Baron was finally in a reasonable spot... for two patches.

Altiverse·May 30, 2018·114 votes·18,495 views

And now they literally halved its damage... I'm so sad.

56 Comments

RookPusherMay 30, 201836 votes

Agreed. This patch is really bad.

AirKingNeoMay 30, 20182 votes

adcs got murdered hard, I'd bet the boards think this is a good patch

Automated RivenMay 31, 201813 votes

I don't think this is accurate. The worst part about the patch for adc's (and it may end up being bigger then I think) is the huge delay in spike 500 gold for two items I think. However with the return of %total armor pen and the true damage conversion, in addition to easily hitting +20 crit, it shouldnt effect them too hard later on. Next patch with supports getting hit will result in quite a bit of pain tho. I would have liked to see supports (read: the actual problem in botlane) hit first and then evaluating from there.

KoKobotoMay 31, 20185 votes

Since time AD assassins have been a bit weaker because of the bonus armor penetration change to last whisperer. That's gonna be pretty big too... Atm AD assassins rely on dumb stuff like duskblade and electrocute to do the ridiculous damage and now they got this...

Automated RivenMay 31, 20181 votes

This is also true. However, I still don't think the nerf will be that horrible. It's definitely a Nerf, but mostly toward squishy damage. Not overall dps against tanks, (who they should be killing anyhow)

AirKingNeoMay 31, 20181 votes

500? You mean 600.

Spiking earlier is better than having their spike be more powerful.

Imagine if you could buy a 'blow up enemy nexus' for 75,000 gold. It would still barely be used, but it's a massive powerspike.

Automated RivenMay 31, 20181 votes

IE is 200 increase correct? Iirc IE and zeal upgrade is 500 more expensive.

AirKingNeoMay 31, 20181 votes

Zeal is 300 more. IE is 300 more.

Automated RivenMay 31, 20181 votes

Oh my bad then.

Wert the WackyMay 31, 20184 votes

{quoted}

500? You mean 600.

Spiking earlier is better than having their spike be more powerful.

Imagine if you could buy a 'blow up enemy nexus' for 75,000 gold. It would still barely be used, but it's a massive powerspike.

Gangplank laughs with q and klepto

AirKingNeoMay 31, 20181 votes

GP goes Grasp now so people can't kill him....

The Yetii RiderMay 31, 20183 votes

it shouldn't affect them too hard later on

This is dumb. You don't think having a crappy mid game is going to affect them later? Infinity Edge is absolute shit to buy now, you have to stack two BFSs and then sit on 1100 gold. ADCs are going to be trash until they get 3 items, and because they're trash they will have a much harder time actually reaching those three items.

Automated RivenMay 31, 20182 votes

Of course it will. That, however, doesn't mean it's going to 'murder them hard'

SalsonMay 31, 20182 votes

How are they worse than Top or post-change Jungle? Or Supports should Heal&Shield get fixed.

Daddy AntsMay 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Agreed. This patch is really bad.

Indeed.

BattalionMay 30, 201816 votes

He's not supposed to destroy your team, he's supposed to be there to make sure that damaging the enemy team is meaningful; they can't baron afterwards. However, with the increased time to kill baron (increased health) with the addition of increased damage across the entire team, that made the damage over the course of fighting baron significantly higher. Baron shouldn't wipe your team, it should pose a time stall so the enemy can feasible contest it. Wiping or killing players is the job of the enemy team, not neutral camps.

Madsin25May 31, 201850 votes

Lmfao.

Ok bud maybe if this "neutral camp" didn't give game ending stats and buffs I would agree with you.

BattalionMay 31, 20187 votes

I'm not sure what quotations are for, Baron is literally a neutral jungle camp. As for the game ending stats, that's the entire value of Baron.

The point of playing the game is to interact and compete against the enemy team. Of course the enemy team should be punished if they are low, which baron now will still do, that hasn't changed. It is just how low you need to get the enemy team before they can no longer baron is the change.

If you lost the team fight the enemy team should be able to at least fight baron. By raising the HP that increases the time to take baron, which allows your team a possibility of stealing the baron for yourselves.

A buff that is more effort than it is worth is worthless. If it takes a full team at over half HP to fight baron, you might as well take inhibs and push as hard as possible and ignore baron except on the most one-sided team fights.

Giga BaboonMay 30, 201811 votes

Golden snitch, such great design riot.

KalistarcMay 31, 20188 votes

Literally, there was NO REASON to change Baron. Watch teams rush Baron at 20 minutes again without having heals / shields or having snowballed.

D357R0Y3RMay 30, 20186 votes

he's still tanky af since everyone gets 50% damage reduction against him since patch 8.9

so you can't rush it like before that patch

NyarlathοtepMay 31, 20182 votes

No? Only the ones that he auto attacks.

D357R0Y3RMay 31, 20181 votes

nop, they changed that

NyarlathοtepMay 31, 20183 votes

https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-89-notes#patch-epic-monsters

Next time read carefully.

D357R0Y3RMay 31, 20181 votes

"With Baron requiring more time to kill and** spreading its damage around the whole team**," and since everyone gets hit by baron they all get the damage reduction

don't play smart with me, I know what they did and baron takes ages to be killed now you're right about downvoting yourself

NyarlathοtepMay 31, 20182 votes

Spreading its damage around the whole team. Reducing his corruption damage (and by a shittons to be exact), and removing corruptions stack through his abilities is downright stupid. Im totally cool with lowering his atk speed or a bit its general damage. But this? Its too much. They made it easier to kill without nerfing his buff.

Also yeah i downvote myself because i find it stupid to be able to upvote your own comment.

Deez CritsMay 31, 20184 votes

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with you here.

Your quotation is taken out of context. Baron has ALWAYS done AoE damage to those near him. However, the quotation was to emphasize that they were shifting his single target damage to deal more damage to all combatants. This was done because it was too easy to take baron with 1 tank + a strong damage dealer (since the tank would soak up most of the damage before the change).

The change was implemented so that, now, you really do need other teammates there because 1 squishy damage dealer will die before the baron is completed.

TLDR: The functionality of Baron's Gaze did not change, they simply reallocated single target damage to enhance its AoE damage, which it already had. Keep in mind they also buffed its HP in that same patch.

ZephyrDrakeMay 31, 20186 votes

but we can't have an objective that must require teamwork to take! we must make every single objective be Solo-able with little to no risk of danger at any point in time

JbelsMay 30, 20184 votes

Baron is incredibly hard to justify taking in most cases. There's only one good time to take it, and that's when you've created an uneven teamfight advantage by killing people on the other team. And even after you take it, you're forced to back because of how badly it chunks you. Baron IS supposed to be a risky objective, but now it's so risky because of the health buff that it's not worth taking until you know the enemy team won't fuck you over at it for absolutely certain

NyarlathοtepMay 30, 201834 votes

Have you ever thought that made JUST maybe its its damn job to be a very risky objective? I mean ffs its reward its too strong, so it should be equally risky. With this awesome patch, they just made it easier to take, without really adjusting its strengths as a buff. Before it was a win button. But it was a damn risky one. Now its a win button. With no risk. Before the enemy could contest it even if they were behind. Now they cant.

Great FoxMay 31, 20181 votes

{quoted}

Have you ever thought that made JUST maybe its its damn job to be a very risky objective? I mean ffs its reward its too strong, so it should be equally risky. With this awesome patch, they just made it easier to take, without really adjusting its strengths as a buff. Before it was a win button. But it was a damn risky one. Now its a win button. With no risk. Before the enemy could contest it even if they were behind. Now they cant.

It's reward isn't that strong.

You get a buff to minions you're near. That's it. It doesn't provide any other bonuses.

NyarlathοtepMay 31, 20183 votes

It isnt? What? Do we even play the same game? The buff it provides to minions is insane. Melee ones are nigh impossible to kill as mage, and after 40 mins caster ones are too. You cant defend a push when minions are empowered. And dont get me started on the cannon ones.

LemurKickMay 31, 20184 votes

Empowered back? Bonus AD and AP? Have you ever actually read the buff?

KarunamonJun 1, 20184 votes

You get a buff to minions you're near. That's it. It doesn't provide any other bonuses.

Are you 'avin a giggle, m8?

https://i.imgur.com/UvTA7Mm.png

ThefrostyvikingMay 31, 20182 votes

{quoted}

Baron is incredibly hard to justify taking in most cases. There's only one good time to take it, and that's when you've created an uneven teamfight advantage by killing people on the other team. And even after you take it, you're forced to back because of how badly it chunks you. Baron IS supposed to be a risky objective, but now it's so risky because of the health buff that it's not worth taking until you know the enemy team won't fuck you over at it for absolutely certain

Not at all really, even scarra said that he thinks games are decided the moment either team takes Baron and it can happen as soon as it spawns.

He posted a discussion video where he mentioned it somewhere, i saw a link to it on the boards and i highly recommend it.

sKz Aaron DMay 31, 20182 votes

I agree with the premise, but not the conclusion you appear to reach.

Baron is supposed to be game changing, and it's supposed to be hard. But the damage increase baron gained last patch made it suicidal to attempt baron without everyone on the enemy team dead or unable to contest. It stopped being an objective to play around and became, "This is what we do if we can't win the game while all 5 of them are dead and we still have health bars."

ISeeDumbPeopleMay 31, 20184 votes

I thought the goal was to make it more epic and not a 20 min objective... still feel like I barely have time to get there when a team decides to baron but at least I could usually kill someone before they ran or killed me... Looks like that won't happen anymore.

Leto GTMay 31, 20181 votes

Baron has always been about helping to close games, especially if you have no tanks to dive turrets. So yes it is a 20 min objective aswell. Besides, they didn't nerf his hp so it still takes as long to kill it.

Akali is SO HOTMay 31, 20183 votes

Baron takes a lot longer to kill now so he shouldn't be doing massive damage to your team

NecrosideMay 31, 20186 votes

He should if its a 20 minute baron.

Usernamehere1235May 31, 20183 votes

I personally believe that the old baron was far too punishing, and disproportionately hurt split pushers.

There were a few problems. The first is that the baron changes created an environment where actually just taking baron while the enemy is around is just about impossible. The odds that you'll lose the ensuing fight are so high that it's effectively pointless to try. The only viable option is to play around vision and get a pick; a fine option, of course. But it's fairly binary. If the enemy team can fight you even after you get the baron, you will lose.

The second issue has to do with top lane split pushers, primarily. But this also applies to other split pushers. One of the major advantages that a split pusher can bring to a team is drawing pressure to a lane. If I'm playing Fiora and I'm insanely strong, I ought to pressure my lane and force two people into my lane. Let's say that the mid laner and top laner come to fight me. I might die 1v2, but under normal circumstances my team would secure baron. The baron changes make this far more difficult to accomplish; because despite the fact that your split pusher has drawn two players to the opposite side of the map, you will most likely lose 4v3 on the baron. This makes split pushing far more difficult, because drawing pressure doesn't necessarily equate to a secured baron.

KarunamonMay 31, 20185 votes

The first is that the baron changes created an environment where actually just taking baron while the enemy is around is just about impossible.

THAT IS THE WHOLE POINT. You should not be trying baron unless most of the enemy team is either in botlane or just got aced. Nobody's going to bother with it when the other team can swoop in with a smite and steal the last hit.

ModCaptainMårvelousMay 31, 20181 votes

Well, yes and no.

Baron baits are a very real thing to force engagements/fights. There are also risky situations where they bet on a 50/50 smite to help close out the game. Also situations where you trigger baron to make it hit the nearby enemy. It's fringe cases, sure, but some pretty important cases imo.

Usernamehere1235Jun 1, 20181 votes

In my opinion, both in solo queue and in competitive play, the baron dances and fights are often the most exciting portion of the game.

I can't tell you how many times I've flipped my shit when I watch my favorite team desperately trying to rush the baron while the enemy team comes and is JUST about to fight them. The smite fights are insanely hypey, and that's something that I don't personally think should be removed from the game outright.

I want to see baron as a more contestable objective, because I think that at Gnashor's core, that's what it's meant to do. I don't think that neutral epics are designed to be taken solely after a fight, but rather an objective to be taken when your team sees an opportunity; regardless of whether or not the enemy team is alive.

If every baron dance results in a teamfight, then that limits diversity in strategy, which I'm opposed to.

remakoroMay 31, 20183 votes

Even after those changes i had teams taking it with 2 or 3 people in some mins after it spawned. What the fuck is this shit about his damage? If you can take it - you do. If you dont deserve it - then getting obliterated is a reasonable result. Cuz you made wrong call. Get consequences for it.

Done25May 31, 20182 votes

I approve of the changes tbh. He was too quickly killed before, but all that extra health means the attacking team took a lot more damage over the course of the fight. Trying to take Baron without specific high dps champs on your team usually resulted in taking a lot of damage. All the enemy team had to do was show up and win with Baron's help.

WolfeurMay 31, 20181 votes

VORACIOUS CORROSION: Baron Nashor's basic attacks apply a debuff that reduces the target's armor and magic resistance by 0.5, stacking up to 100 times for a total of 50 maximum reduction.

VOID CORRUPTION: Baron Nashor's basic attacks deals 60 (+ 20% AD) bonus magic damage. This can occur every 0.75 seconds. This also applies a stack of Voracious Corrosion to the nearest champion with the lowest number of Voracious Corrosion stacks.

Baron's damage increases exponentially with time. With Baron health up quite substancially, that was a lot of damage going with it, since it took longer to kill. Plus, it also means increasing the damage of the enemy team, so Baron HAD to deal less damage by itself.

There are a lot of details that most people don't know about, or don't take into account when pseudo-theoricrafting the changes. The game is very complex, and the slightest change can destabilize the balance way more heavily than it looks.