I really don't feel out played when I get killed by a Yasuo after 20 minutes

awdaf·Mar 27, 2017·142 votes·6,350 views

After he gets a , it's so hard to even try and keep up in trades with him or even win a 1v1.

And now the most popular route is going straight for or if you're really fed a

Once that happens, it's just a worse version of Trynd, he keeps auto attacking you, while you try and side step his Qs, and you aren't dealing any damage to him in return, and he just sticks on you, and eventually he will land enough Qs to tornado, and then you get ulted.

It's really not that fun to play against.

This is the point in my post where I'm sure to get down votes,

If Riot removed his shield from his passive, he'd be a lot more balanced and easier to deal with, ish.

253 Comments

AnhartaminMar 27, 201761 votes

[deleted]

TheorcheroMar 27, 201737 votes

{quoted}

There's just a certain point where you can't duel a Yasuo anymore as a mage for example. It has nothing to do with outplaying.

So you mean the start of the game?

JunkοMar 28, 201712 votes

Yasuo can definitely not just roflstomp any mage from second 1 of the laning phase. A lot of the mages can poke him from safe range and back off before he can go on you. He has no reliable way to get to you if you play smart before level 6 outside of Flash, and even then he has to hit a skillshot.

There is a reason he is played more in top lane nowdays.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 27, 201729 votes

{quoted}

I don't feel outplayed dying to veigar in late game.

No shit. You shouldn't feel outplayed if Veigar kills you, you should feel stupid, because you let his W hit you.

Veigar, in order to kill people at any point, needs to land his stun and/or W unless he's more fed than the average American (highest obesity rate in the world represent), assuming they haven't already been weakened, and if he fucks up his stun or uses it early, he's a sitting duck for 10 seconds. Yasuo doesn't have obvious periods of weakness, or really any periods of weakness, and his abilities are far less telegraphed.

That's not to say Yasuo is broken, I didn't bring up any stats here, and Veigar does do assloads of damage, but Veigar is far less annoying to play against then Yasuo.

Edit: Americans are communists now, apparently.

TotalJerkMar 28, 201723 votes

Yasuo doesn't have obvious periods of weakness

Uncharged Q
Windwall on cooldown
No nearby minions to dash to
Passive down

YoungSirJ0eyMar 28, 201714 votes

Not having his third Q isn't a period of weakness, it's a period of 'not necessarily going to murder you'. As for the other 3, a good Yasuo will never let any more than two of those things be true at once, and he only needs one to shut down almost all attempted damage, meaning that it's another part of Yasuo's kit where you can't outplay him, he can only outplay himself.

TotalJerkMar 28, 20172 votes

A Yasuo alone without Q3 doesn't have an ult and doesn't have CC.

As for the other 3, a good Yasuo will never let any more than two of those things be true at once

A ranged laner can keep his passive down with auto attacks. A Melee laner doesn't give a fuck about his windwall and can often win in the early game through frequent extended trades.

Also: somewhat unrelated, but Yasuo is easy to camp since his dash is an unreliable escape.

DeathBot666Mar 29, 20173 votes

1 of those 3 will only shut down all of your damage if you misplay it. If only his passive is up, just poke it and wait the 1 second it's alive before using a combo on him. If he has a windwall just bait it out. As for minions you just need to get him to dash to 1, and shoot your spell where he will land.

RFPSHBYQl7Mar 28, 20174 votes

What are you talking about? A Veigar who can stack and isn't even too fed will QR you in lategame

DoktorKaiserMar 27, 201754 votes

I dont really feel that any nerf will help him being less cancerous, he really needs a rework that will make his enemies not want to spontaniously die IRL when facing him.

RainbowIceeMar 27, 201717 votes

Id honestly be finr if he lost the shield. His CD are pretty low and he has a dash he can spam to get close safely and a wind wall to stop rabged attacks. He doesnt need that shield he should lose bad trades not just dash back safely as it comes down he has no mana so spamming isnt an issue. And yea the shield is only 1 hit, but believe me when i say it makes a ridiculous difference.

BLACK REALM GODMar 28, 20171 votes

i like his shield since it helps me imagine a samurai deflecting a projectile at the last second. perhaps it would be better with a shorter duration and shorter cooldown - requiring more reflex skill. i would prefer it if his minion dash was changed so that it forced him to slash through all nearby units in a lane instead of his weird knee slide.

he'd dash forward and slice all units nearby like this

https://youtu.be/0LxA1kqwg6w?t=1m31s

https://youtu.be/8o5Y1OLXPh0?t=1m4s

https://youtu.be/yzc8OIokp5o?t=3m28s

like these examples. notice how the sword is sheathed and then there's a lunge? i feel like the dash should be auto extended in a straight path if there are multiple targets ahead of yasuo's selected target and he dashed through all of them.

Imperial JapanMar 28, 20171 votes

That's a good idea. If the wall had a shorter duration and a shorter cooldown it will still allow Yasuo players to block certatin abilities that are more skill based. Their will be less (haha, probably not less) ADC mains or mage mains that will complain about not being able to hit Yasuo with skillshots or autos. In a sense it'll even be a worse Fiora Riposte.

BLACK REALM GODMar 28, 20177 votes

when they showcased yasuo doing this

https://youtu.be/fkM20LgOdKQ?t=3m2s

i was like... why not just have him dash straight through them all at once?

then i saw the windwall and was like... why can this block that many abilities and spells? throwing it up for a second to block the R or the W would have been great! why does it need to block everything for that long?

fast forward a few years and people are complaining about the same things they've hated since he was released.

he's got pantheons passive

he's got a better versions of braums shield

he has fioras Q on instant cooldown

he has a melee version of karthus's Q

if you combine 3 Q's you get a janna Q

if you combine the dash with 3 Q's you can an alistar QE combo

if you combine the R with any knockup you get a zyra R.

he's resourceless

he gets frequent shopper discounts on all critical items.

his kit is unwieldy sure, but that doesnt mean he should have everything he has. it'd be nice to see the changes i mentioned implemented.

P0IS0N IVYMar 28, 20173 votes

Overloading a champion's kit seems to bring in lots of money for Riot.

But yeah Yasuo needs a rework more than most champions on the list imo.

THE RlVER KlNGMar 27, 201721 votes

There is an undiscovered 10th circle of hell beneath Lucifer's frozen lake

where you play as an immobile top laner against PD-Tabi-Bruiser Yasuo for all eternity

NarasimhaMar 27, 201713 votes

Darius BRING. IT. ON.

TheSingularityMar 27, 20175 votes

Kled Bitch p.p.p.p.pl.ple ah screw it, GET THE F*CK OFF MAH LAND!

3TWarriorMar 28, 20175 votes

Swain : sheds a stoic tear for if he fights yasuo, he will get nerfed in response for increased winrates

PrahiMar 28, 201711 votes

Holy crap dude chill with the hate, i just clicked your profile and i got a torrent of "Please Nerf This or Please Nerf That". Just stop with the Yasuo circlejerk. You say Frozen mallet is popular on him and it is not. And who doesn't take ninja tabis these days??? AA champion beating your ass? Take a Ninja Tabi to reduce the damage. And whining about Infinity Edge is nothing, because they wont rework this age old good item simply because it it works well on a champion. And taking Frozen mallet with yasuo severely debilitates his crits instead of 400+ which is a substantial amount it is reduced to somewhere around 113-248. So tanks that take even thornmail or anything that reduces aa damage like a randhuins and a NINJA TABI, i doubt you will get obliterated.

And if riot removed his shield that would suck, because he wouldnt be a fighter or a bruiser/assasin anymore he would die after trying to q a minion. And that spam move Q is after he scales with attack speed items, and even then the cdr is nothing compared to champions like Orianna or Veigar after they have one cdr item. And at most the attack speed item that most use is Phantom Dancer or if they need less crit and more cdr they would take Triforce.

P.S. I think you are thinking of the Yasuo's that brutally murder your team, but you never think of the Yasuo's that come and carry.

ReshaosMar 28, 20174 votes

Ever play Akali? Akali's early game is absolute garbage. You're forced to farm under the turret against 95% of your match ups in mid lane. However, it still works. You endure the rough early game because once you hit that spike it all becomes worth it. All you have to do is try to stay somewhat even in cs and not die before 6. Yasuo should do the same in my opinion.

TotalJerkMar 28, 20171 votes

Akali has consistently been one of the highest killing mid laners in the early game for a long time.

Hinagiku33Mar 28, 20174 votes

Not sure how far back you are thinking of, but Akali has been infamous for her terrible lane phase for most of this game's history. Season 2 and 3 especially she was near-useless pre-6 and then started scaling into a hyper-carry late game. Hell, even in Season 5 she needed to drop her shroud in the middle of the lane just to grab CS.

Akali does get plenty of kills, and she does go mid a lot, but that doesn't mean she gets all those kills in lane phase. Akali typically farms to hit 6 ASAP then shoves the wave and roams bot lane. She's not much of a playmaker pre-6, but the rework did add some early sustain and the damage proc of her passive can give her an okay trade against melee opponents (which mostly affects Akali top lane).

Her early game really was utter garbage before the rework. Post-rework she still sucks in early lane phase but not as bad as before. Her recommended start is even Cloth Armor + 4 potions just so she doesn't get eviscerated by auto-attack poke and minion aggro. The Gunblade + Ult power spike is really strong, but let's not pretend that Akali is the queen of pre-6 mid lane.

NineTailedMysticMar 28, 20173 votes

And who doesn't take ninja tabis these days??? AA champion beating your ass? Take a Ninja Tabi to reduce the damage.

Because no Mage is going to take Tabis short of a full AD team due to the lack of available MPen only found on Sorcs and Haunting Guise/Liandry's in itemization.

thelocalsuccubusMar 27, 20179 votes

Because sadly, that is the type of champion he is.

(and people will say my post is invalid because I don't like ranked)

He is one of those high crit hypercarries (Yi, Tryndamere, Yasuo, Vayne, the like.) that after a certain point, cannot be out dueled. Now, one of my mains is Yasuo, and I would REALLY like for him to get a rework.

This is because even though I find him a very fun champion, he is either useless or unable to be shut down. Champions like him, Tryndamere, and Yi, all need changes made to make them less Feast or Famine type champions where they either get ahead and win 100%, or don't and lose because they are useless, even when not feeding.

Overall, I think Yasuo, Yi, and Tryndamere all need changes to make them healthier champions when faced with situations such as late game (Tryndamere), fed (Yasuo, Tryndamere, Yi) or high CS (Tryndamere, Yi, sometimes Yasuo).

GeshultzMar 27, 20178 votes

I feel the best way to nerf him would add charges like Akali's ult that recharges every 10 seconds ect and have a max set of charges on yasou's e. This way it gives a resource constraint on his e early game so he can be punished if he plays improperly when trading.

Spicy RiceMar 27, 20172 votes

You play yasuo like that, and tell me how it feels

YoungSirJ0eyMar 27, 20177 votes

{quoted}

If Riot removed his shield from his passive, he'd be a lot more balanced and easier to deal with, ish.

Easier to deal with? Sure. Balanced? No. He'd be weak as fuck. Yasuo currently has the lowest base health pool of any melee champion, a low health growth, and is one of the two only melee champs with no MR growth (the other is Kassadin). His defenses are entirely balanced around his passive, and removing that he'd just get poked down by literally any mage. They could buff his health and MR, but then he's basically just shitty Riven who builds crit.

If I had to nerf him, I'd hit 3 things: his movement speed, his attack range, and his W. His movement speed is too high for having as many dashes as he does, his attack range is 50 higher than most melee champions who aren't juggernauts, and his W blocking things as soon as it's cast instead of once it fully forms is bullshit.

4th3t0sMar 28, 20176 votes

Higher base ms despite item 3046 / item 3087 being core on him.

RlP K0BEMar 27, 20177 votes

This "I dont feel like I got outplayed when x kills me" argument is stupid and can be used against many champions.

LozaMar 28, 20177 votes

As a frequent Yasuo player, I honestly don't understand the complains about Yasuo. The nerf on E really hit him hard especially during laning phase. To be more specific, you have to max out Q rather than E because of the huge nerf it received.

Also--in most cases--players tend to pick hideous match ups against Yasuo and get severely punished for it. It is ridiculous to suggest removing Yasuo's shield especially when that's the only reason he does decently in lane and outside of lane. Without his shield, Yasuo will be ridiculously weak.

When I go up against Yasuo, I have never been able to relate to the complaints on the forum. He's nowhere near as strong as players on the forum make him out to be. It is pretty obvious that Yasuo--and any champ in general--is very strong when ahead. He also does well when players outplay themselves in champion select.

If you play an immobile champion against a mobile champion in mid lane, you will definitely be punished. In regards to top lane, Darius, Kled, Malphite, Maokai, Nautilus, and etc. destroy Yasuo.

Yasuo is not as strong as players on the forum make him out to be. And if he were as "strong" as players claim him to be, he would definitely be picked up in the LCS. He only seems strong because the majority of players tend to play very ugly match ups against him... I'm not sure why players counter-pick themselves. Maybe because players don't expect others to be smart enough to trade and play well mechanically, I am not sure.

GayFluffyUnicornMar 28, 20172 votes

Swain is one of the strongest soloQ champs since a loong time. How often do you see him getting picked in the LCS? Same with riven. Don't ever use that shitty comparison to justify a champions balance in soloQ. In pro playyou would just pick naut into yasuo and stall the game until 40 mins and win.

YoungSirJ0eyMar 28, 20172 votes

So what you're saying is, Yasuo counters 95% of midlane matchups. And scales extremely well into the lategame. Sure, that sounds completely fair. It's not like every other mobile melee who goes mid is either bad lategame or Kassadin, who's awful early. It's not like Yasuo has more utility than any of them. It's not like Graves is seeing nerfs for being too much of a generalist because he's strong at all points in the game and good at 1v1s and teamfighting.

Yasuo may not be overpowered, but his design is fundamentally flawed. Graves is strong early right now because his first clear is so good, which is because he gets too much knockback on his autos. That's fixable, although I don't know why Riot is still beating around the bush there. Yasuo, on the other hand, essentially gets multiple abilities in one. I'm not saying champions with more than 4 abilities aren't allowed, but most of them fall off lategame to compensate for the early strength they get from their higher number of abilities. Yasuo doesn't, and it's dumb.

Big Black CrocMar 28, 20176 votes

"I realy dont feel outplayed when i get killed by a yasuo any point in the game"

FTFY

58697132DEL1Mar 28, 20176 votes

He shouldnt have had that shield anyways, the point of yas is like Riven: Outplay via clicks/spell usage and proper timing/predicts. What good is that when Yas basically has to go:

Is my shield up?(Y/N)---If Y engage combo|If N wait until filled engage combo did they die? (Y/N)------If Y spam emote/mastery---if N dash away and repeat

Like it's simple af, granted i used to think it SO simple I got him and i fucked up a lot (timing those E's is a bit harder than most make it look) but it didnt matter HOW much i fucked up, i just waited for my shield and tried again. If I had pots even better. That shield is ridiculous, serves little (if any) thematic, and it needs to either be nerfed into oblivion or straight up removed.

AzaloneMar 28, 20176 votes

I ban Yasuo whenever I am able because he's a threat to my team whether we're playing against him, or he's being played for our team.

The problem is simple: The enemy Yasuo thinks he can 1v5 your team and he's right. The Yasuo on your team thinks he can 1v5 the enemy team and he's wrong.

Yasuo needs changes that make him more vulnerable (it blows my mind that his windwall can stop a nami ult).

TotalJerkMar 28, 20175 votes

I could honestly say the same thing about Olaf. If his ult is up and he can see you, you're going to die.

agbudarMar 27, 20174 votes

they need to remove his double crit. and replace it with something HEALTHY

sobi999Mar 28, 20174 votes

He is a late game hyper carry that can solo lane very easily mid or top unlike the adc that constantly needs to be spoon fed early game. He has 2x crit in his passive and has one ability's CD scale with AS. Nonetheless there is not much difference between a adc and a yasuo in itemization as both tend to go for crit, AS and lifesteal except that he is melee but that doesn't matter when he has as many dashes as there are enemies and an ult gapcloser or mallet. His farming and mobility is better than an adc and he counters mages in lane as well. I don't see why he gets to be a late game hypercarry when he is not even weak early game. Yasuo players that feed are too aggressive with him early game but still catch up once they get their 2 core items.

Imperial JapanMar 28, 20173 votes

If the auto reduction from tabi and the 15% dmg reduction from PD is the problem with Yasuo, I don't see how the deletion of his passive would give you any leeway. That and I'm confused on how it becomes a worse version of tryndamere. Tryndamere, if built like Yasuo was, would be stronger and would not be a "worse" version. They would have the same amount of crit chance (correct me if I'm wrong but Trynd is able to gain 30% crit chance), same attackspeed, and basically the same mobility. (Yes Yasuo will have minions he can dash to but if you are that far pushed I think it's your fault and if you aren't 1. Yasuo cannot e to minions 2. Trynd can match a flash or one movement type ability with his e and w) This is just covering what you've posted and will be stopped here since I do not care about your underlying opinion about Yasuo.

MelledoneusMar 28, 20172 votes

How about we just halve the damage reduction of PD for melee? Seems like a reasonable hit to Shitsuo.

xWatersMar 28, 20172 votes

Don't nerf an item because of one champion. That's not fair to the others. I propose that yasuo get his shield removed completely from his passive or lower the amount of free crit he gets.

MelledoneusMar 28, 20171 votes

What other melee uses PD and actually relies on the damage reduction? Seriously, it was a toxic mechanic to start with.

xWatersMar 28, 20172 votes

Tryndamere, yi, maybe gangplank and Aatrox? Idrk. I'd just rather the direct problem be nerfed rather than an item.

4th3t0sMar 28, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Tryndamere, yi, maybe gangplank and Aatrox? Idrk. I'd just rather the direct problem be nerfed rather than an item.

Uhhhh, Graves ?

Yosuke ApperuMar 28, 20172 votes

Don't forget to mention that because his ulti is an animation and not a channel, he CANNOT be cc'ed out of it.

FutureboundMar 28, 20172 votes

I agree, but it's also annoying when I lane against a Riven as Yasuo, play perfectly, and still somehow get one shot cause she builds lethality... Doesn't matter that she went 1/3 early i guess.

JoseraphMar 28, 20172 votes

If you got one shot by her, presumably by getting hit by her W and/or third Q, you weren't playing perfectly now were you? She may be 1/3, but she's also an early game beast with a bunch of early AD scalings, pretty high, base damage, and an AD steroid, while you're a squishy as hell late game champ.

ThilmerMar 28, 20172 votes

The worst part is that usually happens after 15 minutes.

FilDaFunkMar 28, 20172 votes

The whole reason why melee champs are meant to be weaker midlane is that they are weak to harass. However, Yas just has the shield, so quite a lot of the poke is negated. He already has a powerful passive, why doe her get two?