What's wrong with this game, summarized in 1 second

Altiverse·Jun 17, 2018·96 votes·20,535 views

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h11oHgfLc6c

Kayn is 5/3 and 1 level above me. Should've known not to get 1 meter out of base when playing against a so-very-fed 5/3 assassin. /s

182 Comments

HayaishiJun 17, 201858 votes

Lmao lose over half HP in one ability.

Very balanced.

AirKingNeoJun 17, 20186 votes

build any ounce of armor and it drops to 20%

not joking

HayaishiJun 17, 201822 votes

{quoted}

build any ounce of armor and it drops to 20%

not joking

Lol k what game are you playing.

You think 30 armor would've helped her survive when he did all her HP in 1 sec?

AirKingNeoJun 17, 20182 votes

Yes, because Kayn's passive bonus damage is increased after mitigation.

ĘsdeathJun 17, 20186 votes

Do you have any idea of the words you just wrote?

Hayaishi literally mentioned one ability - So yes, that's what it means - One ability dropped her HP by half, and then you come here talking about Kayn's passive?

Even if we were to consider Kayn's passive, it would make no sense + 45 armor is worthless against any AD. You better off playing Malphite if you actually wish to gather enough defensive stats to fight any AD (and even then ...)

NyanDiamondJun 17, 20183 votes

no it makes sense, as basically the 20% reduced damage from that 45 armor is being applied twice, once for the main damage, then because passive is based on the post-mitigated damage (not actual numbers below) Base damage 100: no reduction: 100+20% of 100 (kayn passive increase [not actual numbers])= 120

20% reduction: 80+20% of 80=96

Total damage reduction from 45 armor: 34 damage per 120 points of damage, and as we saw here, with taliyah being around 1500's, that's a total of 425 damage ignored, slightly less than a third of her estimated health, and this isn't including the extra mr reduction to his passive as it is magic damage.

P.S. this is all percentages, meaning a doubling in damage wouldn't change anything, even if it was 240 damage, it would still be 34 damage reduction per 120 damage

P.P.S. lethality also wouldn't change this as it removes a base amount of armor, meaning zhonya's still gives 45 armor/20% damage reduction, however the last whisper line and any percentage armor pen WILL have an effect on the numbers

again these are all hypothetical numbers to just show how much of an impact 45 armor can have at its simplest level (using simple numbers)

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20188 votes

{quoted}

Lol k what game are you playing.

You think 30 armor would've helped her survive when he did all her HP in 1 sec?

So check this out level 12 Taliyah has about 20 armor vs Kayns lethality at that point in the game. Increasing armor by 30 would reduce the damage she takes by 16%. Lets says she went item 3802 item 3047 item 3157 instead of the build the OP went. She would've take 28% less damage +12% less. Add in Resolve secondary because she was facing a triple assassin+irelia comp and suddenly she is at 40%hp even when full combo'd minus R. Seems good to me.

TempName54846Jun 17, 201816 votes

gets hit by 2 basic abilities

full combo'd

EDIT: after closer inspection and slowing down the video its actually an auto attack + 1 basic ability

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20188 votes

{quoted}

gets hit by 2 basic abilities

Electrocute Passive: Basic attacks and abilities generate stacks on enemy champions hit, up to one per attack or cast. Applying 3 stacks to a target within a 3 second period causes them to be struck by lightning

That Kayn must be haxing then cause he proced Electrocute. /s

Kayn buffered his W when he wasn't in vision so Taliyah, didn't see the visual for it but got hit by it, Kayn AA, Kayn Qed hit the dash portion of it then the slash portion of his Q. That's his full combo minus R.

Tomoe GozenJun 17, 20187 votes

{quoted}

Lmao lose over half HP in one ability.

Very balanced.

It's not one ability. He used his Q and W, AA'd once, Duskblade procced and then Electrocute. Furthermore, that's Shadow Kayn who has very easy time killing squishies because he's the Lethality user.

TempName54846Jun 17, 20186 votes

at no point was the taliyah hit by a kayn W, slow the video down to 0,25 and you will see for yourself

NyanDiamondJun 17, 20184 votes

in the wall, it doesn't show its animation/outline (plus something else hit her to proc electrocute and unless duskblade counts as a seperate hit, he had to use his w in the wall

FedoranJun 17, 20187 votes

W was casted in the wall -> no animation shown

Edit: Kayn's passive does not count as a separate hit. Try it in practice tool

It is indisputable that Taliyah was hit with Kayn W.

(also deleted my reply below and added this edit for the sake of condensing)

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20184 votes

{quoted}

at no point was the taliyah hit by a kayn W, slow the video down to 0,25 and you will see for yourself

YES SHE WAS. Kayn W is channeled, but blue Kayn can cast it while moving. He buffers when he is out of vision so you never see the visual similar to Sion's Q, but it was there and Taliyah did get hit by it. If Taliyah didn't get hit by it why would electrocute proc?

AR URFJun 17, 201833 votes

https://vimeo.com/268230762

Akali is SO HOTJun 17, 201816 votes

They even had a ward in the bush. That is one of the most Bronze plays I have ever seen.

NubulasJun 17, 20186 votes

looks balanced to me

MarshbouyJun 17, 201813 votes

That's straight out of a "wood tier compilation" video.

NyanDiamondJun 17, 20183 votes

thats truely looks balanced, the enemy team even knew he was in there, and kayn has very high aoe damage. they even lined up.

bbQsauçeJun 17, 201833 votes

[deleted]

AltiverseJun 17, 20187 votes

Sorry, I tried to keep the post short to support the "1sec summarize" title. Marshbouy commented below with some useful information regarding this.

AR URFJun 17, 20184 votes

[deleted]

SpecterVonBarenJun 17, 20184 votes

As an autistic person I don't see how someone can "have" autism about something.

AR URFJun 17, 20182 votes

[deleted]

SpecterVonBarenJun 17, 20183 votes

Maybe you should actually learn about autism then if that's something you think is fact.

BigFBearJun 17, 201811 votes

{quoted}

No context provided aside from he was 5/3 and 1 level above you. Did you build any armor at all? How much CS did you have? How many towers did they take? How much overall gold did he have compared to you? What did he build? What did you build?

You can see it at the end: 3 vs 2 towers for enemy team 43k Gold vs 41k Gold for enemy team.

So... not THAT much of a lead.

And i never see squishy mages building armor o_O Especially not after 20 minutes in the game.

I bet Kayn had Stormrazor. Fucking op item.

Cait MainJun 17, 20182 votes

Mages can easily buy defensive ap items like zhonyas, roa, liandry's, Rylais, etc. They were 5k behind Kayn did not have storm razor A level lead on jg vs mid means she was pretty behind as mid gets more exp Assassins use levels more effectively than mages Kayn went blue form so he had about 35% more damage She positioned next to a wall vs an assassin who doesn't use his ult as a mandatory part of his combo and can walk through walls.

And finally, Kayn has had this damage since release and has actually been nerfed. The issue is she didn't punish his weak point which is his god awful early game. This is like complaining that a late game vayne can burst a tank. The problem isn't League, it's your fingers. Go and practice.

EchostormxxJun 17, 20184 votes

[{quoted}](name=Cait Main,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J8hId99B,comment-id=000600020001,timestamp=2018-06-17T15:40:50.543+0000)

Mages can easily buy defensive ap items like zhonyas, roa, liandry's, Rylais, etc. They were 5k behind Kayn did not have storm razor A level lead on jg vs mid means she was pretty behind as mid gets more exp Assassins use levels more effectively than mages Kayn went blue form so he had about 35% more damage She positioned next to a wall vs an assassin who doesn't use his ult as a mandatory part of his combo and can walk through walls.

And finally, Kayn has had this damage since release and has actually been nerfed. The issue is she didn't punish his weak point which is his god awful early game. This is like complaining that a late game vayne can burst a tank. The problem isn't League, it's your fingers. Go and practice.

How can the mid laner punish the jungler early? Isn't that their jungler's job? Also, they bought zhonyas, and the rest of the mage items don't provide any defensive value against Kayn. They're just health and AP.

SpencerJun 17, 201828 votes

Why in all that is fucking holy are people considering 5/3 fed? That's almost a statement of the problem right there...

Kanzaki RankoJun 17, 201815 votes

[deleted]

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20185 votes

[{quoted}](name=Boeing 727,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=J8hId99B,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-06-17T10:25:56.174+0000)

Because if you weren't silver you'd understand why KDA isn't the only thing that determines whether or not you're fed or strong.

I'm silver and i knew Kayn was massively ahead in CS just because of the levels. /feelsgoodman

MarshbouyJun 17, 201816 votes

I'm digging through the Kayn's op.gg for the match and OP's. This is what I've found

Gold disparity was around 1.8k at the moment of OP's death, favoring the kayn Kayn had just maxed out his Q Kayn's build was item 3117 item 1400 item 3147 item 1036 Op's build was item 1056 item 3030 item 3020 item 1026 item 1028 item 1052 OP had no runes that offered defenses.

Assassin burst def needs to be toned down, but it's not like OP had any defensive stats to speak of. OP was also behind at least half an item, maybe more. It's not as completely insane as it looks at first glance, but it's still a bit on the ridiculous side.

AltiverseJun 17, 20188 votes

Hey, thanks for doing this work! You really didn't have to. I just tried to keep the post short to support the "1sec summarize" title :/

At any rate, no I wouldn't at all complain about how an Assassin that had just finished jg item+duskblade can oneshot a squishy that has nothing but a Ruby Crystal for defense. My point though, as shown in this video... is how he does that with nothing but a single ability and autoattack, which is basically 50% of his total burst potential.

And sadly, it has nothing to do with Kayn or Shadow Assassin. half of the meta champions are capable of doing exactly this. In fact, that very game I had an Eve one shotting me multiple times with E+Q (first cast) in an even shorter time than the Kayn in this video. I didn't choose these moments though, as she actually was reasonably fed and I wanted to be fair. As I said numerous times on other comments though, I don't see how a 5/3 Kayn is "reasonably fed" enough to oneshot me with a Q+auto, and that's exactly why I chose this example.

Sp33d Zer0Jun 17, 20185 votes

If you look really carefully and go frame by frame you can actually see his w casted as well, meaning his w clipped you from in the wall. You can also see he pros thunderlords which takes 3 different damage sources before the second half of his q

WimbledofyJun 17, 20183 votes

I watched the replay and kayn definitely used W. Idk why OP didn't check, since you can completely see what abilities get cast in spectator mode. You can see the replay on leaguegraphs.

WimbledofyJun 17, 20182 votes

You have complete access to the spectator mode which is what you used to record the video, why didn't you check to see if he used his W? Because he did use it.

charge attackJun 17, 20182 votes

His Q + W + auto attack that procs dusk and passive is 100% of his burst potential. His ult does almost no damage, but simply lets him refresh his cooldowns.

Sire HippingtonJun 17, 20182 votes

...but simply lets him refresh his cooldowns.

This is exactly where his burat comes(or should come from), his ult has decent damage on it's own, refreshes the passive amp, gives another duskblade proc and atleast grants another Q at 40% cdr, which is all part of his full combo and without much the target can do as he#s untargetable while sitting on top of them for the time. It's like saying Zeds ult does almost no damage as it only has 100% total ad and that's it if used with no followup.

ZapMyHeartJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

I'm digging through the Kayn's op.gg for the match and OP's. This is what I've found

Gold disparity was around 1.8k at the moment of OP's death, favoring the kayn Kayn had just maxed out his Q Kayn's build was Op's build was OP had no runes that offered defenses.

Assassin burst def needs to be toned down, but it's not like OP had any defensive stats to speak of. OP was also behind at least half an item, maybe more. It's not as completely insane as it looks at first glance, but it's still a bit on the ridiculous side.

Technically, HP is considered "defense" and GLP and the Ruby Crystal added to the HP pool. Yet the damage ripped out ~90% of the lifebar pretty much instantly, even with extra life.

At least that's what AD mains like to point out to mage mains who complain about the lack of Def items for AP.

MarshbouyJun 17, 20183 votes

GLP does not provide HP

ZapMyHeartJun 17, 20182 votes

{quoted}

GLP does not provide HP

Thanks for the catch. I spaced out on Sapphire vs Ruby Crystal.

[sg-soraka]

MarshbouyJun 17, 20182 votes

no biggie, the build path was changed only a few patches ago and the items stats were too .

Teridax68Jun 17, 201814 votes

What bothers me about a lot of the discussion in the comments is that there's this prevalent mentality of finding excuses for an event that should not be happening at all: sure, Kayn had a gold/XP lead, he's an assassin and Taliyah, a squishy mage, didn't itemize into resists, and the Taliyah player also made the mistake of standing too close to a wall. All of that should put the Taliyah at a disadvantage. What it does not justify, however, is one champion being able to kill another from literally full health, in literally a fraction of a second, with literally two hits. No matter how one chooses to frame this, this is not fun or interactive gameplay.

Part of the toxicity in League comes from the fact that not only this kind of situation happens (and it's been happening increasingly often), but that too many players on top of that are more ready to blame the victim, and look for excuses to justify the situation to themselves, than they are to ask themselves whether this is truly a fun and worthwhile thing to have in a videogame. At the end of the day, League is a game, and anyone playing it should come out of it feeling like they had a worthwhile experience. Incidents like the above, however, are precisely the kind that make League feel detrimental to the player's enjoyment overall, a fact even Riot have admitted to when they've said multiple times how bad it feels to lose. This is the absolute last thing one would want from a video game, and generally when an entertainment product does this, most players put it down, usually forever, and play something else. If nothing else, League protects itself by demanding a huge time investment from its players, which is why many still don't quit even if they've had a consistently negative experience over a longer period of time. Even with this, though, a lot of players are burning out, and this type of experience is one of the causes. Instead of trying to look for reasons to blame one side over the other, it might be more helpful if we tried looking for a healthy medium, one where players get to receive clear indications for when they're playing well or poorly, but also one where the environment is more fun overall, and where players don't simply lose 20-30 minutes of their time because they clicked on the wrong pixel, or didn't memorize dozens of pages of patch notes and play guides.

BestPudgeNAJun 17, 20183 votes

{quoted}

literally two hits.

EXPLAIN THE ELECTROCUTE PROC THEN. SHE WAS HIT 4 TIMES. AA+W+BOTH ENDS OF THE Q.

You don't even know what happened how are you gonna talk about theory of how it should be.

SpaghettiVaseJun 18, 20182 votes

You are part of the reason league is in the shitcan

GodhriJun 17, 201811 votes

I get that Damage is ridiculous right now overall, but he's an assassin... He's supposed to be able to wipe you out if he catches you off guard which he clearly did. Not to mention he is super fed.

AltiverseJun 17, 201853 votes

"Catches me off guard". Yeah that 0.3sec heads-up I had was quite a lot of room to retaliate there.

Sire HippingtonJun 17, 201832 votes

If he would use his full combo, sure, but it was AA+Q and maybe a W hidden in the wall, but no ult or summoner commited for a 100-0 burst. There is a difference between a high kill threat that an asssasin should have vs squishys and something like that.

Though it's important to note that this is not a kayne balance issue, but the cause of overall damage creep. If thalia was ahead like him and cought him in her W+E+Q comob, he'd probably die just as fast.

GodhriJun 17, 20182 votes

You're supporting half my point. Moreover, he's an assassin who was fed. We don't even know how far behind in gold OP was. I just don't think it is completely unjustified that OP got caught cause of careless play and dies nearly instantly to an assassin. I'd understand if it was a non-assassin doing it, but it wasn't. The distinction here cannot just be discarded.

A fed assassin who is clearly well ahead should be able to virtually instant kill a squishy mage who is out of position and caught off guard. If she saw him coming, it would have been avoidable.

xelakerJun 17, 201814 votes

{quoted}

You're supporting half my point. Moreover, he's an assassin who was fed. We don't even know how far behind in gold OP was. I just don't think it is completely unjustified that OP got caught cause of careless play and dies nearly instantly to an assassin. I'd understand if it was a non-assassin doing it, but it wasn't. The distinction here cannot just be discarded.

A fed assassin who is clearly well ahead should be able to virtually instant kill a squishy mage who is out of position and caught off guard. If she saw him coming, it would have been avoidable.

being 5/3 sure wasn't fed back in my day :/