I had a major argument within my premade. (long post)

Craft Zeppelin··2 votes·990 views

As the last day of this season, I had a large argument within my premade trio. And I need help in terms of making my decision. Where shall I start...my premade was merely a duo, where we were cranking up the tiers with our jung/mid picks. We had general respect towards each others tactics, and mechanics and even if we lost there seemed to be a way next time.

But one day I was introduced to this former "master" tier player which allegedly bought a account since he hasnt played league for two months and had his account hacked and sold off. (he also produced the screenshot of the said account) At first, I was thrilled of afforded a chance of playing with a person with a higher tier which I can learn so much to improve, but soon I had doubts growing from the results each match since our 60% score of winrates were dramatically dropping to a mere 33% for the past three weeks. (I started playing on my smurf since I sensed the shitstorm coming in)

After one certain loss after I just balls-out busted the enemy laner, I wasn't able to handle to frustration (it was a near 12 loss streak). So I engaged a argument to determine if my fears are true.

First of all, the major focal point. Why is he not able to handle his enemies at all and having the single yet massive KDA deficit. His : 4.4 / 6.6 / 4.3 Compared to mine: 6.3 / 4.4 / 10.2

The response was that he cannot adjust to players in this mid silver-gold elo and cant predict their movements. And he claims that even faker can't determine the gameplay and have a slight chance of being killed in lane. And when he goes ADC or support, his expectations are high that he cannot synch with his lane partner. I'm going to ask you this my community.** Is this even true?** When I was in the UK my diamond 3 friend got a sponsorship to play in tournaments he absolutely crushes opponents to submission, yet this former masters player complains about it and loses against damn silvers. Are high elo people unable to carry when placed in lower tiers?

Secondly, the biggest argument. I questioned his picks. He was making seriously audacious pick, but just for this match, I asked him in all respect is top azir the best pick against wukong top and lee jungle. So he questioned me what is wrong at all since it offers peel and engage in the same bucket. I claimed that current Azir has his numbers so toned down that it is literally impossible to carry, since he has like 40% winrate which actually goes down if you play more, and to top it all he did like 40% of my Jinx damage as a ranged carry. His answer was, that Azir is still picked in professional and has immense potential and utility, and is viable enough. As he picked azir 3rd, his own team should have adjusted to it. And that if I were to question viablity, then Jinx was not picked at all in professional play so my argument is denied. And that damage itself has no meaning towards the match if I did not win, and the adcs role is not to pile damage.

Am I being trolled here? like i can't even tell, since I'm so infuriated. The introduced person had indeed a massive amount of knowledge towards this game, but one thing is straight. I'm losing hard since I'm with this person. It's hard to explain why this happened here, since I'm that player who wins game by instinct. I know something is not right. But I cant just prove it and feel somewhat defeated to a person who is actually playing wierd and talking wierd. Or is this legit master tier logic?

10 Comments

Eraenis2 votes

If you feel defeated in an argument, that only means he is way better at arguing than you. I have a friend that is very similiar. He will always find a reason why he is totally right, and how he totally didn't make any mistake. Just don't argue with people like him. They will just try to be in the right by any means possible. They see arguing as a competition.

I am going to take a pretty wild guess here, so correct me if i am wrong: When he dropped that bullshit about how Jinx isn't played and azir is a good pick you couldn't answer right away because you where unsure. At the same time you felt like something just wasn't right about his argument. Afterwards you thought about it a bit, did some research and found his argument to be bullshit.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

If you feel defeated in an argument, that only means he is way better at arguing than you. I have a friend that is very similiar. He will always find a reason why he is totally right, and how he totally didn't make any mistake. Just don't argue with people like him. They will just try to be in the right by any means possible. They see arguing as a competition.

I am going to take a pretty wild guess here, so correct me if i am wrong: When he dropped that bullshit about how Jinx isn't played and azir is a good pick you couldn't answer right away because you where unsure. At the same time you felt like something just wasn't right about his argument. Afterwards you thought about it a bit, did some research and found his argument to be bullshit.

As a person who has a damn masters degree in real life, im so ashamed that I wasn`t able to counter-argument instantly to a false master tier XD. Good speculation on my emotions back there. That is totally what happened.

BananaSlayerAMO1 votes

Maybe this is insensitive, but it seems to me like you should...

ditch the bitch

https://67.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8o1rzFH761qiy0obo1_500.gif

Jax Cramer1 votes

Ofc he wasnt master lmao....no master player struggles in silver.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jax Cramer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eW2qPJdV,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-11-08T01:35:36.678+0000)

Ofc he wasnt master lmao....no master player struggles in silver.

My senses even though I am NOT foking spiderman knows this. But I feel miserable not able to counter argument points 1 and 2. like whats with this at all? can you help me out

Jax Cramer1 votes

The first point is complete bullshit...yes people in lower elos play different but they are just bad. When I smurf I have no problem stomping silver players and I am only Platinum on my main. If he really was master (which ofc he wasnt) he should easily be able to capitalize on the laning mistakes these people do....yes it is possible to get killed in lane occassionaly but if he consistently loses lane to these players there are no excuses.

As for the second point...Azir is a trollpick currently and I always dodge when someone on my team picks him whereas Jinx is one of the best adcs in the game and was also picked at worlds a couple times.

Just stop listening to him, he is just trying to get carried by you...and tell him to stop trying to make people believe he was master.

Limmie1 votes

Jinx was picked 12 times in this worlds tournament, what the hell was he on about.

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

Jinx was picked 12 times in this worlds tournament, what the hell was he on about.

The most stupid part is that I dont give a hell about tournament scenes or faker. And all I see is some hard-failing azir and this was supposed to be the argument, but he shifted the subject since he is "master". How I'm supposed to catch up to this.

He also claimed he didint pick azir with the intent to carry, so low winrates dont matter and would not transition to game results. like wtf did I just hear?

DeathBurst1 votes

Well, either he is not Master at all, or he is Master only due to being a mechanical god and is the most brain-dead player I've ever heard about. If you want my honest opinion, the first hypothesis is more likely.

'cause he's right on pretty much everything he said in theory, but if he can't understand that Master- and pro-tiers theory doesn't apply in Silver, he's stupid. Yeah, of course Silver players don't react the same way as Masters, but you should be so much better than them that you don't need to predict their every moves to win, unless you're taking some stupid risks. Of course, if he goes bot-lane, his duo-laner will be trash, compared to him. I guess you just have to take bigger margin of security, then? Of course Azir still has its uses in pro-play, but he is NOT playing in pro-play, so how is that a valid argument? And even if it was, Azir is not picked TOP in pro-play. If he picked 3rd in an organized team, maybe his team should have accommodated him, but not in the bloody Ranked ladder. And viability in pro-play is not the same thing as in Ranked, so calling Jinx un-viable is the biggest bullsh*t.

Seriously, you can't complain about Silver being bad on one hand, and then the line after put the burden of being smart and knowledgeable on them on the other hand.

For the records: I barely reached Gold5, my real MMR once stabilized is probably around Silver1, and even I can consistently carry up to Silver4. I believe that a true Master player with even a modicum of brain and adaptability should be able to solo-carry 80% of games up to high Gold, at least. Have a look at this video and other on the same channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn76uKUgGYo

Also, this has nothing to do with skills, but I'd still be wary around someone involved in hacked/bought/etc. account. You need to be pretty naive (or stupid) to get hacked, buying account isn't allowed, and participating in this kind of business isn't smart anyway.

(He's right on the fact that looking at damage isn't a good argument, though. Damage dealt is just a symptom, a sign helping to understand what happened, it's not a goal in itself. The guy who get fed early and then stupidly tries to 1v4 and throw the game may well have the highest damage in the game, he's still the reason his team lost.)

Craft Zeppelin1 votes

{quoted}

Well, either he is not Master at all, or he is Master only due to being a mechanical god and is the most brain-dead player I've ever heard about. If you want my honest opinion, the first hypothesis is more likely.

Seriously, you can't complain about Silver being bad on one hand, and then the line after put the burden of being smart and knowledgeable on them on the other hand. For the records: I barely reached Gold5, my real MMR once stabilized is probably around Silver1, and even I can consistently carry up to Silver4. I believe that a true Master player with even a modicum of brain and adaptability should be able to solo-carry 80% of games up to high Gold, at least. Have a look at this video and other on the same channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bn76uKUgGYo

Also, this has nothing to do with skills, but I'd still be wary around someone involved in hacked/bought/etc. account. You need to be pretty naive (or stupid) to get hacked, buying account isn't allowed, and participating in this kind of business isn't smart anyway.

I have just had discussion with a close plat/dia friend that I can totally trust and made analysis. Found out that said person was recently making a trend of picking identical champions of the former user of the account. Say, kindred azir vayne thresh and bard. And the account went into gold 5 with 736wins 722losses. And his KDA and recent winrate matches this previous owner. That is something quite horrid really.

And yeah, I agree. A person who can actually move his tier by his will to gold or above actually has total control over his opponents, as you said. Even I can totally screw the enemy using my main champions which is Vel and Syndra with a near 60% winrate. I totally cant see the reason why diamond/plat/golds can destroy silvers in a matter of minutes, but a master tier can't. So well, I just took a look at his last match of the season which he used Ahri against TF and had his ass handed over, while his team was obliterated by...an 11 kill urgot. Man, this is ludicrous.

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