I'm considering taking the dodge penalty if I get first pick when playing top. Matchups are so binary in the lane it isn't remotely fun. More than any other role, top is won by matchup. Mid can roam, bot has a support, and junglers can afk farm or ward entrances and just stay away from counterjunglers. The most top can do is go for a cheesy tp gank while the enemy laner takes first tower gold for free.
JackMcSnipeyz5 votesWell, didnt you guys say you wanted a 1v1 fest? That's what happens, the better match up has the upper hand in lane, this isnt exclusive to top. What's exclusive to top is the isolation, but you guys seem to like it because everytime top gets focused by jungler/mid the boards are filled with people crying on how they are getting ganked and cant have their 1v1.
Warlord Scrap4 votesBut but i only want a 1v1 when i can win the matchup if im losing my jger has to gank constantly
JackMcSnipeyz2 votesYep, that pretty much sums the vocal part of the toplane mains.
nelogis2 votesWell it still isn't a 1 v 1 fest so even if top laners wanted that they still haven't gotten it.
Having said that yes they want more of a 1 v 1 but they want a fun 1 v 1. It isn't fun to fight a full armor Malphite as Trundle belive it or not.
Next thing is the argument of counterpicks. Now don't get me wrong, counterpicks have existed in this game since the beginning. The difference was that almost every (especially important in top lane) champion had a clear "uptime" or "downtime".
Champions without a clear uptime/downtime or no uptime/downtime at all were considered toxic and frustrating to play against (Teemo/Panth). Riot has abandoned the concept of uptime/downtime for a long time now and you slowly see the problems it creates.
But what do I mean with uptime?
Trundles uptime is his Ice arena (and ult). As soon as he activates it he gains a lot of dueling power which the opponent has to avoid but after that he is vulnerable for the next 10 seconds or so.
Jaxs uptime is his counterstrike.
Yi/Aatrox uptimes are their ults
Illaoi uptime is her spirit grab or whatever that is + her ult
Irelias uptime (right now) is her attack steroid
Now there are also champions with "heavy spell" kits like Darius, Renekton. These guys have high impact spells but on long cooldowns. These guys want to have short trades because instead of uptimes they have downtimes. When the spells are on cooldown they are super vulnerable and have to wait for the spells to come back online.
"Dude what are you trying to say" Just wait a sec I'm getting to the point
The next thing that has been thrown out of the window is the concept of early game / mid game / late game.
Most tanks were mid to late game champions, most bruisers were early to mid game champions (with exceptions like Nasus/Jax). Early game was around 1-2 items, mid game was 3-4 items and late game was 4+ items. (right now mid game is at like 1.5 items or so, excluding boots)
So by nature, bruisers used to counter tanks. Imagine like every tank was a Nasus, all they wanted to do was farm and scale (keep this in mind).
Ok so that meant that almost every champion was able to be classified as early/mid/late game champion AND you were able to see when to avoid that said champion and when to engage and force a fight.
Riot at some point just abandoned these concepts, I can show you some examples here.
Fiora:
Fiora had a downtime when she had used her dashes up and used her parry and was a rather mid game oriented champion with a tendency of being a better early champion than your average joe.
Fiora right now has absolutely no downtime because her healing, movementspeed and damage comes from her passive, she also never runs out of dashes. She is basically strong in every phase of the game with being stronger than just strong in the mid game.
Vladimir:
Engaging on Vladimir was a relatively easy thing to do because for one he didn't have this empowered Q thing and 2. His E stacks were an important thing to keep in mind especially in the early game. When he had max E stacks he would chunk himself for a lot of HP when casting it so engaging at that point and forcing out a pool which resulted in a 20 second downtime for the Vladimir. Vlad was a mid to late game monster and had one of the weakest early games there is.
Engaging on a Vladimir right is now is nigh impossible because he has an empowered Q every second Q and if you get hit by that the trade is pretty much lost, he can cast E and spam it how he likes since the cost of it doesn't ramp up like it used to, he can cast his E while in the pool to further completely ignore an engage and also retaliate while doing so + slowing the target to setup for a potential empowered Q. Yes his skillcap rose but the "fun and interactive" aspect has been thrown out of the window. His early game is very respectable thanks to the empowered Q mechanic while his mid to late game is still fantastic.
Tell me the fucking uptime/downtime on the reworked Irelia or Camille.
"Dude you still don't make any sense" I'm almost there just wait.
So now to the counterpicks. These factors led to situations where:
"Alright wait a second Renekton just fucked up his dash so he can't dash away from me after the stun ends... you know what?! It's time to die!!"
"Illaoi just missed her E guess who is engaging on yer ass!"
"Vlad used his pool poorly! This is the opening I needed"
"Is this Maokai seriously trying to farm while I'm right beside him? Are you nuts?!"
Even if you got countered, there were times where you had the ability to show off who was the better player if the enemy fucked up. There were opening you could have used to retaliate on these counterpicks.
But thanks to Riot just abandoning these concept these sitations don't happen anymore. These counterpicks don't have a down or uptime anymore to abuse. They cuck you the entire laning phase and it doesn't matter what they do (unless they SERIOUSLY fuck it up or you are miles ahead in skill level). First of all tanks fucking land even against everything other than Camille and Darius which is total bullshit. They should be have a weak early and strong late but right now they are strong in every phase of the game (haven't seen much tanks top since Conqueror tho so let's see and wait for that).
Champion kits (especially in top where an ebb and flow in battle is extremely important) have just gone out of control. They have no general weakness but only hardcounters, people get here and say the counter to Jayce right now is Gnar so he is balanced.
No Riot, neither Gnar nor Jayce are healthy right now. Having a rock paper scissor minigame top isn't healthy. I couldn't care less if X is the only counter Y because I can't play X all day and would also like to have a chance with A to Q when playing against Y.
THIS is what top laners are complaining about, this rock paper scissor bullshit that have been shoved down their throats. The idea that skill no longer matters if you get countered in laning phase. The idea that you can't evaluate what to do since you are Renekton and have to get an early lead but the enemy is Gnar but he has no opening or down or uptime anywhere at any time in the entire laning phase for you to work with.
And no "just call for the Jungler" shouldn't be a thing to win your lane. You should win your lane when you are better than your opponent and not who picked the right champions.
This effect is very visible in top but not so much in mid / bot lane. In midlane you can just clear the wave all day and not interact with the opponent even once the entire laning phase. And it's very hard to counter 2 champs in the bot lane so the effect is rather small there too.
This is the problem of top... well plus the jungler but that is another story
PopcornBunni1 votesWell, didnt you guys say you wanted a 1v1 fest? That's what happens, the better match up has the upper hand in lane, this isnt exclusive to top. What's exclusive to top is the isolation, but you guys seem to like it because everytime top gets focused by jungler/mid the boards are filled with people crying on how they are getting ganked and cant have their 1v1.
Don't pretend to speak for me. I play tanks top and have no issue playing for the team. Bruisers have been shitting on every tank not named Sion since preseason, and now that they can solo carry on top of it, it's even worse. I'm on your side. I want the team game to be played with the team.
Fuck anyone complaining about mid and jungler impact on top Fuck first tower gold Fuck lane tower defense differences
Ahri Baka2 votesTop can go walk to roam mid , Top can tp bot , that's what I usually do , the problem is , Top laners are mostly melee and can't farm when behind which makes him in a worse situation , and 1 death means a lot and snowball as hell And they can dive you easily , so All I just do it to gank a lane , kill the laner and try to get the first tower with your laner before the enemy's top laner takes the first tower
78932514DEL11 votesYou’re kinda right imo, based on my other account that floats between G2 and P5 where people are better than silver...yeah. There are some picks that are “safe” though:
They can all at least survive a variety of lanes well imo
ValiantKiller1 votes[{quoted}](name=Actor Gin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ePjHGGEm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-03-27T11:37:51.834+0000)
You’re kinda right imo, based on my other account that floats between G2 and P5 where people are better than silver...yeah. There are some picks that are “safe” though:
- Sion (IF Darius is banned)
- Gnar
- Maoki
- Mundo
They can all at least survive a variety of lanes well imo
Don't forgot yorick is safe pick special he one of the few who can stand against illaoi power.
Shukr4n1 votesWht dont u ask teammates,for picking you the champ?