Senna: What you might have missed and why she's not as broken as you might think!

Cräfty··5 votes·8,573 views
Senna Abilities

So, Senna is the new Support/Marksman Riot Games is releasing.

First of all, yes, she is supposed to be able to be played as both Support and Marksman. She's not a pure support. That's why her passive gives her ADC stats. Let's hope the numbers and scaling are kept in check and balanced before she hits the live server.

Second, Her Q seems to rely on hitting an allied target to work. From all the footage available so far, we can see that everytime she casts her Q, she either casts it through an allied champion (Lucian), an allied ward (when she killedJanna and Akali) or a turret. Maybe she can cast it through allied minions as well, but no footage of that yet. So basically, her Q might be an exact copy of Lucian's Q, but casted on allies (including allied turrets and wards) rather than enemies. It's not a free to use skillshot, it's conditioned by different factors that I just mentioned, including your own positioning in fights.

Her W is ok, I guess. The initial hit by it doesn't apply any soft CC prior to the hard CC (root) right after. And the root doesn't seem to last that long. So Tenacity might make this ability way less impactful. Let's not forget about cleanse-like abilities as well. Yes, it's an AoE hard CC, but it pushes the enemy to position better during fights, that's it. Think of it as playing vs a Zilean that's trying to poke you with his Q (kinda). If your teammate has Senna's W on him, stay away from him.

The E is a bit scary, tbh, but it doesn't seem to be as broken as people think. There seems to be counter play potential to this:

  • Senna is always at the center of her E. So you know where to aim your skillshots vs her.
  • Senna's movement is visible. Even though she is stealthed, you can clearly see where and how she's moving. Think of it as Pyke's W, but now you can actually see where he's going and at what speed, all the the time.
  • Senna is still targetable by skillshots (hooked by thresh).
  • Allies and Senna are camouflaged, not invisible. Which means they can be revealed by many ways: step in close to them, item 2055, turrets, or any ability that grant unit-vision.
  • The current description says that allies are unclickable, not untargetable. Which means you can still hit them with AoE and skillshot abilities (Xayah got hit by XinZhao's W while she was in Senna's E).

Her ult seems to be the only ability that can be considered OP, for now. A global AurelionSol beam that simply deals damage in the center of it and shields allies with a wilder range. We'll see how " broken " this will be on PBE soon anyway.

So yeah, overall, I think the abilities are pretty decent. I'm just hoping her passive doesn't give too much stats and her R doesn't deal too much damage (the shield seems fine atm).

23 Comments

Zerenza6 votes

The only issue i have is her E. I can't think of a single moment where an entire enemy team being Unclickable and/or stealthed is fair. We learned from akali that even if you can see the champion, if you can't click on them it's still just as annoying and hard to play against as them being invisible.

What's more is the fact that not only does her Camo not go away when she takes damage or is CCed, her Camo won't go away if her allies cast abilities from her E either meaning that the enemy team can throw skillshots at you from a place where you can't see them while also being able to move themselves.

I don't know why making allied champions Unclickable while also giving an entire team stealth was necessary, giving an entire team stealth was plenty but to make it impossible to force the enemy team out of that stealth while also making them unclickable is downright broken. If senna can have her Fog canceled with Damage and CC and the Unclickable mechanic is removed, by all means she's a great champion but otherwise it's broken and it's going to be impossible to balance.

Cräfty1 votes

I can understand your point but I also think of it from the other side too. If the enemy team is packed inside that small area of Senna's E, my team can combo them easily with AoE abilities and skillshots. Don't forget that although that ability grants AoE camouflage, it limits your allies' movement within that tight space and limits the type of plays that they can do from there, since once they attack, they are revealed and can't stealth back (supposedly). So, their movement becomes predictable and what they can do from there becomes even more predictable.

If Senna herself becomes clickable again after being damaged inside her E, then the ability becomes 100% useless, that's why there is only a small window where becomes clickable again when she attacks, and then she recamoufle again.

Yes, unclickable enemies sucks ass. But, as long as they can still be hit by skillshots, I'm fine with it. Not like Yuumi, where not only you can't click on her, you can't even hit her with anything. Now, THAT is broken!

Zerenza2 votes

They do not get revealed when they attack so long as the remain inside of her camo, that's why it's an issue, even if they did get revealed they just re stealth and as we know, again, from akali that's still really frustrating.

The ability is far from useless if she reveals herself when attacked, all it means is she'll have to play it like all other champions with Camo have to, you gotta dodge man. I main evelynn, i understand the strength of camo and i would LOVE if getting hit or CC'ed didn't break my Camo, it's broken strong to not get revealed from those things.

Doge20202 votes

Her Q is just a skillshot it doesn’t need an ally or enemy to cast. In the video Senna uses Q to kill Akali while she is invisible in her shroud, and Senna also uses Q under her tower (with no minions nearby) to heal herself right before a Cait ult hits her.

BBKong3 votes

{quoted}

From the skin spotlights video, Her Q is just a skillshot it doesn’t need an ally or enemy to cast. In the video Senna uses Q to kill Akali while she is invisible in her shroud, and Senna also uses Q under her tower (with no minions nearby) to heal herself right before a Cait ult hits her.

Look at the video more closely. To kill akali and kill the janna after, in BOTH clips, she places a ward down and then Qs the ward. She also is Qing the tower itself as it's an "ally". It can't be a coincidence because of the wards being placed down and then being Q'd on twice.

Doge20203 votes

Hmm guess I was wrong

I would honestly prefer it if Senna’s Q was a skillshot rather than a point and click ability, it would just flow much better to me and it can be used in more situations IMO

BBKong1 votes

{quoted}

Hmm guess I was wrong

I would honestly prefer it if Senna’s Q was a skillshot rather than a point and click ability, it would just flow much better to me and it can be used in more situations IMO

Yeah, we'll have to see how it is because I thought it was 100% fine as a skillshot or any target like Lucian Q, but it was just an interesting catch. I missed it the first time too

Cräfty1 votes

The Q being a point-and-click ability that works only on allied units/turrets/wards forces her into the supportive role more, which is Riot's intent anyway. If it was purely a free to use skillshot, that might cause balance problems and force her out of the support role to be an ADC, or even a solo laner, which goes against what the designers want for her to be. They even said that if Senna ends up being a problem as an ADC, they'll gut her down so that she can only be played as a support.

TL;DR: Riot wants her to be a support above anything else.

BBKong2 votes

Her using Qs on wards is an incredible catch actually, I had to rewatch it to go check and she does indeed only use Q on allies and even wards and Qs the ward to kill enemies. I think they'll need to slightly rework her E and maybe make the R not global but around ziggs or lux ult range, and I'd be fine with her then. Can be a really cool champion.

Also, they need to be VERY careful about how they balance her passive, or people will build her pure ADC and just take the bonus stats from it and be stupid strong.

bluefire mark 21 votes

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BBKong1 votes

[{quoted}](name=bluefire mark 2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eYN1a7xj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-29T21:09:42.385+0000)

Unclickable IS untargetable. Invulnerable is when they can't take damage. Both unclickable and untargetable are the same thing. How do you target someone? With clicking. If you can't target them you can't click them. Like fizz in e. And if you can't click them you can't target them

That's not how league really uses the term though.

Fizz hops on his trident towards the cursor, becoming briefly untargetable.

Official tooltip. He can still be killed by DOTs or stuff like 2nd hit of leblanc E, etc, so invulnerable doesn't work. But he can't be hit by abilities either. Unclickable means you can still get hit by non-point-and-click abilities, meanwhile champs with "untargetable" can only get hit by things with no projectile like leblanc/ignite if they were targeted with it beforehand. Same with Vladimir pool

Oh, and Ekko is different because his ult states that he's both untargetable and invulnerable.

Edit: I had a brainfart and forgot Fizz can dodge karthus ult, but the leblanc and ignite examples still stand along with stuff like fiddle drain.

Lord Zeta 13131 votes

Nope, it has been stated that it is different.

Also, SKILLSHOTS

Shahamut1 votes

I mean, sure. Whats not op about a teamwide mobile Akali shroud?

then when they all exit, you dont know who is who...

Modl Ryden l1 votes

Neeko has already set a trend for that. It may not be as robust but this skill has been derived from another one from the past.

Keiaga1 votes

I can only assume that the numbers on her kit will be low enough to justify all the things she can do but either way I think the issue with her is that she just seems to do....a little too much. Even if she ends up having the lowest damage and the lowest healing she has too much going on

3L11 votes

After watching BunnyFuFuu’s video on Senna, I can safely say her numbers are actually sort of low.

Her passive seems op on paper. A Kindred passive on steroids? Like what the hell? But it kinda helps balance Senna out to be a Support and Marksman. Despite BunnyFuFuu building full damage, her Ult doesn’t deal a whole lot of damage at all. Bunny barely chunked a Lee Sin that was at 1/5 of his health and his Q didn’t do much either. Her auto attacks have a pretty hefty charge up time, especially early game (although they do bonus dmg).

While I’m not saying she needs buffs, she’s definitely not gonna be a top tier damage dealer as of right now.

And that, I’m grateful for. I wanted Senna to be balanced, and thankfully that’s what I got.

Im trying to int

{quoted}

After watching BunnyFuFuu’s video on Senna, I can safely say her numbers are actually sort of low.

Her passive seems op on paper. A Kindred passive on steroids? Like what the hell? But it kinda helps balance Senna out to be a Support and Marksman. Despite BunnyFuFuu building full damage, her Ult doesn’t deal a whole lot of damage at all. Bunny barely chunked a Lee Sin that was at 1/5 of his health and his Q didn’t do much either. Her auto attacks have a pretty hefty charge up time, especially early game (although they do bonus dmg).

While I’m not saying she needs buffs, she’s definitely not gonna be a top tier damage dealer as of right now.

And that, I’m grateful for. I wanted Senna to be balanced, and thankfully that’s what I got.

Ever since the removal of the true damage from conqueror, and the abysmal state LDR and Mortal reminder are in play tank senna. Going tank allows you to survive in lane, and scale to the point where you straight up out damage and out range a full damage adc. Plus the fact you also get crit and lifesteal, making it only necessary to get pen items. You're not supposed to build damage, build tank and abuse the fact that pen items suck and that conq got it's true damage removed

GreatMrPie1 votes

I just want to say. I really like senna. She's a bold concept that I want to succeed. We dont know how she will be when she hits live servers but as Balance goes she is a difficult one to provide if you nerf her ADC stats you nerf her support even worse So my suggestion is to lower mist drop on minions YOU KILL much like the relic coin. Lastly the Q have it heal her only when it heals an allie. Thank you for reading.

Blæched Ashehole1 votes

aaaaaaaaaand you are completely wrong and shes utterly broken :) thx

It was me Dío2 votes

I disagree. She is trash as far as I have seen her.

Edit: just stalked your history, you are playing nothing but aram. Sorry but you legit have no idea how balanced a champion is if you only play fucking aram which is the most irrelevant gamemode in this game.

Blæched Ashehole1 votes

hardstuck d4 50% winrate in a dead season, with 38% winrate on her and an overall 2.x kda pls tell me how good you are at this game while playing 1k games at a coinflip, and yes im only playing aram on this account, cause its the one I spend my money on, not cause its the one im competing on lol, I forgot that your oppinion is obviously relevant here :)

Illabethe1 votes

She gets legit trashed by dive/dash comps.

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