Giving a champion the strongest early game damage in his class then specifically giving him a mechanic that makes him snowball hard as fuck while also being a class (ADC) that by nature snowballs extremely hard with gold/items to begin with is a terrible design?
Wildstyle37 votesDraven himself is a fine design, I think its deaths dance that makes him so strong.
Eedat49 votesbut he doesnt even need DD to be strong.
For example, DD on Draven seems to be meta on NA and EU, but if you take a look at the Korean server they almost always build BT over DD on him and achieve similar results
There is for sure a problem with him outside of one item.
undesirable team8 votesbut he doesnt even need DD to be strong.
For example, DD on Draven seems to be metaon NA and EU, but if you take a look at the Korean server they almost always build BT or DD on him and achieve similar results
There is for sure a problem with him outside of one item.
explains why draven has been a problem for the past 1 patch o wait dd got buffed and draven counters got nerfed xd
Eedat36 votesI think it started when Riot buffed him randomly on 7.1 when he was already in a pretty good spot
Wildstyle3 votesI agree that the buff was a bit unnecessary but in all honesty I tend to win against Draven more often that not.
IcyPepper8 votesAn anecdote is only a single component of a larger set of data. It's fine for forming an opinion, but it doesn't really prove anything.
Gelmous2 votesand it took 6 months for everyone to realize that ?
Danjeng16 votesBT provides damage, lifesteal and a defensive passive (shield). It is quite similar to DD in this respect. I think that granting defense or sustain that scales off offensive stats will prove difficult to balance. I'm talking about lifesteal. Draven with lifesteal can effectively drain tank better than Vladimir.
Burst damage is complained about a lot, but without it, ADC's like Draven could quite literally 1v3, as they would quickly heal up damage which they receive. On the other hand, an actual tank stat, health regen, is hardly noticeable when compared to lifesteal and is being phased out into a support stat.
I just think lifesteal is an extremely frustrating mechanic to play against when it's so powerful that 4 auto attacks can restore a low ADC to full HP, rendering previous attempts to damage said ADC useless.
Kingdom Corn4 votesDraven himself is a fine design, I think its deaths dance that makes him so strong.
Very true imo
LegacyDAP4 votesExcept it's not because he has the highest win rate tied with Twitch in his role in Korea, and they build BT over DD in Korea.
Aimléss2 votesDraven has always been too good early for how good he is late. If you know what you're doing on him you can still be super effective late game with the guy. Wth is it fair to have such a great late game on a champ who's early/mid game is the best in the role? While some champs gotta suffer soooo much early just to be good late.
IceKingChernobog2 votesDraven himself is a fine design, I think its deaths dance that makes him so strong.
that and that random Q buff they gave him a few patches back.
Bronze II Yasuo 19 votesFucking thank you.
I said that exact same thing and get -8 downvotes..
Unpaladin2 votes"Draven is designed in a horrible fashion" "b-but it's okay since he has an ability that does a thing tho"
Whoa, those are some quality responses. I guess Fiora, Darius and Camille are actually trash because having to move around in a certain fashion to deal damage is so limiting. Nevermind the player's mastery and the champion being strong enough to walk circles around 90% of the roster, it's still too hard!
kasfas6 votesSo, 8 upvotes?
Bronze II Yasuo 3 votesI don't give a fuck about up votes and down votes really, but I just wanted to use this as an example of how stupid this community can be.
pclvkh2 votesYou're in bronze 2. Players don't start attack moving until high silver, even then they still fuck it up. Bronze and silver dravens barely ever catch axes unless they happen to land on them. I think it is really retarded that you're saying stuff is broken without having a basic understanding of the game. I see this shit all the time "draven is so fucking broken, nerf him PLEASE!" And every single time I look up the OP's op.gg they are in extremely low elo. Draven isn't busted, death's dance is. Draven spanks low elo garbage because all you do is right click each other and wait to see who dies first, obviously draven will win if he has any axes spinning.
PunisherJBY2 votesI think it's stupid when you discredit someone's opinion/view on things because they are "low elo". Just because someone doesn't have the in game mechanics you do does not mean they do not understand the game and champ strengths/what is overpowered. But hey continue discrediting the individual instead of arguing the point and just attack the person.
FancyKiwi19 votesI love how no one said a word about Draven for years but Riot buffs an item that makes him insanely strong and suddenly he's horribly designed and needs nerfs and everything. It couldn't possible be the item that even some Jhin players build first that is making him strong.
Arakadia2 votesI'm certain many people have complained about Draven for years, just not the majority of the boards. It's just now people have focused on how badly designed he is.
Standgrounding2 votes
it's op on any adc idk why is being complained about...
Unpaladin4 votesComplaints coming out of nowhere is what the Gameplay Board is all about, but I'd argue it is reasonable for Draven balance discussion to show up so suddenly. Draven puts out constant threat of becoming FOTM in almost every patch, and it finally happened because he received both a direct buff and an item buff.
Why do you think there were threads on these Boards every few weeks asking why he doesn't become a favorable pick? You know, after those patches that buffed AD during an ADC-focused high damage meta. Was it because they wanted him to be strong, or because they were scared of him coming out and fucking up game balance?
No one spoke about his kit's balance because with Draven the only topic that came to mind was whether or not he is viable. If he was actually discussed properly the "high skillcap" meme would be exposed for what it is -- something that warps players' perception of the kit's output and leads players to not question its issues.
Add to that how he isn't played over other picks in a role that's dominated by certain champions constantly, and you've got a champion that everyone forgets until it's too late.
Makior729 votesnot saying I wouldn't like to see dravens damage a bit reduced, but he has counter play, primarily during laning phase. You know exactly where his axe is going to fall, so you know where to put your cc and then burst him while in lane. Yes he can just opt to drop an axe to avoid cc, but if he does that enough times he blows through his mana pretty quick.
PrinceOfStorms5 votesBut after he finishes Death's Dance and PD he's a tank that does absurd damage.
Sqkerg14 votes"Tank" is a strong word for a two item adc.
GayFluffyUnicorn2 votesSooo dravens counterplay is during his strongest phase of the game, the early game/laning phase? Besides, it's not that easy. Draven can control where his axe will fall, going in so deep in an attempt to try to CC him can easily result in a kill for him but somehow you just manage to not mention he has a support as well.
nice table2 votesi kind of want to know what CC is in bot lane that costs less mana than a draven axe.
Marshbouy9 votesWell if you list all of his strengths and "forget" to mention that his damage is extremely telegraphed, then yes, it's unhealthy.
Arakadia3 votesIt's telegraphed but not at all delayed.
hallfro2 votesIt's delayed by his slow attack speed. He trades consistent, moderate damage for slower burst damage.
nice table2 votesso like ... every other adcs damage?
Big Lincoln8 votesi agree bring back bleed
Sire Hippington6 votesI think the core issue is that ADC by nature scale insanely well into lategame, which makes it near impossible to have an earlygame focused adc in a balanced spot. Lucian for example has a similar issue, whene ever he's somewhat strong, he instantly gets overbearing because he dominates early and doesn't really fall of later.
Also, Dravens Passive is just poor bullshit, even if you can prevent him from dominateing ealry, all he needs is a single kill to get an insane lead.
Flubdy6 votes Nah, you're just salty and tilted that a Draven completely dumpstered you.
Sir Fuzzi5 votesDidn't the consensus turn out to be that he only takes off so hard with Death's Dance?
was bout to suggest picking draven because he can knock draven away from axes. sorry man maybe you're right after all
Naono1 votesI have played against good bit of good draven's and I believe that's the case. with Death's Dance he sustains a lot. Like one or two axe and he's back up almost full health if you ever got the chance to get few hits in.
I don't really want DD to be nerf since it's a good item, it's just that makes one hell of team.
Sir Fuzzi3 votesI am 6000% on top of 'ranged only/melee only' adjustments that limit effectiveness where needed. Range should be part of the advantage itself, and if it's not then maybe we need to consider why.
Eedat5 votesSir Fuzzi2 votesKorea has a lot of funny patterns and my favourite is Morde.
I think the game's play evolved differently there. There might also be more people who take the game more seriously, since lackadaisical attitude and general avoidance of accountability or responsibility are pretty much top contributors to shitty League games.
I'm not sure what to make of the Korean statistics because I'm not sure how much is different and how much is the same. Does their average game look different than ours?
AwesomeGuyDj2 votesKorea takes gaming very seriously. Apparently in games like overwatch hacking is prevalent in Korea because being a diamond is like a social status.
obsesse5 votesOkay, here's how to shut down Draven 101.
Without Q - Spinning Axe, Draven's damage is garbage. If you can properly play around this CD and mechanic of catching axes, Draven is much easier to deal with.
Because of the point above, Draven struggles heavily against reliable CC. Many supports can punish aggressive Dravens for catching axes in your face while trading, while others can prevent him from catching axes at all, simultaneously reducing his damage output greatly.
Heavy sustain lanes, and greater range, can outsustain Draven's mana pool. Champions like Caitlyn, Jinx, and Ashe can trade well from a distance while typically all running Warlord's Bloodlust, forcing Draven to epend more mana during trades for mobility. These champions also have decent zone control, making harder to do Draven things.
Remember, short trades (1-2 autos) will almost always be in Draven's favor, but extended trades/kiting will wear down any Draven.
Finally, Draven has to get a kill to cash in on stacks. If you force extended laning while not handing over first blood, you completely negate the entire reason behind the Draven pick.
He has a good win rate but an extremely low pick rate (on NA, at least). Caitlyn has a very, very high pick rate while maintaining a win rate within 1% of Draven.
Tribbles Foxfolk4 votesI've always found Draven irritating. I'm glad he's getting a bloody good smacking around on the Boards, because I'm just tired of him. Even when his pickrate was garbage, I found his design was one of the most annoying ever to play against.
ChaoticPinecone4 votesDraven, by himself, his not unhealthy.
This is actually a problem I see with the Boards a lot. The complaints are too short sighted. Blind Pick in ranked had its problems, but with pick order there was at least some solution to the problem (even if it wasnt perfect). But there were ton of complaints about not having role selection in Ranked - when it was implemented, people complained that Secondary Supports and Fill got you support 99% of the time. So that complaint was addressed through autofill - but then autofill is the problem.
In this case, its the support. Earlygame bot pressure is most often determined by the support. Draven, though strong early, still falls under the ADC problem in lane - having to juggle CS, harass, and dodging abilities of 2 champions with only 1 potion. Strong harassing supports can punish a Draven and keep him in line for the early part of the game while he catches axes, get your ADC enough farm to buy items, then transition into teamfights where Draven's auto-attack reliant, single-target damage becomes a liability. But people complained about the strength of those supports like Brand or Zyra. Well, when you nerf those supports, you have to realize that ADCs who can take over a lane (Draven) or ADCs that arent so good at laning but scale super well (Twitch) are going to get indirectly buffed.
StoryDuck4 votes is the real issue. He wasn't too bad until this. They need to fix Death's Dance as an item and then he should be back to normal as being a mid tier ADC.
PointBlankPeriod4 votesHe's also #1 insanely hard to play (not considering DD), #2 high risk high reward (snowball or feed) #3 Is outranged by most adc's with no alternate damage source. So people saying draven is op and not DD are the same people saying yasuo needs to be nerfed into the ground when really they don't know how to play against him
Tobias Brackner2 votesHe has garbage range and no escapes.
Respect him in lane and let your assassin/mage deal with him.
Any Bruiser you have can also stick to him well if you have CC.
SkZ DoPe2 voteshe is a must ban for me atm, I can't stand laning against him
Guy Fox Teemo2 votesNo; No I don't Draven is probably one of the most fun, and most fair to play against ADC, his attacks are extremely telegraphed to the point where you know where he's going to walk every time. And he must catch his axes to keep up damage.
The only reason he's a bit stupid right now is because of Death Dance, which is pretty ridiculously strong atm.
Im Ay Boss2 votesAnother clown who probably got smashed by Draven and is making a shit thread. "Terrible design?" lmao Draven is one of the most predictable champions in the game. He trades his damage for being so predictable. Learn how to aim your skill shots and force him to drop axes and maybe you'll have some success in beating him. DD should get nerfed but funny how no one ever complained about draven being broken months ago until DD became strong.
