter steal: pinks. And once you are full build you can't use them anymore.

Fikule1 votes

I did say that if this was put in stealth could have less weighting on a character's kit. The idea is that this would be implemented with an overhaul of stealth and its relating characters.

Riot already considers stealth to be a flawed mechanic, with the main flaw being the lack of counters. Rengar and Eve already have this system pretty much built in to their kits. For Rengar pretty much nothing would change, for Eve it would mean she is more easily detected, but also that more power could be moved into other areas of her kit. This would likely also apply to champions like Twitch.

Shaco might not even be affected by it as you generally know he's coming most times anyway.

Sir Nice Guy3 votes

I'm gonna copy-paste my own post here:

As we all know, the stealth mechanic in LoL has a few issues, which is why eve, twitch, and rengar all got some minor tweaks and reworks about their stealths, and I think the upcoming assassin rework is going to tackle stealth as well. Which is why I'd like to add a couple of suggestions to help out.

First of all, pink wards should have their own special place in the item slots, just like trinkets. The reason is simple: when a game goes on forever, and everybody is full build, well, you've got no space for a pink ward, which (at the moment) is the only way to counter stealth. (No, the red trinket doesn't count because you can't target stealthed champs revealed by it). So basically you have to sacrifice an entire item just to be able to deal with a vayne, rengar, or whatever, as soon as a match goes longer than 45 minutes. And that is absolutely not fair. So, easy way to resolve that problem: make a special slot for the pink ward, so everyone can get one at any moment in the game, or at least allow people who are full build to buy pinks anyway. I've said if before i'll say it again: being full build should not be a handicap.

Second: put a warning sign (like rengar's or evelynn's) for twitch's stealth. I know that sounds like a huge nerf, but it is definitely needed: at the moment, twitch can literally walk through the entire enemy team, all the way to the back line, and engage a fight with his ult, obliterating the enemy squishies in a matter of seconds. As an adc, i_t shouldn't be his role nor possible for him to engage fights_ (except for ashe and her R, but that's not relevant) , and it's also completely bonkers than he can walk through 5 enemies without being detected. Putting that little warning mark above enemies heads is only fair considering eve and rengar both have it. Talon, teemo, and vayne have different interactions with their stealth, so in my opinion that /!\ isn't needed for their stealth, but it could be added as well, just for consistency's sake.

Many people probably won't agree with me for this one, and I understand, but again, this is just my opinion, everybody is entitled to their own.

Sir Nice Guy2 votes

I already made a post about this a week ago. I've reposted it 7 times on EUW boards and haven't gotten a response from rioters yet. I wish you more luck than me.

Fikule1 votes

Here's hoping

Shaydrox2 votes

This would make some champions useless. Besides it wouldn't even fit all of them, Akali is always gonna be in her shroud and Talon loses some of his juking potential with his ult, not to mention you always know where he is when he uses it.

Fikule1 votes

I don't see how it would impact these champions. The enemy is still going to have to guess a direction when talon ults and as you said, they already know where akali is. In their cases it won't help or hinder them.

Astôlfo1 votes

No. Deal with it.

Fikule1 votes

This isn't a "I lost to stealth" post. Stealth can be dealt with. It's about Riot already knowing they want to change stealth and suggesting options.

You can "deal with it" all you want, but your post doesn't have much weight when it comes time for them to actually change it.

Astôlfo1 votes

Yeah, except, this would be a massive nerf to them. The ones that have said indicator have those indicators for a reason. The others don't need them. Get a pink. Stick together. Don't just wander off by yourself. Ward places frequently because most of them will not be in constant stealth (except for like Eve, but she's irrelevant anyways).

Your post just sounds like someone whining after they lost to stealth champs.

Fikule1 votes

It only sounds that way if you specifically ignore sections of my post to bolster your own pre-determined opinions.

"and a champion's other abilities can be tuned knowing that the enemy will generally know they're around". This implies that with this change, a stealth champion can be buffed based around the assumption that they can be sensed. What changes with this system if your vision will alert your of their presence, but will still hide their location.

"Get a pink. Stick together. Don't just wander off by yourself. Ward places frequently because". This pretty accurately sums up the problem Riot has with stealth. It creates non-aggressive gameplay even when the threat isn't present.

"most of them will not be in constant stealth (except for like Eve, but she's irrelevant anyways)". You say the change would be a massive nerf, but in the same post you describe a champion that is made weaker simply because she has access to permanent stealth. Before her most recent changes she was intentionally made completely unplayable for years just to avoid dealing with the stealth issue. With this change she could keep her stealth and be buffed. Though I imagine you'll ignore my desire to have her buffed as it interferes with that already formed opinion of yours.

Astôlfo1 votes

The whole point of stealth is that you're not supposed to know they're there at all. The reason Rengar has it is because it's his ult and Eve has it because she has constant stealth as her passive until someone comes within X units of her/she attacks.

Not really, because what I said pretty much only applies to squishies, who shouldn't be wandering off on their own by themselves anyways. None of the stealth champs are strong enough to delete a tank without being incredibly ridiculously fed.

"except for like Eve, but she's irrelevant anyways" Did you read what I said properly? Eve is weak because of her perma-stealth passive, but she's never played anyways nor is she that good, so her case is pretty much irrelevant because her passive needs a rework altogether. Her being buffed would be fine. Not with that current passive it wouldn't.

But you don't really need to sound so pretentious.

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