Can we remove lee sin's ability to flash during his ult animation?

Dasdi96·Jul 17, 2016·73 votes·5,540 views

If I am not allowed to flash when being kicked then he should also not be allowed. This will give him more counterplay.

121 Comments

SnowplosionJul 17, 201611 votes

Lee Sin just needs more counterplay...

god the community hates Lee way too much

Voluug13Jul 17, 20162 votes

Maybe with more counterplay and weakness windows Lee can be buffed out of being a 1 trick pony that needs to get 1-2 kills before 7minutes to do something other that being an insec bot.

SnowplosionJul 17, 20167 votes

Maybe, but he already has a ton of counterplay and it takes so much god damn skill to play him mediocrely, let alone well.

Battlecast SonaJul 17, 20166 votes

the problem is that his biggest, flashiest play (R flash) has very muddled counterplay that's only accessible by reading the forums, and that's something that Riot generally claims they try to shy away from. I mean, there's literally nothing in the game to indicate that if I QSS right as Lee kicks me I can flash - nothing, and yet that's the counterplay to getting R Flashed. what needs to happen is that his counterplay needs to be evened out across all of his abilities so that his other abilities can feel more impactful again (because his ultimate isn't this big mess of convoluted mechanics). I honestly think that it's a lot of hidden power and that Lee pays for it in a lot of ways that are probably hampering his kit more than being able to R Flash helps his kit, since he has other methods of entering a fight and getting a good kick target.

RoodToobJul 18, 20162 votes

QSS says it removes all disables. Theres nothing telling you that a stun can be QSS'd without you buying the item and using/reading it. Same thing as Lee sin's kick. Its a sort of Crowd control. It counts as a knock up. All knock ups work in the same way ( i don't blame you for not knowing this) If you QSS a knock-up, you can then flash away. Also, the actual knock up is gone, which is why if you QSS fast enough, a Yasuo cannot ult you.

Voluug13Jul 18, 20162 votes

It doesnt remove displacements. it removes the stun from them.

Lee's R has a stun that few people (comparing playerbase and board/reddit users) know about.

IS3E531E3F964391Jul 18, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin just needs more counterplay...

god the community hates Lee way too much

can you blame them? whenever he gets unpopular he gets buffed while the majority of other weaker champions are left to rot.

A little PeepoJul 18, 20163 votes

{quoted}

Lee Sin just needs more counterplay...

god the community hates Lee way too much

No, he needs a remake. His kit is just extremely unfair for the people playing against him and the person playing lee. His identity is just everywhere and his insect plays being the only thing that keeps him viable is just stupid for both sides.

archerno1Jul 17, 201610 votes

U can flash his kick as long as u remove his stun. They did that quite alot in pro play. Once Lee kicks you, just QSS and flash.

CppLJul 17, 201610 votes

{quoted}

U can flash his kick as long as u remove his stun. They did that quite alot in pro play. Once Lee kicks you, just QSS and flash.

Why the fuck does he have a stun in the first place??

MissingKayoJul 17, 201619 votes

So that the kick actually works and people don't just move out of the way during the animation? lmao

DrackolusJul 18, 20164 votes

If you don't think the riot programmers can program "can't walk but can flash," you must really have no faith in them.

MissingKayoJul 18, 20161 votes

Implying Riot ever gives reason to put faith in them

XeruonJul 17, 20163 votes

After every knockup/knockback, there's a brief period after landing in which you are disabled because the game considers you still airborne, this duration changes for every champion.

KING 5HARKJul 17, 20163 votes

Hes talking about the root during the kick animation, not the travel time during the knockback

XeruonJul 18, 20161 votes

Then why did he call it a stun?

R FLASH XDJul 18, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Why the fuck does he have a stun in the first place??

do you prefer it to be just a knockback so you can't qss it?

DrCyanideJul 17, 20165 votes

You mean it's possible in a 3ms ping environment, but not for anyone else...

archerno1Jul 17, 20166 votes

{quoted}

You mean it's possible in a 3ms ping environment, but not for anyone else...

Its possible for skilled players.

DrCyanideJul 17, 20162 votes

Do you have a video of someone doing it at 50 ms ping or greater? Because I'm pretty sure once the displacement starts you wouldn't be able to flash.

statelesskillerJul 17, 20162 votes

i mean. i have seen boxbox qss a condem from vayne. not the stun part. but the moment the projectile hit the riven model to startt he knock back he qssed it. which is basically the same thing

Hayaishi2Jul 17, 201610 votes

Let's remove every mechanic in LoL.

rtbf22147970Jul 18, 20162 votes

God forbid people learn to play the game...

kJsJul 17, 20169 votes

I was surprised to learn that you cast R and then flash to do an Insec. You would think it would be the other way around.

DrCyanideJul 17, 20162 votes

That's the thing with targeted abilities, they all go off when you get in range if you casted them outside of range.

kJsJul 17, 20161 votes

idk can you do that midway Kha'Zix Q?

KING 5HARKJul 17, 20161 votes

Yes you can flash mid khaQ afaik

GULAG 4 UJul 17, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING 5HARK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eT2VpUNH,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2016-07-17T19:22:19.350+0000)

Yes you can flash mid khaQ afaik

you can but you'll still take damage

KING 5HARKJul 18, 20161 votes

Actually I think if hes halfway through and you time your flash perfectly you can avoid the damage, I think its also influenced by wether or not you leave vision but I'm not sure on that

GULAG 4 UJul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=KING 5HARK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eT2VpUNH,comment-id=000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-18T11:40:43.750+0000)

Actually I think if hes halfway through and you time your flash perfectly you can avoid the damage, I think its also influenced by wether or not you leave vision but I'm not sure on that

I think it's possible to avoid it if you flash out of kha'zix's vision, but otherwise no.

Battlecast SonaJul 17, 20168 votes

this is actually not the interaction occurring with Lee Sin's kick. You're talking about input buffering, which is what a Vayne player uses to condemn Alistar every time he tries to headbutt - headbutt range is longer than condemn so you push condemn on alistar and if he pushes headbutt you will instantly knock him away.

The reason R Flash works on Lee is because your target is rooted for a split second after you push R on them, but before they're actually kicked - and this is what OP wants to remove, or at least make it immobilize Lee as well so he can't flash - the problem being that while I'm rooted I can't flash but he can, so even if I try to reaction Flash his Flash (which is pretty hard) I have to also hit QSS before he does it but after he pushes R. It's a really high amount of skill required to counterplay something that is fairly simple for the Lee to do.

Guy Fox TeemoJul 17, 20167 votes

really??? REALLY? Are people STILL Complaining about lee sin? I honestly thought the boards got past the circle jerk of Lee Sin being OP honestly; How dumb are you people.

Literally like EVERY Champion can do what Lee does if there ability is instant.

Biff ManlyJul 18, 20165 votes

He's not OP, he's just no fun to play against. Like the boards hate Teemo. Teemo is by no means dominant in this meta, or any meta for the past 2 years, but nobody likes having to put up with his shit.

Lee Sin receives the same reaction because he's a sticky, 7-ability-having, pub-stomping, low-cooldown-having pizza shit.

8BitDapJul 17, 20166 votes

Lmfao that these posts are still upvoted. The only thing that makes Lee Sin good is his early pressure, and his ultimate to catch people out. This literally makes Lee Sin garbage tier. Not only that, but it's not like he's overcrowding other picks or anything, maybe in Diamond+ but Lee Sin isn't played at all below that.

KING 5HARKJul 17, 20163 votes

Or you could actually practice wardjumping for the same effect without some bullshit "mechanic"

8BitDapJul 17, 20165 votes

You do realize, Lee Sin has to blow a 5 minute summoner cooldown for this "bull shit" mechanic right? It's a game changing mechanic that's for the most part only effective at high elos.

Pierce The VealJul 17, 20169 votes

{quoted}

You do realize, Lee Sin has to blow a 5 minute summoner cooldown for this "bull shit" mechanic right? It's a game changing mechanic that's for the most part only effective at high elos.

Yet the person on the receiving end also has to blow a 5 minute summoner cooldown to try to avoid it, but Riot decided that wasn't fair; only lee sin should be able to do that.

IAMS4T4NJul 17, 20167 votes

{quoted}

Lmfao that these posts are still upvoted. The only thing that makes Lee Sin good is his early pressure, and his ultimate to catch people out. This literally makes Lee Sin garbage tier. Not only that, but it's not like he's overcrowding other picks or anything, maybe in Diamond+ but Lee Sin isn't played at all below that.

what hes like the 8th most played champion in all elos

8BitDapJul 17, 20162 votes

With a 46%~ win rate average in all elos. He's not even a threat unless this Lee Sin has played 125+ games, and if somebody dedicates that much time to a champion they deserve to have an above 50% win rate.

LatetotheRaceJul 17, 20162 votes

He's a niche champion and as such he has a niche win rate. If riot were to give him a rework then his winrate could go up, and his toxicity could go down.

kJsJul 18, 20161 votes

How would know what the rework would entail? Can you see into the future, into what Riot would do if they rewrok Lee Sin? You can't assert that if he was reworked his win rate would go up unless you know the impacts of the rework into Lee Sin's gameplay. His rework could be done absolutely horribly.

LatetotheRaceJul 18, 20161 votes

what are you talking about bro? Pretty much every rework they've done has put their win rate at 50%+ for a little while at least. But I think the goal would be to make him a bit more well rounded without having to rely on poorly conceived mechanics like infinite mobility via wards.

kJsJul 18, 20161 votes

What I was really trying to get at (which I hoped I didn't need to elaborate on) is that winrate 50%+ doesn't guarantee its balance, it has clarity™ or it has"Feel good™" factor for the game and its players. Plus there have been many rework cases where within the boundaries of the champion, Riot has failed to meet those requirements, such as the 2nd Ryze kit overhaul. Another is the kit overhaul of Cassiopeia before the latest one.

devdev463Jul 17, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Lmfao that these posts are still upvoted. The only thing that makes Lee Sin good is his early pressure, and his ultimate to catch people out. This literally makes Lee Sin garbage tier. Not only that, but it's not like he's overcrowding other picks or anything, maybe in Diamond+ but Lee Sin isn't played at all below that.

All they're trying to say is that it's a dumb mechanic and should not be factored into his overall power budget. Nothing about how big the actual power budget is.

P4ppinoJul 18, 20161 votes

I'm assuming that you imply that Lee's power budget is on the level of most champions', so why is this mechanic a problem afterall?

devdev463Jul 18, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=SS Pappino,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eT2VpUNH,comment-id=000600020000,timestamp=2016-07-18T01:11:47.361+0000)

I'm assuming that you imply that Lee's power budget is on the level of most champions', so why is this mechanic a problem afterall?

Naw I'm implying that Lee sin should get a buff and this mechanic should be removed because it's not a good mechanic. If Lee sin is UP after removing the mechanic the power should be re distributed elsewhere.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20161 votes

You are allowed to flash while being kicked. You're not allowed to flash whilst being knocked back i.e., whilst CCed.

MiraweaveJul 18, 20163 votes

{quoted}

You are allowed to flash while being kicked. You're not allowed to flash whilst being knocked back i.e., whilst CCed.

Nope, you can't flash during the kick animation before the knockback actually occurs. Only lee can.

BloodyTomponJul 18, 20161 votes

I'm pretty sure you can and the kick still goes off but in a different direction. I'm about 90% sure I've seen that interaction.

Hmm. The wiki does say the opponent is rooted for the duration. It could be wrong, or maybe I'm mistaken in thinking I've seen the interaction.

morris1Jul 18, 20161 votes

The target is stunned during the animation. I've killed a Lee ulting me as a Katarina with my own ult; my ultimate got cancelled afterwards even though he didn't knock me back.