"I must win my lane" No, you don't have to, going even is better than losing lane

awdaf·Jan 1, 2017·108 votes·5,424 views

You don't have to win your lane, you don't have to do risky plays or out plays all the time, the best thing you can do for your team is ward your side areas and go even in lane, if you get a kill with your jungler, or they do a dumb dive on you, great, but don't force things all the time. I cannot tell you how many games I have lost because one of my teammates doesn't know how to stop feeding or just CS, all they want to do is fight fight fight fight or roam roam roam roam.

Do you know what happens in most Diamond 3+ games? They focus mostly on CS in lane and warding, that's it, if the situation arises that the jungle and you can grab a kill on the enemy laner, it happens, however, it is rarely forced unless it is cooperative and under a lot of coordination, because if it isn't clean, they are not going to do it.

Seriously, 25% of my losses are because people don't know how to just CS in lane and become useful later.

91 Comments

Mira Arya EntheJan 1, 201748 votes

This doesn't work for lane bullies. If Riven Pantheon Teemo Quinn Yasuo Renekton went even in lane. They lost. Their advantage is winning lane, anything short of that and they become heavy bagage. Also why they have more toxic players, high risk, high reward.

Also there is the fact that if I play even and go safe. My team has another definition for that "Did nothing" and "Worthless"

DanjengJan 1, 201716 votes

I'm not in on the hate-yasuo bandwagon, but from what see, he still has impact on the game even after getting beat down in lane. I don't think he count as a lane bully. He scales very well later on (look at champion.gg win rate by game length), but usually gets shat on in the top lane.

This is from the times I played against him, so my sample is biased. I play juggernauts, who can absolutely demolish Yasuo.

AdriqnoheeJan 1, 20173 votes

His kit is definitely that of a lane Bully, playing him on anyone that has no secure way of holding him into place is sure way of getting fucked the entire lane phase, but while he is a lane bully, he is also a hyper carry and the constant nerfs to his laning phase made sure that even tough he is on the list he is all the way in the bottom, which is why he loses to every other lane bully, but still can handle most of the people that lane bullys can handle.

Asayake 5150glowJan 1, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Mira Arya Enthe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eebc9sBo,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-01-01T17:25:37.371+0000)

This doesn't work for lane bullies. If went even in lane. They lost. Their advantage is winning lane, anything short of that and they become heavy bagage. Also why they have more toxic players, high risk, high reward.

Also there is the fact that if I play even and go safe. My team has another definition for that "Did nothing" and "Worthless"

He's obviously not talking about that, he's just saying 'don't feed so I can carry you.'

SexualsaurusJan 1, 20174 votes

I main Quinn and yeah you gotta get ahead to stay relevant so yeah i'm gonna fight and try to win lane because even though people are saying going even in lane is better than losing lane, winning lane is so much better than going even so that is a chance worth taking.

A lot jungler players forget that there a champs such as Khazix , Rengar and Kindred exist that need to get a head in the jungle or they'll be useless.

Imagine telling a Draven main that he should just go even in lane.

Pls dont do thisJan 1, 20178 votes

Teems mains are actually surprisingly civil... Then we go into the wild habitats of the Yasuo and Vayne mains... [zombie-nunu-bummed]

Avios1Jan 2, 20172 votes

As a Teemo main who rushes Zzrot, I can confirm.

BandolierJan 2, 20172 votes

But i'm a civil Yasuo main. [zombie-nunu-tears]

DeusVultJan 1, 20179 votes

Teemo isnt as much as a lane bully as much as he is just a ranged champ that goes top lane and wins simply due to his range. And after laning phase he is a split push champ because of his awful teamfight, ability to mine the lane he is pushing, speed and invisibility.

Or at least that's how it used to be before vision changes, shroom changes, scuttle and plants killed his niche

Mira Arya EntheJan 2, 20172 votes

Teemo is THE original top lane ranged bully. Since top lane meta was formed he has been an annoying bitch who goes up there just to win with his early power. I know... played him since S2.

RIP YONDUJan 1, 20172 votes

You don't have to make risky plays with ANY of these champs. Laning is there strength. You play it properly and you will win without the need to make a risky play. How the hell does pantheon, teemo, yasuo, quinn, renekton have to make a risky play to win. You constantly widdle them down until they have to back out or its a free kill. Lane bullies make it easier to play lane...

FairyfleurJan 1, 20173 votes

Taliyah Also needs to roam or achieve an advantage in lane, especially if the enemy laner outscales her.

þaby ghostJan 3, 20171 votes

I mean I don't really like roaming much as Taliyah because im afraid of missing cs which i feel is equally beneficial to her as kills are. i like keeping my wave right in the middle until im strong enough to all in and roaming may mean i have to clean up lane before resuming farm.

FairyfleurJan 3, 20171 votes

That's true, but if you can spread a lead/ or get a lead in lanes other than yours you can snowball your teammates for an early win. Taliyah struggles in the late game because of her under average scalings (for a midlane mage) and mid to low range.

LiterallyNomadicJan 2, 20173 votes

Yasuo and Riven dont need to win lane, and Yasuo isnt really a lane bully. Yasuo`s weakest stage is laning phase, unless the player is good at Yasuo or in a good matchup

Bronze BonanzaJan 1, 201720 votes

That's your playstyle and it probably works for the champions you play.

That doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone enjoys playing that way. And not every champion is optimally played that way. Pantheon Riven Shaco Teemo Urgot Renekton

RalanrJan 1, 20173 votes

This is one of the reasons I stopped maining Pantheon actually.

8726th Tryn NAJan 1, 20173 votes

Same, it takes the pressure off knowing that you can still be decent later

RalanrJan 1, 20172 votes

Exactly.

AtheosisXJan 1, 201712 votes

Teemo and Urgot harass and poke. They don't have to play super-aggro and all-in constantly in lane.

ZerenzaJan 1, 20175 votes

Winning lane can be as simple as making sure your CS is 20 ahead of your laner, in many cases a teemo might have double or triple his enemy laner's CSing. And that means their ahead by the equivalent of maybe 3-6 kills depending on how long the phase lasts and the game lasts.

Lately i'v been making it a mission of mine when i play Ekko or Katarina(my mid mains) to not only have atleast 1-2 kills but also be 20-double my enemy laner's CS by the time mid game comes around. I can basically carry a game if i'm that far ahead, it's freaking amazing what you can do with CS advantage after bullying someone out of lane.

SpookyNeedleJan 1, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Bronze Bonanza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eebc9sBo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-01-01T16:35:58.848+0000)

That's your playstyle and it probably works for the champions you play.

That doesn't work for everyone. Not everyone enjoys playing that way. And not every champion is optimally played that way.

If riven farms well that's good enough

vOmvbrawfUJan 1, 201718 votes

You don't even have to go even. Just don't be a dipshit and feed 6 kills in 4 mins.

EndlessSorcererJan 1, 201714 votes

Better mindset: "I must not lose my lane"

RalanrJan 1, 20176 votes

"I need not win, I just must not lose."

ValyrianBladeJan 1, 20177 votes

{quoted}

You don't have to win your lane, you don't have to do risky plays or out plays all the time, the best thing you can do for your team is ward your side areas and go even in lane, if you get a kill with your jungler, or they do a dumb dive on you, great, but don't force things all the time. I cannot tell you how many games I have lost because one of my teammates doesn't know how to stop feeding or just CS, all they want to do is fight fight fight fight or roam roam roam roam.

Do you know what happens in most Diamond 3+ games? They focus mostly on CS in lane and warding, that's it, if the situation arises that the jungle and you can grab a kill on the enemy laner, it happens, however, it is rarely forced unless it is cooperative and under a lot of coordination, because if it isn't clean, they are not going to do it.

Seriously, 25% of my losses are because people don't know how to just CS in lane and become useful later.

I agree with the concept but you need to understand the difference between low, medium, and high elo play (not even including elite).

At low elo, you pretty much do need to win your lane. You can win games by not winning your lane, but then an ally needs to win their lane. Someone on the map is going to win lane, so if it's never going to be you, you're putting your team at a disadvantage. There are exceptions (late game champions like Ryze may be okay going even in lane and carrying late despite an ally losing lane) but overall you need to do something to win your games. The other big thing is that in low elo people make a LOT of mistakes. If your lane opponent is still going for CS when he's in kill-able range at bronze/silver elo he probably just doesn't realize you're capable of killing him from there. If he does it at diamond-challenger elo he's got his jungler nearby and is ready to turn your attempted solo kill in to a successful gank. Basically, going for an out-of-position player at bronze-silver may be a 67% play (only 1/3 chance jungler is near their lane), whereas going for it at diamond+ may be a 5% play (there's no way he got to that elo and doesn't know he should have recalled there).

At medium elo you get to a really weird balance here. Player still make the same mistakes, and they also don't necessarily stop making them once you've killed them once or twice. It won't be quite as successful a play as in low elo because the jungler also is a little smarter and can see you're getting an edge in your lane and he needs to help out. That 67% play may be a 50% play in medium elo, maybe slightly higher with decent wards. Depending on who you're playing (e.g. lane bully that wants to get ahead early) it may still be the right play. Big thing to watch for here is a change in behavior in laning phase. If you're bullying lane and they suddenly go for CS with a lot more confidence, the jungler is probably there. If they're still trying to get cs using abilities from range and not getting in a danger zone, going for that tower dive may be more likely to work out. People will still overstay (e.g. needs 120g for a BF Sword, or TP is back up in 25 seconds) but they won't make gross errors like in low elo.

As alluded to earlier, high elo these mistakes simply aren't made. The player is baiting you. Hence the game focuses on CS and waiting for jungle pressure.

UkeNeverSemeJan 1, 20177 votes

I'll have to disagree on this one, particularly for low elo. in low elo someone IS going to do dumb shit and feed. meaning that if you dont get fed, someone on the enemy team probably is anyways. For this reason you have to try and win lane.

Supreme Senpai69Jan 3, 20171 votes

Everyone having this attitude makes me lose more games than I should :/

If you just let yourself be carried you'll win, statistically, 50% of the time. You'll climb. You can can get fed off of CS! If you played aggro early and are 0/1 now, don't go in again! If you couldn't win when you were 0/1 you won't when you're 0/2. Just farm and poke them down so you can kill them before getting ganked, or if you're a burst champ and not a poke champ, farm and all in when you know where their jungler is and can kill them.

If you aren't 100% sure you can kill them while surviving, then don't do it!

AtheosisXJan 1, 20175 votes

Unfortunately the "I must carry" mentality that nearly everyone plays with prevents people from sitting back and accepting that they are behind, being outplayed, or simply in a bad matchup.

GiantEnemyShacoJan 1, 20174 votes

It's just the natural product of the soloqueue environment. Let's be real, in any game, the only person who can rely on for anything is yourself, so it really does make it feel like you're the one who has to carry. They're too busy focusing on their team mate's boosted bonobo behavior to notice that they themselves are chimping out.

Jerry SeinfeIdJan 1, 20175 votes

honestly this depends on your champion and depending on your champ it might even change according to your mastery.

When i play Teemo with Deathfire i might be able to win if i go even in kills, still gonna need to "win my lane" by having more cs. If i play using Thunderlords, i better kill my enemy at lvl 2 because it would have been a waste taking it if i didn't. And even then it's probably because of the build i use for him, if you play full ap it might be different too.

Teemo is such a good example for these things.

ChaoticPineconeJan 2, 20174 votes

Definitely disagree - sorry bud, but all this post shows is your playstyle.

You might be okay playing a safe farm lane, scaling into mid/late game, then winning teamfights/skirmishes and taking objectives. That works for you, and its how you got to the rank youre at. Other people dont play that way; maybe they suck at teamfighting, maybe they dont know map rotations as well, maybe they are just better in lane. These people need to stomp their lane - they make up for their lackluster teamfighting by having a large lead midgame. And thats how they got to the rank they are at.

Of course, nobody has 100% success at what they do. Just like how you have games where nobody fed early but you still cant carry mid/late, there are games where the lanebully doesnt get a lead in lane. 25% of your losses might be because people dont know how to CS in lane and become useful later, but 25% of someone else's losses might be because you didnt get a lead early (or hold down your enemy laner) and you didnt play the teamfights well. It goes both ways, as both playstyles are not inherently bad - they just dont work well together.

NotSpecialDudeJan 2, 20174 votes

The issue is more akin to knowing when to pivot from one playstyle to the other. When your stomping lane, aggressive plays to gain a big lead are favorable, but if the tides change or your opponent closes the gold gap, that playstyle will bite ya in the bum hard. Case and point:

MonkeyKing vs Nasus

Wu is a bully that thrives in 1v1 and nasus, while having a deceptive dueling power doesn't have the best early game, but if nasus gets a kill or two thanks to a failed dive or jungle gank, wu kong has no real means of approaching him without taking massive damage. Trying to survive the lane becomes the only viable option as any aggressive plays become outright suicide if attempted alone.

Likewise, a passive playstyle ensures your own survival, but it is flawed if your enemy laner scales better into mid/late game better then you. Case and point:

Vayne vs Ashe

Ashe doesn't have the greatest of early games and really wants some crit chance before really going ham, but vayne scales much harder then ashe. If ashe plays too passive, vayne will get free farm and in lategame will be a bigger threat then ashe.

My point is that while both playstyles have merit, know which to play and when to switch is a vital skill to learn.

Big LincolnJan 1, 20173 votes

but i want to fight Darius

It's all I play top lane for, endless 1v1

Weasel KenseiJan 1, 20173 votes

You are correct OP.

Id like to add a note to some top lane fighter/tank players.

If you are losing hard to the enemy laner... why are you still trying to rush your damage item? STOP! Get a mid tier defensive item:

item 1057 item 3211 item 1031 item 1011

at minimum before going back to your damage item, though finishing one of these into a resistance item will keep you in lane longer and get you the CS the OP was talking about. If youre determined to go back to damage after one of those mid tier items, go item 3053 or item 3156 because they will save you from burst, but still give you some hitting power.

If youre REALLY losing lane stop all items and immediately start item 3512 . Hopefully you will finish it just before the top tower falls and it will help to keep your inner tower standing even if you die.

The name of the game is getting CS, and sometimes you have to change up your style to play that game.

Good advice OP, upvote!

DunkinNoobsJan 1, 20173 votes

You have to go for kills in lower elo. Your opponents make too many critical mistakes not to do so, and you'd better believe your teammates are going to feed fairly often. Playing safe in farming might be a solid strategy in high elo but you need to snowball in low elo.

SociopathFriendJan 1, 20173 votes

This is especially true when laning against Assassins. They need to get fed to really kick off- do not let them. Even if it means you sacrifice all ability to kill them- just play safe.

Craft ZeppelinJan 2, 20173 votes

Allly Rumble ： ”Im losing against a Nasus. GG"

Me　 Camille ：”I though the plan was to dunk the person trapped in my ult with your missles in teamfights...."

Supreme Senpai69Jan 3, 20171 votes

You expect a top laner to participate in teamfights? Absurd

BlueBilberryJan 2, 20173 votes

Actually this is a good point. But it also hinges on the selection of certain types of champions to start off. Here lies the problem.

In other games, such as chess, poker or backgammon, high risk strategies/openings tend to cause players to make riskier moves and often lose them games. If however some LoL players use similar strategies used by stronger players in those same games, like collecting small advantages for the long term, then perhaps there could be more ratings climbs.

Tangy CitrusJan 2, 20173 votes

The OP isnt saying you should never play aggressively or anything. Hes just saying that if you lose a solo fight or youre against a risky/even matchup in lane then its better you take the 0/1 and just start playing passively until you KNOW you can kill your laner or jungler/end game happens. Theres also a lot of roam potential if you can shove the wave and they cant siege very well. If your laner takes the first kill between you two, but plays passively since it was a pre 6 kill or something then tries to freeze the lane to keep their lead - you can just roam or make teleport plays from top lane. If youre mid lane, then yeah you should be looking for roam potential.

GL if you get behind in bot lane, hope your tower farm is good.

I think the real message here is to know your limits and what you can do and also what your opponent can do. And be cautious of junglers.

General Esdeath Jan 1, 20172 votes

NO BUT I HAVE TO CARRY SO MY BRONZE TEAM MATES DON'T HOLD ME BACK TRUST ME ON THIS I'M AN AHRI MAIN.

http://i.imgur.com/CjQlTnh.jpg

Legacy HydralphaJan 1, 20174 votes

https://hydra-media.cursecdn.com/streamers.gamepedia.com/4/41/Nightblue3-profile.png?version=c5f7e0ec7aa7cf2e1cfe2118e0810cd8

General Esdeath Jan 1, 20172 votes

SEE WHY AT SIGN

notice me Sin piJan 1, 20172 votes

{quoted}

all they want to do is fight fight fight fight or roam roam roam roam.

that's what playing support is mostly about early game, n people just dont seem to realize it and im a supp main myself

SteelMankindJan 1, 20172 votes

Gonna offer an alternate opinion:

You're playing a VIDEO GAME. Video games are meant to be FUN. Farming under your turret, giving up CS, never fighting, etc. is NOT fun.

9 XJan 1, 201712 votes

So the logical solution is to go in and die, resulting in your turret getting pushed more, losing more CS and fighting even less than never (because you just lost more gold and experience while simultaneously handing them more gold and experience, possibly even pushing them to the point they can win a 1v2)?

Yeah, that sounds like a vast improvement in fun factor. Losing generally isn't fun, but it's an inevitable part of the game and if that's how you handle it, maybe competitive gaming in general isn't for you. Have you tried Club Penguin?

SteelMankindJan 1, 20172 votes

Gonna preface this by saying that I never play ranked.

Idk dude, whenever I am in the position where I need to play super safe, give up CS, and in general just get bullied around by my lane opponent and the enemy jungler, I have these "What am I doing with my life" existential crises. Maybe it's different for other lanes. but most midlane mages can still fight their lane opponent from behind because all you have to do is land your skillshots and dodge theirs. I was 0/5 against a LeBlanc a while ago as Aurelion Sol, and I managed to dodge her chain and kill her. We almost ended up winning the game after that.

Regina GeorgeJan 3, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Idk dude, whenever I am in the position where I need to play super safe, give up CS, and in general just get bullied around by my lane opponent and the enemy jungler, I have these "What am I doing with my life" existential crises.

lol calm down