Revive Discussion

CrazedPorcupine··31 votes·1,687 views

This is meant to be a meaningful discussion on what could have been done to make revive a useful spell worth taking. I am not actually very happy with it's removal, because now I feel like if riot thinks a spell is considered trash by the more skilled player base, what's keeping them from removing {{summoner:2}} summoner 13?

Revive was not a very common spell. The biggest problem was that it's cooldown was a whopping 9 minutes long. It's had moments of shining glory from time to time, but it's always been considered trolly/niche rather than a spell that could be exchanged for ignite, exhaust, heal or barrier.

My suggestion would have been this: Make Revive's cooldown 3-4 minutes, but when you use it, the time left on your death timer is added to your next death. OR make the cooldown scale with level, changing from 9 minutes at level 1, to 4.5 minutes at level 18. Making it worth taking as you'd get to use it.

Well community, do you think that removing Revive as a summoner spell was a good decision? or do you think that riot should have done some change to it to make it worth taking? Or do you think that Riot should add the Revive Trinket from Dominion onto summoner's rift as an optional purchase where it still has limited charges?

Seeing the removal of Revive has essentially told us that Riot doesn't care about trying to buff the underused summoner spells, and would just prefer to remove them over buffing them or making them desirable.

23 Comments

Star PlatinumELO15 votes

I just feel it is an unnecessary removal, if you want to use it you should be allowed to, in those other maps and modes this game has, this spell can be useful (damn aram Karthus...) and potentially game sealing, just because something is not good in summoners rift, does not mean it should be removed and forgotten by riot.

If riot is removing it for its underuse I feel they should look around for solutions, and here seems like a good place to start.

However for now it must be said: rip in pepperinoes {{summoner:10}}

Keevalroy7 votes

{quoted}

However for now it must be said: rip in pepperinoes {{summoner:10}}

We shouldn't have to say that at all. They had no legitimate reason to remove it.

CrazedPorcupine14 votes

I agree, Riot didn't even state why they removed it, they just up and said, SURPRISE Revive is getting removed tomorrow, Say goodbye!

I want at least Riot to explain WHY they're removing Revive.

Keevalroy2 votes

As I explained in another thread, 'no one picked it' when clairvoyance and clarity are still in the game, and it's unhealthy while Zed, Lee, and Kalista are allowed to exist on the roster as is. If you're expecting an answer, they can't give one because given those reasons, their logic wouldn't make much sense.

RipReviveFkRito6 votes

As a Karthus player, this patch makes me sad.

Beekeeper Singed4 votes

For the last year I have sat back and said nothing while you buffed all the things I hated and nerfed all of the things I like.

But to remove the one thing that has kept me playing this game for a year with not even so much as an explaination may be unforgivable. For the last year all I've played in ranked has been TP/Revive Karthus, and it has been my secret weapon. Every game, someone says "why revive" or "dont take revive" etc, but then when its used to make a big play late game and completely turn the tide of a game they understand.

And now its gone. Presumably because you thought noone would care. Well I for one care. And today you have hurt me Riot. For no reason. Hopefully you will consider bringing it back if others like me create a fuss, but I'm sure you will just somehow buff Kat or Zed more instead.

We will miss you revive.

Keevalroy3 votes

Enjoying the tribute stream by the creator of Revive/TP Karthus before it's gone... http://www.twitch.tv/PhantomL0rd

Mahautsukai2 votes

Physician heal thyself.

{{summoner:10}} uses {{summoner:10}} and {{summoner:10}} s!

Fundamentally the problem with Revive is its a gamble on use that focuses on a fail state with an insanely large cool-down for what it does. To breath life into it i'd lean on either it giving the recently deceased a steroids-buff or gold boost or redact the gold gained when you died. Something that turns it's fail-state reactive nature into a safety/recovery style net.

MeesterMoo1 votes

"To breath life into it."

Arcade Andrew2 votes

Revive was useless and 75% of trolls used it for feeding, now its gone and I dont care

NoMonku2 votes

I feel revive was removed because it is toxic. In general your team doesn't like it taken, but late game is is INCREDIBLY OP if utilized correctly. A bruiser like Jax can easily kamikaze into the enemy team, die, then tp/revive back in after the other team blew everything on him. There is no counterplay to it and yes, you can argue that it's strategy, but I don't really feel the game is balanced around revive being around. The only real counters to it are to be so far ahead that it doesn't matter in which case revive doesn't make a difference or to fight so catch them and kill them, in which case revive won't really matter since that champion can't 1v5 anyways. To me all it does is either drag out the game or creates unfair scenarios for a team that played out a fight correctly.

SanKakU2 votes

{quoted}

I feel revive was removed because it is toxic. In general your team doesn't like it taken, but late game is is INCREDIBLY OP if utilized correctly. A bruiser like Jax can easily kamikaze into the enemy team, die, then tp/revive back in after the other team blew everything on him. There is no counterplay to it and yes, you can argue that it's strategy, but I don't really feel the game is balanced around revive being around. The only real counters to it are to be so far ahead that it doesn't matter in which case revive doesn't make a difference or to fight so catch them and kill them, in which case revive won't really matter since that champion can't 1v5 anyways. To me all it does is either drag out the game or creates unfair scenarios for a team that played out a fight correctly.

I don't really think it's unfair because some players are very toxic and will ensure their team dies if that's what it takes to get them the kills, they want that ego boost. So players that are victims of that can revive and make a difference. And I played a lot of Dota 2 and buyback is a thing all heroes can do, it just costs gold and there are cooldown limits on it and the gold cost increases as time goes on. There is even a gold loss function when you lose your hero in order to help prevent too many buybacks. In League it simply required a spell slot and made the game quite a bit easier to play when with selfish players. I don't think Revive was too strong, you had to get Homeguard(and even then you should really have a mobility spell in your champion's kit on top of that) to make it worth your while. Might as well remove Homeguard while you're at it.

In Dota 2, there are a lot of players that abuse the buyback option, sure. They still do it every single day. The troll tactic is often referred to as either rage buyback or die-back(as in you buyback only to die immediately). Just because some players misuse the spell, Riot ruins it for everyone by removing it? Looks like a punishment problem, not a design problem to me. You can argue about 'toxic strategies' all you want, but to me the only toxic strategies are those that involve planning to lose. In League, there are far away objectives that you simply can't reach with only Revive. In Dota 2, a lot of the time a buyback will be reserved for the late game defense of your base in order to make a comeback. It's completely different since you don't have to have the same level of mobility to make a great play.

When you tell us things like "the game isn't balanced around Revive" what you are really telling us is that Riot is intentionally nerfing champions like Rammus, Twisted Fate, Teemo, and so on(wait, you guys do it for team fight bullies like Karthus and Kog'Maw, burning an additional Summoner Spell? Even more investment I tell you), because their mobility kits and team fight potential are overpowered to the point of toxic in the sense of preventing counter play at the moment. Do you really believe that? Even if that were all true, what about the Quintessence Runes? The ones that shave off a percentage of your death timer. Why are they a thing still and why do people not get refunds on the runes of that type which they own while Revive is removed?

{quoted}

Except, why take CV when Blue trinket exists? Why take Clarity when blue buff, and mana regen items exist or you can play a resourceless champion that doesn't need it.

Even in ARAM I rarely see people take Clarity because the health shrines also give mana.

Clairvoyance is definitely the one that should either see a remake, or just get removed. Clarity should just be limited to ARAM(like Garrison is limited to Dominion), and probably buffed in some way to do something for champions that don't have mana, since those are so common nowadays. Maybe give a movement speed boost. And just straight up remove Heal from ARAM. Despite the nerfs people will take it anyway.

Ignite(I think so anyway) and Smite(if you upgrade your Machete to the red weapon) now track the enemy, and Clairvoyance doesn't even do that. Even there is a Trinket that tracks. Revive is a good spell, Clairvoyance is not. I guess we can all hope this is a mistake in writing the patch notes, but we'll find out tomorrow I guess. Either way, I expect to see an apology eventually from them as this makes no sense. The only thing that really comes to mind that would make some sense to me for why they really want to do this but don't want to tell anyone the reason would be they don't want a specific mechanic in the game that is like Dota 2. Dota 2 has a professional scene that is constantly using buyback option, much like the League of Legends professional scene is constantly using Flash for a Summoner Spell. Riot has probably noticed that the type of fans that love Flash also hate Revive. Who knows, maybe Revive just needs a flashier name to it.

Buyback is not always the answer, and Flash is not always the answer. However, it seems Riot makes the rules and now Revive(buyback) is no longer an option. I feel it is a bad decision.

Chaotic Reks1 votes

RIP Triple Revive Zac Zilean Anivia

Daedalus8711 votes

Aatrox item 3070

flibitydoo1 votes

{{summoner:2}} will always exist because it does see some use for global nukers such as ezreal or karthus.

summoner 13 will always be useful so long as mana exists as a stat and fountain healing doesn't work on howling abyss

CrazedPorcupine7 votes

Except, why take CV when Blue trinket exists? Why take Clarity when blue buff, and mana regen items exist or you can play a resourceless champion that doesn't need it.

Even in ARAM I rarely see people take Clarity because the health shrines also give mana.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

well, CV has a shorter cooldown, larger AOE, and can see enemies in bush...

Jungle Lux God1 votes

Revive wasn't a case of Riot removing underused summoner spells. Revive was a case of an underused summoner spell that could never be strong, because if it was strong, then it would be OP.

Spells like Clarity and Clairvoyance are also underused, but they can be tuned that they could potentially be strong in the future, but the way that players use only a limited amount of summoner spells also makes it easy for Riot to balance the rest of the game. I can't say that Riot is cheap for not changing them, but I personally think that there are greater benefits of fixing other portions of the game (ie. the horrendous jungle) than bringing up some underused summoner spells.

Sukishoo1 votes

Was actually OP in only one instance, and that was on URF Mode...before they removed it from there when that mode was playable.

Tin Tarantino1 votes

The difference with {{summoner:10}} is that unlike {{summoner:2}} summoner 13 it provided no in combat stats or map control, it's one of those game elements that requires the person taking it to plan on dying, similar to fast hands or runic blessing. {{summoner:10}} is good for testing purposes but not good for much in a regular game.

CrazedPorcupine1 votes

The thing is, Death is nearly inevitable in League. Even Dota 2 has a revive function tied to the buyback system.

Tin Tarantino1 votes

It's still better to aim to avoid death through things like defensive summoners than to just try to make up for it after the fact, summoner 21 summoner 7 and summoner 1 would all be better options, you want to reduce the times you die rather than just the time spent dead.

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