@Riot, Jhin's Passive

CrazedPorcupine··4 votes·1,240 views

Riot, you finally have the opportunity to help remove a champion's cookie cutter ADC buildpath through their passive, and instead you make it so that the cookie cutter ADC build works just as well on Jhin as it does on every single other champion.

Jhin's passive currently means that AS increases don't increase his attack rate at all, but instead when Jhin crits (including on his 4th auto), he gains bonus MS. Sweet, that's unique. He attacks at a static rate all game. That's cool. I read on, then saw this.

Jhin's AS increases his AD

I'm sorry, but WHAT WERE YOU THINKING? You tried this with Azir and his CDR/AS passive, which you eventually got rid of entirely and put onto his W. You HATE conversion passives, and honestly, either the effect is powerful enough to make it worth while so that he ends up building 3 AS items and IE or is so weak that the only AS people will get is Beserker's and Yomouu's Active.

Personally, I missed the AS->AD conversion passive at first and was frankly kind of excited at an ADC who's buildpath would have been IE->BT->Mercurial->Yomouu's->Boots->Mortal Reminder or some variation of that order.

I was excited because, he got a 4th attack that was a guaranteed crit, AS not affecting his attack rate meaning that it wouldn't be a good purchase on him, and his Autos needing to really pack a hyper powerful punch, but no, you added this AS->AD conversion passive.

so the question I have is:

WHY?

EDIT: I'm complaining about Jhin's AS-AD Conversion passive. Riot has gone out of their way to remove Conversion passives whenever possible, They removed Kayle's AP<->AD passive years ago, they removed Xerath's AP->Armor passive with his rework, and want to get rid of Galio's MR->AP passive eventually too. They eventually Removed Azir's CDR->AS passive as well and instead just made it so he get's a flat %AS per rank in W instead. Riot has never gotten a Stat Conversion passive to work properly. it's either so OP that it locks a champion into specific builds that if they leave the build, they're doing suboptimal and it's incredibly noticible, or it's not noticible and simply optimizes champion's build paths without affecting them in a meaningful way.

Vlad's HP<->AP passive is one that historically was so overbearing that when it got nerfed, it's simply made it so that he favors HP/AP items a little bit more than he used to, but he essentially builds what every other mage does that likes to get Tanky AP.

Eventually Jhin's AS->AD conversion WILL get nerfed, or removed. it happened with Azir, it'll happen again.

18 Comments

DevlinCrow4 votes

This champion has gone through possibly months of development, with tons of detail gone into teasers and making him one of the most memorable releases for a long time, and the first thing you do is moan?

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Don't get me wrong, I love the rest of his Kit, as it's refreshing and unique, But when people have been complaining about cookie cutter builds for ADC's for literally since season 1, I'd have expected Riot to design an ADC where the standard ADC build IS NOT WHAT IS MEANT TO BE BUILT.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

as this is the first instance where actual feedback on the champ-design/gameplay can be uttered - criticising it right away isn´t out of order. Unfortunatelly that´s riots model of communicating right now...hyping their surprises and then hiding if the community isn´t just silently admiring them or outright applauding.

J Eevo2 votes

I'd also like to add that Jhin's passive homogenizes both as and crit items into "ATTACK DAMAGE" items - Jhin CANNOT CRIT unless with his 4th shot (which deals reduced damage for a crit apparently)

WHICH IS GREAT BECAUSE RNG CRITICAL CHANCE IS A STUPID CONCEPT

Brimaz The King1 votes

his basic attacks CAN crit.

J Eevo1 votes

I AM NO LONGER HAPPY, THANK YOU FOR CLARIFYING THAT FOR ME. He still gets more from crit because it buffs his ms when critting (which scales with critical chance? wording on that one is weird)

Brimaz The King1 votes

you mean AS not MS. edit: you're right his crits does give him MS.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

i still don't quite understand what his passive means tbh crazed.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

His passive means that His AS is locked in at a set amount throughout the entire game. Any AS/Crit items he builds simply Increase his AD instead of increasing his attack rate. He also can't randomly crit.

He has a mix of Ashe's and Graves' passives. With some unique stuff of his own thrown in.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

ah, thanks

Earl Eulrich1 votes

i think they are sort of looking for ways to make crit work without RNG (at least i hope that´s what they´re doing) - but it still feels rather forced that way. I liked the ashe model of crit->multiplier better, it just leaves more freedom for design and itemization (though they shamefully paddled back on it by making the slow crit-rng in the marksmen update -.-).

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

I don't mind Jhin not getting random crits, and I'm fine with crit->AD conversion, but AS->AD conversion for me is a big, NO.

I saw the reveal as "A true sniper" and was like, COOL UNIQUE BUILD! But then I saw that the passive encourages cookie cutter build, and was like, great, an ADC that plays unique, but builds just like every other. Joy.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

that´s pretty much a design-error they already have shown in the marksmen-update - they seem to design specifically around the cookie-cutter crit builds only, champions and items alike (e.g. making trinity a crit item instead of a bruiser-item, ER a crit item instead of an ad-caster item while basically adding crit-scaling to anything the marksmen do).

I also feel this is really the wrong direction and will probably make me leave this game soon.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

Trinity has always been a crit item, And the Trinity users have historically been Bruisers, not ADCs. (See MetaGolem back in season 2, where every fighter and their mother bought Trinity Force)

Fighters have actually relied heavily on OP random procs to make them win fights. This is what meant that TF was so broken on fighters, whoever got the Phage proc first won. Most fighters don't want on hits. Do you see them building Wit's end? BotRK? No, you see them building Hydra items, (Shyvanna and WW are unique in that they scale overbearingly well with onhits). You see them build items that give immediate power. They want sheen procs, Occaision massive spikes in damage through luck in crit chance.

That's why Riot didn't make Trinity an On-hit building out of Recurve bow, because no fighter bought it anymore because it felt bad to purchase.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

trinity had 10%for thematics sake. And every bruiser complained about the RNG it had - so they removed the phage-procc and made it a certainity. and al was well on the rift...until:

with the marksmen update then they did two horrible thing:

  • they reintroduced the rng-phage-proc they once had declared toxic on Ashe´s passive
  • they increased the only unreliable element trinity still had and took away some reliability instead...making it less appealing to many champ it had been core formerly and even the few adcs that wanted to buy it for the sake of god knows what. The reason no fighter buys it any longer (except some melee-carry fighters like jax and irelia that can snowball out of controll with a little critluck) are the changes they made, not that hydra is more popular. they could have easily done away with crit in exchange for the cdr and every one of the old users would have been insanly happy with the item.
CrazedPorcupine1 votes

they only hated the RNG with the slow. Which was what really broke the item. That's why Phage and Trinity got reworked to a consistant haste instead.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

none of the actual bruiser do want the 10%crit, neither do Ez and corki (though currently they are forced to want it as there´s just no option to not stack crit). It didn´t keep them away from the item because everything else had been great for them, but they certainly buy it for the crit.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Eulrich,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eUbdH8IA,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-01-12T20:15:20.256+0000)

that´s pretty much a design-error they already have shown in the marksmen-update - they seem to design specifically around the cookie-cutter crit builds only, champions and items alike (e.g. making trinity a crit item instead of a bruiser-item, ER a crit item instead of an ad-caster item while basically adding crit-scaling to anything the marksmen do).

I also feel this is really the wrong direction and will probably make me leave this game soon.

Don't forget they also made MF's ult able to crit as well lol

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